What do u guys think of new 2008 Lexus LS600?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,414
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From: West Michigan
2007 E63
Look F for brains if your assessment number #1 is true then look at 2006 numbers, S-class outsold LS and it was more expensive. LS didn't get cheaper moron it got more expensive and sold a lot more units so your arguement doesn't make sense. Also if MB was having availability then it seems like they didn't have availability problems last year.
Oh, and don't give me the "S-Class sales fell this month" BS either. You have to take into account that x,xxx number of people have already purchased an S-Class, taking away from the total number of people who can afford it.
Your second argument is what I was asking if Mb was having availability problems *** face. If you could read correctly moron I didn't say anything about the W221 reliability problems I was saying past reliability problems. Man before you go rudely and ignorantly calling people names you should read first.
What is wrong with some of you can't make any statements without insulting people first.
What is wrong with some of you can't make any statements without insulting people first.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,414
Likes: 6
From: West Michigan
2007 E63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,240
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From: New Jersey
E550 4MATIC
Rieger here is the explaination of sales. The 2007 model year S-Class was brand new in the 2006 calendar year (as was the LS I think). The car was released in February and obivously sales of a new car, especially a highly anticipated car such as the S-Class, were high. As AsianML said, there is only a limited pool of customers for cars in this league, and naturally the LS sales would surpass the S-Class this year as the demand "normalizes". Now that the "newness" has worn off slightly the sales of both cars will decrease gradually each year until their replacements come out in about 6 years time. I do not beleive it is anyone's expectation that sales of the S-Class will exceed the Lexus LS. They really are very different, the base price of the S-Class is almost $20,000 more. The base price of the 7-series and A8 are more in the LS ballpark.
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Can you please follow the thread? Basically you agreed that MB has had problems with their vehicles correct? Then what I am saying is that possibly that W220 owners or E-class owners who have suffered some of these reliability problems might instead of buying another S-class or upgrading to the S-class from the E-class may have gone over to Lexus instead, hence some Lost sales for MB's S-class. Not sure what you are saying about sales of used 2007 S-class?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
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From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Wow S-Class sales numbers actually fell. Is this an availability problem or is it because of the reliability problems catching up with MB and making many customers upset hence some have moved over to Lexus therefore boosting Lexus LS sales. I assume these are U.S only sales numbers because most Americans don't like to take crap hence the quick rise of Lexus in the US. While in other countries Lexus sales figures are rising slowly but surely. No ,matter even if we are having this discussion is a 
too Lexus since about 10years ago this discussion would really be utterly impossible but not today since this same discussion is going in on many other forums.
too Lexus since about 10years ago this discussion would really be utterly impossible but not today since this same discussion is going in on many other forums.M
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
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From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I think he is right about one thing. Mercedes has definately lost customers due to reliability issues in the past and I'm sure that some of them have been lost to Lexus. This is something that they have to deal with. The new S, CL and soon C will hopefully win some people back, but it will take time. We have to remember that most people are not as into their cars as we are so for them style and driving dynamics, etc. are not as important which would make them move to Lexus if they have had a bad experience with Mercedes.
M
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,933
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rieger, if you cannot respectfully address a fellow member of this board, you will have to leave (it's your choice, be nice or be banned).
dr.skp.ortho, if you think someone is violating the terms of use, please report the post to a moderator, fighting a flame with a flame doesn't put out the fire.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 398
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I will gladly be respectful of the policies as long as they don't start the personal flames first. If you read the whole thread you will see that I have not started any PERSONAL flames only have responded to other rude members. Just because I am not a MB cheerleader doesn't mean that I start the PERSONAL flames.
I apologize to others who have had to read some of these rude remarks but go back and read the exchanges between Dr. Ortho and me and you will see that Dr. Ortho has not added to any of the debates, but to insult me and others who have debated on the topic of this thread. I have debated this thread in a civil way unless personal attacked. If you want to have this debate continue in a civil way than ask others to do so.
I apologize to others who have had to read some of these rude remarks but go back and read the exchanges between Dr. Ortho and me and you will see that Dr. Ortho has not added to any of the debates, but to insult me and others who have debated on the topic of this thread. I have debated this thread in a civil way unless personal attacked. If you want to have this debate continue in a civil way than ask others to do so.
Last edited by rieger; May 1, 2007 at 10:10 AM.
