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I'm quite partial to the power of the s600, nevermind the ease of increasing power with turbos.
Are they generally problematic? We do our own work, and the basic maintenance parts do not seem outrageous.
More complicated in what way? They all seem to have endless amenities, which always pose a complication as the miles go up... But are there any points specific to the s600 that are prone to commonly fail?
The V12s are normally pretty solid, but the coil packs can be an expensive repair if they haven't been done already at some point.
The main cost/maintenance difference in a 600 is the ABC suspension, which is more costly to repair and more failure prone than the airmatic available in the lesser engine cars.
Huge headache. If you are sane, unlike me, then I would go with the S430 or S500. The S600 is way to expensive to maintain and when something breaks, it is a nightmare/disaster (ex. coil packs, abc suspension)
Even though you do your own work so labor costs don't matter, I still wouldn't recommend it because the part prices are outrageous for the S600. $1,200 for coil packs on one bank, and they are an extremely common failure item. Now imagine dealing with two failing coil packs. They are not like normal coil packs on normal cars where each cylinder has its own coil pack that costs ~$30. If and when your coil pack fails (inevitable & common), you must buy it for the whole cylinder bank when only one or two cylinders start to misfire on one bank.
Oh yeah not to mention the ABC suspension on top of that, which also is a really common failure item and has ridiculously priced parts and you can not work on the ABC suspension yourself unless you are a master Mercedes mechanic (or else you will just break more things in the suspension system).
Please, just go with the S430 or S500. If you really like the S600 and are committed to buying it, then go for it. They are amazing machines when in proper working order. Be warned though, because it is a huge risk. There is just far too much involvement required to have them working perfectly.
If the ABC system becomes too problematic, can it be removed/disabled?
I know the airbag systems in the cars can be changed out for coilovers... Will swapping those in disable the ABC system? Since I'm assuming some sensors necessary would no longer be there?
I've seen the massive coil packs, those seem to be our biggest point of concern, but not a deal breaker. What is the average lifespan of the coil packs?
Doing a little more reading on the coil pack issues, looks like, according to this guy, the issue is broken wiring (as he said there doesn't look like any other components of it could really go wrong).
So, simple soldering would be able to repair them, instead of needing to replace them at thousands of dollars for new units.
That is a huge relief, and something we can easily do ourselves.
Mercedes SL63 AMG; Mercedes E63 AMG S 4matic; Mercedes C43 AMG; Mercedes S Class, Mercedes GLK
I've seen this question asked more than a dozen times - the answer from the board is always the same - no don't do it!
The response from the OP is almost always the same - they do it!
In most cases the car is purchased, OP loves it because of the power and the amazing ride. Things break, OP fixes it and continues to enjoy their car.
Practically speaking, moving from an ML to an S Class as a family hauler - the trunk on the S is somewhat small because of where the gas tank is and the S600 doesn't have 4 wheel drive, if either of these items are important to you.
After looking into the common fail points more, they really aren't overwhelming to repair or replace if needed.
The engine seems stout from my reading, and that is the biggest ticket item on the list.
A roof rack can always be added if the trunk space doesn't cut it.
We are keeping the ML, not replacing it (so, in bad weather, we have the awd capabilities).
Our other cars are not so kid friendly, and we really need a secondary car that we all could fit in and satisfy my driver enthusiast itch at the same time. This seemed to check all categories.
The S600 has a couple of weak spots as mentioned above.
But, if you really can do your own work, then it's do-able. I bought my car in 2012 with 59,000 on it and it has 86,000 on it now. I'm on a multi day road trip, through the NorthEast. It's the best road trip car ever built.
Coil packs may break. I've got 86,000 miles on the original left side pack, and the right side pack was repaired for $275 when I replaced the plugs this year. See these guys: http://www.v12icpack.com - they can repair your pack, or rebuild the whole pack for $700. Not cheap, but half the dealer price on a new pack.
ABC can be serviced. I rebuilt both valve bodies for about $12 in parts. Add $65 for fluid. I had one hose repaired at my local hydraulic shop, $150, and bought the pulse damper hose from an on line source, $275. I replaced three of the accumulators, $650, the filter, $40, and then did a "rodeo" with another five liters of fluid. About $1,200 all in and the system is working great.
You must buy a STAR/DAS system. The best $500 you will ever spend.
For those who say "get a different car" - it's like telling a guy that wants to buy an F-14 that he should buy a Lear jet because it's easier and cheaper to own...well...yeah...that's true...but you didn't shop for an F-14 because it was cheap to own...you wanted it because it was the most awesome fighter ever built and you're willing to put in the maintenance work.
