AsianML

Umm...availability for options. Too many people are ordering the options and packages and the third party manufacturers can't keep up with the demand. Looks like you didn't do much research on this either.

Oh, and don't give me the "S-Class sales fell this month" BS either. You have to take into account that x,xxx number of people have already purchased an S-Class, taking away from the total number of people who can afford it.

rieger

So you don't want to admit that possibly that former S-class owners were pissed at the quality and migrated to the LS.

AsianML

Where'd you get that from? Have sales of used 2007 S-Classes risen or something to make you say that?

pmb600

Rieger here is the explaination of sales. The 2007 model year S-Class was brand new in the 2006 calendar year (as was the LS I think). The car was released in February and obivously sales of a new car, especially a highly anticipated car such as the S-Class, were high. As AsianML said, there is only a limited pool of customers for cars in this league, and naturally the LS sales would surpass the S-Class this year as the demand "normalizes". Now that the "newness" has worn off slightly the sales of both cars will decrease gradually each year until their replacements come out in about 6 years time. I do not beleive it is anyone's expectation that sales of the S-Class will exceed the Lexus LS. They really are very different, the base price of the S-Class is almost $20,000 more. The base price of the 7-series and A8 are more in the LS ballpark.

rieger

Can you please follow the thread? Basically you agreed that MB has had problems with their vehicles correct? Then what I am saying is that possibly that W220 owners or E-class owners who have suffered some of these reliability problems might instead of buying another S-class or upgrading to the S-class from the E-class may have gone over to Lexus instead, hence some Lost sales for MB's S-class. Not sure what you are saying about sales of used 2007 S-class?

Germancar1

This isn't an availability problem, the numbers from Feb-Apr last year were like 3K a month or better, it was a brand new car and there were a lot of pre-orders in those shipments. Every single car sold drops somewhat in their second model year, this is normal.... please don't try to make it into some type of Lexus-induced event. What kills me about Lexus fanatics is that the mintue they see a MB sales drop it has to be because all of a sudden out the clear blue sky buyers have decided that reliability plays a bigger role this month than it did last month or last year. Politely, that is just plain BS of the higest order. The Lexus GS and IS have dropped big time since their debut years, so what is the reasoning behind that. It surely isn't production or availability, answer: it is the natural course of how cars sell. Up, down, then level off...till a facelift then up for a min and then down again. That is how it goes.

M

pmb600

Well said Germancar1.

Germancar1

Correct, there are literally thousands of former Benz owners driving Lexuses all over the country, and you're right it will take time and glowing reports from Consumer Reports and JD Powers to win some of them back over. All of them of course will not be won back, but some of them can. Most Lexus buyers that had Mercedes' will tell you in a min they'd switch back if it weren't for reliability, dealer service etc. etc. it wasn't because they didn't like driving a Benz. I still maintain that Lexus would have never become as large as they have if it weren't for Mercedes serious drop in quality and reliability. Mercedes unlike GM/Ford/Chrysler hasn't made many undesireable, ugly or poorly executed cars from a asthetics standpoint, just some poorly built (original M-Class, W220 S-Class) and some unreliable ones, take your pick.

M

Germancar1

Can you guys please stop with the ridiculous insults? Aren't there moderators on these boards?

M

vraa

There are moderators, and they are quite angry.

rieger, if you cannot respectfully address a fellow member of this board, you will have to leave (it's your choice, be nice or be banned).

dr.skp.ortho, if you think someone is violating the terms of use, please report the post to a moderator, fighting a flame with a flame doesn't put out the fire.

rieger

I will gladly be respectful of the policies as long as they don't start the personal flames first. If you read the whole thread you will see that I have not started any PERSONAL flames only have responded to other rude members. Just because I am not a MB cheerleader doesn't mean that I start the PERSONAL flames.
I apologize to others who have had to read some of these rude remarks but go back and read the exchanges between Dr. Ortho and me and you will see that Dr. Ortho has not added to any of the debates, but to insult me and others who have debated on the topic of this thread. I have debated this thread in a civil way unless personal attacked. If you want to have this debate continue in a civil way than ask others to do so.