Senior Member
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Correct, there are literally thousands of former Benz owners driving Lexuses all over the country, and you're right it will take time and glowing reports from Consumer Reports and JD Powers to win some of them back over. All of them of course will not be won back, but some of them can. Most Lexus buyers that had Mercedes' will tell you in a min they'd switch back if it weren't for reliability, dealer service etc. etc. it wasn't because they didn't like driving a Benz. I still maintain that Lexus would have never become as large as they have if it weren't for Mercedes serious drop in quality and reliability. Mercedes unlike GM/Ford/Chrysler hasn't made many undesireable, ugly or poorly executed cars from a asthetics standpoint, just some poorly built (original M-Class, W220 S-Class) and some unreliable ones, take your pick.
M
M
I always had said that MB put out some inferior quality cars out and that is what made me quite upset. Maybe some of you were lucky to get ones without problems but as an MB owner if I were you I would be upset also at MB, for doing this to harm their own brand name.
I don't think I ever mentioned that I didn't like how my E-Class of how my S-class drove. I just mentioned that it had many problems and some of you were on my back saying I was bashing MB and insulting me so I am not going to standby and let anyone do that. I enjoyed the cars like many of you when it did function properly but was very annoyed to spend good money on the cars and then have to sit in service all the time or driving C-class or E-class loaners all the time( this is snobby me
). If you had the experience of what I had to deal with on 3 of my MB vehicles I think you would be hesitant to give a thumbs up to the W221.
I have had good debates on this thread with pmb or you when you didn't insult me but can't say that with some others like Dr ortho with his constant insults.
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: NSW, Australia
McLaren 570S, G12 BMW 750Li, GLE63s AMG Coupe
Look F for brains if your assessment number #1 is true then look at 2006 numbers, S-class outsold LS and it was more expensive. LS didn't get cheaper moron it got more expensive and sold a lot more units so your arguement doesn't make sense. Also if MB was having availability then it seems like they didn't have availability problems last year. Your second argument is what I was asking if Mb was having availability problems *** face. If you could read correctly moron I didn't say anything about the W221 reliability problems I was saying past reliability problems. Man before you go rudely and ignorantly calling people names you should read first.
What is wrong with some of you can't make any statements without insulting people first.
What is wrong with some of you can't make any statements without insulting people first.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,094
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From: Boston
is a German Tank
The S-class is world renowned as the king of all automobiles. No matter how many gadgets, gizmos, and marketing crap any other manufacturer comes out will, Mercedes will forever be king and will be the conerstone of the luxury auto market.
Lexus does a great job of making good cars, but that's where the line ends.
You want the crown get the crown, not the Tiara.
Lexus does a great job of making good cars, but that's where the line ends.
You want the crown get the crown, not the Tiara.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 398
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It is the king currently not arguing that but forever now that is a bold statement. Never know, BMW, Audi and Lexus are chipping away at the S-class sales. I think it really comes down to if the new generation can regain the old status as best built and reliable. Look at how Mb built its reputation. It used to manufacture not only the best Luxury cars but also the most reliable as you would always see very old MB's travelling down the road. This was the best advertising any automobile company can have. This adds to the prestige and status of the MB brand. But status and prestige only goes so far if it is not backed up by qualityl. Look at RR, Jaguar, and some other luxury vehicle manufacturers that have either become bankrupt, bought out or just disappeared because they could not keep up and lost its status symbol. Obvioulsy not just talking about MB here this goes for any other manufacturer.
IF MB doesn't go back to being reliable in the new generation of MB's then they would be really gambling on its future as the best manufacturer. Don't think for a second that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't doing as much R&D as possible to grab that halo title from MB.
IF MB doesn't go back to being reliable in the new generation of MB's then they would be really gambling on its future as the best manufacturer. Don't think for a second that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't doing as much R&D as possible to grab that halo title from MB.
Member
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From: NSW, Australia
McLaren 570S, G12 BMW 750Li, GLE63s AMG Coupe
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 398
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Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: NSW, Australia
McLaren 570S, G12 BMW 750Li, GLE63s AMG Coupe
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: NSW, Australia
McLaren 570S, G12 BMW 750Li, GLE63s AMG Coupe
I will gladly be respectful of the policies as long as they don't start the personal flames first. If you read the whole thread you will see that I have not started any PERSONAL flames only have responded to other rude members. Just because I am not a MB cheerleader doesn't mean that I start the PERSONAL flames.