The S600 is an F-14. Big, complex, fast and, in the end, awesome.
I had been looking at the r500 and r63 (yea right!), then the e500 wagon, but for a tad bit more we could get an s600... It just seems the absolute best bang for the buck, with so much more power potential to boot.
We own a performance shop, and are quite accustomed to modifying and building cars from the frame up.... Though this platform is new to us, turbos are not... And they make me giddy at the though of what potential they have.
My husband is usually quite leery of my hair brained car purchase schemes. But he's, thankfully, very much on board with this one, since he's going to be the one doing the work.... Hahaha
Now comes the task of selling my 3000GT spyder to make room for something the kids can fit in... Thank you for the replies. I really appreciate it.
Doing a little more reading on the coil pack issues, looks like, according to this guy, the issue is broken wiring (as he said there doesn't look like any other components of it could really go wrong).
So, simple soldering would be able to repair them, instead of needing to replace them at thousands of dollars for new units.
That is a huge relief, and something we can easily do ourselves. https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...pack-s600.html
Not all defects are the same, and coil packs can't USUALLY be repaired like that. The failure is typically overheating of the coil within each stainless steel tube. You can replace them with new copy parts from MotorKing:
The V12TT would be half the car without ABC, and I certainly wouldn't have one without it. Its complicated, and you can't trust mechanics, but it is maintainable.
We own a performance shop, and are quite accustomed to modifying and building cars from the frame up.... Though this platform is new to us, turbos are not... And they make me giddy at the though of what potential they have.
My husband is usually quite leery of my hair brained car purchase schemes. But he's, thankfully, very much on board with this one, since he's going to be the one doing the work.... Hahaha
Now comes the task of selling my 3000GT spyder to make room for something the kids can fit in... Thank you for the replies. I really appreciate it.
I come from TT 3/S land as well. The S600 is no more of a pain to work on really than a VR-4. It's just that there are some specific quirks and very expensive high-fail parts that are almost guaranteed to need replacing especially once you start upgrading. Specifically the coils. It IS a much bigger pain to upgrade than a 3/S, and has lots of limitations with what can be done in the tune without going to a full standalone (which is $12,000+ or something due to all the integration required). Fortunately, I don't think you need to go there until you've maxxed the stock injectors which may or may not be around that 750hp mark.
As far as my experience with the S600...the only things that have broken on me were things that I have directly or indirectly caused. I did the ECU/TCU tune and shortly thereafter, my 95,000 mile stock coil assembly went out. That was expected. I was doing preventive maintenance and replacing the pulleys and belt on the front of the engine and cracked my radiator in the process (apparently the large factory quick-disconnect is very prone to cracking and if it is disturbed much it will go to leaking). Apart from that, it's literally just been standard preventive maintenance I have done. One noisy wheel bearing. Brake pads. Oil changes. Transmission fluid change. Etc.
You should expect parts to be expensive and you should expect to break other things while you are making repairs if you don't REALLY take your time and be careful. But as far as things going wrong mechanically just out of the blue, I think they are extremely solid cars. And the power/response is UNREAL...makes my 15G stealth feel stock.
Car world is definitely a small world, lol. I'm good. Being hungry for more mods on the S600 is precisely why I am working on selling that stealth I was talking to you about a few weeks ago. I got it running a ton better, still a few minor bugs to work out though and I ended up finding a new glass roof for it that will hopefully survive shipping alright so I will be getting it a little more presentable and trying to sell it locally.
Knowing who you guys are, and your quality of work I am sure you will have no problem with an S600. When you get all the preventive stuff done and get it up to speed and start modding there are lots of very informative threads on here but the basics are just like with any stock turbo car...turn the boost up, improve charge cooling, improve exhaust flow, etc. Tunes are extremely expensive on this platform and the vendors are really tight-lipped/vague about specifically what they can and can't do in the tune, but the results are phenomenal and still great bang for the buck. I mean I don't know of any other platform where a flash tune is more than a couple hundred bucks...here your entry level one is $999 on sale, lol.
You would probably have a heart attack if I told you my E85 conversion on my S600 is the same as on my 3/Ss. It consists of properly oversized injectors and no other changes whatsoever. I still need to flow test the stock pump to see if I have enough to flash in the race gas tune, but it runs better than ever on my pump gas tune. I know we butted heads on the whole E85 thing on Facebook, lol. But apparently there's no control over the injector scaling in the tune (at least that's what Jerry @ Eurocharged says), so that's the only way to do it on these short of a very expensive standalone. The hardest part about modding these cars is finding out basic information about how the systems actually work (particularly the ECU and other modules control schemes for various things).