rieger

I never said that I liked the way Lexus drives over how a MB drives. I have said the MB drives sportier than the Lexus and if you were looking for a ride between sporty and luxury ride than I would get the MB (not saying the ride is not luxurious). I AGREE WITH YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT TOTALLY EXCEPT FOR THE GOING BACK TO MB PART SINCE SOME OWNERS DO HONESTLY PREFER LEXUS JUST AS SOME HONESTLY PREFER MB.
I always had said that MB put out some inferior quality cars out and that is what made me quite upset. Maybe some of you were lucky to get ones without problems but as an MB owner if I were you I would be upset also at MB, for doing this to harm their own brand name.
I don't think I ever mentioned that I didn't like how my E-Class of how my S-class drove. I just mentioned that it had many problems and some of you were on my back saying I was bashing MB and insulting me so I am not going to standby and let anyone do that. I enjoyed the cars like many of you when it did function properly but was very annoyed to spend good money on the cars and then have to sit in service all the time or driving C-class or E-class loaners all the time( this is snobby me ).
If you had the experience of what I had to deal with on 3 of my MB vehicles I think you would be hesitant to give a thumbs up to the W221.
I have had good debates on this thread with pmb or you when you didn't insult me but can't say that with some others like Dr ortho with his constant insults.

dr.skp.ortho

Rieger insulting someone? Surely not......

rieger

Another quality post by you. Look if you have nothing to add to the discussion why don't you just keep quit.

shadowgriffen

The S-class is world renowned as the king of all automobiles. No matter how many gadgets, gizmos, and marketing crap any other manufacturer comes out will, Mercedes will forever be king and will be the conerstone of the luxury auto market.

Lexus does a great job of making good cars, but that's where the line ends.

You want the crown get the crown, not the Tiara.

rieger

It is the king currently not arguing that but forever now that is a bold statement. Never know, BMW, Audi and Lexus are chipping away at the S-class sales. I think it really comes down to if the new generation can regain the old status as best built and reliable. Look at how Mb built its reputation. It used to manufacture not only the best Luxury cars but also the most reliable as you would always see very old MB's travelling down the road. This was the best advertising any automobile company can have. This adds to the prestige and status of the MB brand. But status and prestige only goes so far if it is not backed up by qualityl. Look at RR, Jaguar, and some other luxury vehicle manufacturers that have either become bankrupt, bought out or just disappeared because they could not keep up and lost its status symbol. Obvioulsy not just talking about MB here this goes for any other manufacturer.
IF MB doesn't go back to being reliable in the new generation of MB's then they would be really gambling on its future as the best manufacturer. Don't think for a second that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't doing as much R&D as possible to grab that halo title from MB.

dr.skp.ortho

Glass houses and stones mate....plus it's spelt "quiet"....but maybe they only get to that in the 5th grade?

rieger

keep coming with the insults so that I can prove my point that it's not me who wants to keep the insults going back and forth.

dr.skp.ortho

just like you proved your point that the w221 rusts right???

dr.skp.ortho

do you speak english?

rieger

seriously go back and read it again if you can read. I said my S-class has rusting problems and I did say that I had a W220 not the W221 so when I said the W221 rusts on the next post that was a mistake which I did correct.

rieger

Whats wrong with you seriously do you want to insult each other forever? You go right ahead just keep it up.

dr.skp.ortho

Aww c'mon rieger.....don't quit on me now champ!

AsianML

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Germancar1

Guy, the post you qouted wasn't in response to you. I never said that you commented on how a MB or Lexus drove so I'm not sure why you're telling me what you did and did not say. I think we all get that you're "upset" about your MB experiences, but what I don't get is the rancid way you keep harping about it over and over like it is going to carry more weight (on an MB board) if you keep repeating it. Your posts almost always get the facts wrong and/or are missing the facts to begin with. I have no problem with debating MB with a Lexus fanatic, but if you aren't going to bring actual facts or some knowledge past the "my mb broke down" mentality then there isn't much to debate. Lexuses are just better cars IYO, we get that.

If the Doc is insulting you just be the bigger man and ignore it. That will end that. Smart posts will attract smart posts and vice versa.

M