I apologize to others who have had to read some of these rude remarks but go back and read the exchanges between Dr. Ortho and me and you will see that Dr. Ortho has not added to any of the debates, but to insult me and others who have debated on the topic of this thread. I have debated this thread in a civil way unless personal attacked. If you want to have this debate continue in a civil way than ask others to do so.
I apologize to others who have had to read some of these rude remarks but go back and read the exchanges between Dr. Ortho and me and you will see that Dr. Ortho has not added to any of the debates, but to insult me and others who have debated on the topic of this thread. I have debated this thread in a civil way unless personal attacked. If you want to have this debate continue in a civil way than ask others to do so.
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seriously go back and read it again if you can read. I said my S-class has rusting problems and I did say that I had a W220 not the W221 so when I said the W221 rusts on the next post that was a mistake which I did correct.
Last edited by rieger; May 1, 2007 at 03:04 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 398
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Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: NSW, Australia
McLaren 570S, G12 BMW 750Li, GLE63s AMG Coupe
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,414
Likes: 6
From: West Michigan
2007 E63
I will gladly be respectful of the policies as long as they don't start the personal flames first. If you read the whole thread you will see that I have not started any PERSONAL flames only have responded to other rude members. Just because I am not a MB cheerleader doesn't mean that I start the PERSONAL flames.
I apologize to others who have had to read some of these rude remarks but go back and read the exchanges between Dr. Ortho and me and you will see that Dr. Ortho has not added to any of the debates, but to insult me and others who have debated on the topic of this thread. I have debated this thread in a civil way unless personal attacked. If you want to have this debate continue in a civil way than ask others to do so.
I apologize to others who have had to read some of these rude remarks but go back and read the exchanges between Dr. Ortho and me and you will see that Dr. Ortho has not added to any of the debates, but to insult me and others who have debated on the topic of this thread. I have debated this thread in a civil way unless personal attacked. If you want to have this debate continue in a civil way than ask others to do so.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 291
From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I never said that I liked the way Lexus drives over how a MB drives. I have said the MB drives sportier than the Lexus and if you were looking for a ride between sporty and luxury ride than I would get the MB (not saying the ride is not luxurious). I AGREE WITH YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT TOTALLY EXCEPT FOR THE GOING BACK TO MB PART SINCE SOME OWNERS DO HONESTLY PREFER LEXUS JUST AS SOME HONESTLY PREFER MB.
I always had said that MB put out some inferior quality cars out and that is what made me quite upset. Maybe some of you were lucky to get ones without problems but as an MB owner if I were you I would be upset also at MB, for doing this to harm their own brand name.
I don't think I ever mentioned that I didn't like how my E-Class of how my S-class drove. I just mentioned that it had many problems and some of you were on my back saying I was bashing MB and insulting me so I am not going to standby and let anyone do that. I enjoyed the cars like many of you when it did function properly but was very annoyed to spend good money on the cars and then have to sit in service all the time or driving C-class or E-class loaners all the time( this is snobby me ).
If you had the experience of what I had to deal with on 3 of my MB vehicles I think you would be hesitant to give a thumbs up to the W221.
I have had good debates on this thread with pmb or you when you didn't insult me but can't say that with some others like Dr ortho with his constant insults.
I always had said that MB put out some inferior quality cars out and that is what made me quite upset. Maybe some of you were lucky to get ones without problems but as an MB owner if I were you I would be upset also at MB, for doing this to harm their own brand name.
I don't think I ever mentioned that I didn't like how my E-Class of how my S-class drove. I just mentioned that it had many problems and some of you were on my back saying I was bashing MB and insulting me so I am not going to standby and let anyone do that. I enjoyed the cars like many of you when it did function properly but was very annoyed to spend good money on the cars and then have to sit in service all the time or driving C-class or E-class loaners all the time( this is snobby me
). If you had the experience of what I had to deal with on 3 of my MB vehicles I think you would be hesitant to give a thumbs up to the W221.
I have had good debates on this thread with pmb or you when you didn't insult me but can't say that with some others like Dr ortho with his constant insults.
If the Doc is insulting you just be the bigger man and ignore it. That will end that. Smart posts will attract smart posts and vice versa.
M