I am excited to have you guys join the platform, it would be great to have someone with similar past platform experiences to spitball mod ideas with. I hope you get a great deal on a clean one, they are hands down the most car you can get for the money anywhere.
I owned a 2006 S65 for 10 years and 90k miles. Sold it 3 weeks ago and got a new W222 S65. Once you drive a V12TT you will not want to go back to a V8, and this from a long time V8 muscle car driver. Maintenance unique to a V12 are coil packs (the new replacements are improved, should not fail), motor mounts (requires partial removal of engine from car) and liquid cooled alternator. The ABC is not unique to a V12, it was just a standard option on all AMG's and V12's, optional on S500's.
Never had to do any repairs on the engine or transmission. All work was done by the dealer with no more than two days in the shop. Something other than routine maintenance was only at 2 or 3 year intervals. We were driving it about 9K miles/year.
We currently own 2 MB V12's and the new S65 is the 5th we have purchased, all told we have driven MB V12's over 250k miles. Yes, some of the parts and labor can get expensive out of warranty but these things are generally fix once and done.
The person who bought my 2006 S65 purchased a warranty for it last week for $3k. I have not seen the paperwork on the warranty but he tells me it is pretty all inclusive.
The person who bought my 2006 S65 purchased a warranty for it last week for $3k. I have not seen the paperwork on the warranty but he tells me it is pretty all inclusive.
Super off-topic, but since it came up I feel the need to chime in.
Being intimately familiar with the backside of the warranty business (due to being in the used car business and being pitched dozens of warranty programs from companies that were wanting us to try and attach to our car deals), it's ALWAYS a bad deal for the customer. Usually through exclusions and/or deductibles. And if it isn't a bad deal, then that warranty company will be bankrupt in short order anyway due to lack of profitability and claims depleting their reserves and then your warranty is worthless.
Almost every warranty I've seen specifically excludes any turbocharged, supercharged, 4WD, or heavy duty/commercial vehicles. That doesn't mean they won't still sell you the warranty...your vehicle just might not actually have been eligible in the first place. It's the same concept as if you buy a wrong part that doesn't actually fit your car...it's not the warranty company's responsibility to determine if the product you are purchasing applies to your vehicle...that's on you. As a rule, insurance or warranty products are always a net loss for the consumer if it's a respectable/real product, and it tends to be a very scammy industry in general so a lot of the warranties are very rarely even honored. I would never buy one personally, nor offer one to my customers. The average structure is $1,000-1,200 per year, with an expected wholesale net repair cost of $300-400/year after the deductible is applied. If the warranty on that S65 is from a legitimate company then he got very lucky and they are going to lose their *** on that deal and probably revise their contract or eligibility requirements as a result. Unless perhaps that's $3,000 for a one-year warranty. But most likely it's a 2-3 year and he's ended up with one of the thousands of shady warranty companies that won't cover much of anything.
You wouldn't even believe. There are probably literally millions of insurance/warranty companies set up. It's primarily used as an excuse to move profits into an offshore tax shelter. Some dealers (particularly buy here pay here/in-house financing) that run their own will actually be using it for a proper and fair warranty...essentially a savings account for their customers so they don't get stuck with a large repair all at once. It has significant tax advantages for both the customer and dealer that way (in that the dealer can defer taxes and the customer can avoid paying sales tax and mark-ups on the repair). But for the most part, they are used as a retirement account for a dealer, to squirrel away money from the tax man. They will try to tuck all the profits into the warranty company and oftentimes outright deny claims or the good ones that actually intend to take care of their customers will expense them to the dealership as policy work to eliminate the profit in the dealership and take it in the warranty company where the tax rate is essentially at capital gains instead of income tax. The point is, it CAN be a good thing for everyone but it depends entirely on the intentions of the owner/administrator of that particular individual offshore corporation.
Sorry to derail the thread, Em. I get off on a tangent easily.
Being on the repair facility end of those aftermarket warranties... They are the shadiest, most God awful companies.
Example... We had a car come in with rod knock (spun bearings).
They ONLY covered the bearing that actually spun... Not the entire crank, or labor for anything other than what was directly involved with those specific spun bearings... They only paid for remanufactured crank, etc... God. Awful. The customer was left paying the remaining balance of the work, whatever deductible they had, etc. Really no cost savings to them at all, after paying for that warranty.
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