New to me S350 BT - Woes
05-31-2015, 08:42 PM
#1
New to me S350 BT - Woes
CPO 2013 S350 Bluetec - took it for it's first long road trip.....realized there's a diesel fuel leak somewhere under the car - 300 miles from home. Entire back of car has a film of diesel all over it. I really think it was like this from the day I picked it up last Thursday.
Nothing one can do on a Sunday, except find a hotel and have it towed tomorrow morning - luckily this town has an MB dealership 4 miles away.
Someone a few years ago mentioned that it was absolutely financially impossible for a dealer to do a full CPO inspection down to every checklist item on every CPO vehicle they sell. I'm beginning to believe it.
"This is why I can't have nice things!!!"
Nothing one can do on a Sunday, except find a hotel and have it towed tomorrow morning - luckily this town has an MB dealership 4 miles away.
Someone a few years ago mentioned that it was absolutely financially impossible for a dealer to do a full CPO inspection down to every checklist item on every CPO vehicle they sell. I'm beginning to believe it.
"This is why I can't have nice things!!!"
05-31-2015, 09:00 PM
#2
Super Member
Sorry to hear about problems right off the bat. I hope that the problem is solved quickly and to your satisfaction. I have had nothing but good experience from the CPO cars that I have had but that's not to say I have not had to have things fixed on them early on. Good luck and I hope it turns out well.
05-31-2015, 09:46 PM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
I bought a CPO S that had yet to be certified. In fact it was filthy, sitting in the impound lot as a lease turn in and not in the dealers inventory yet. I bought it and it took a week of solid work to get it through certification. I know because I was dying to get my hands on it and I stopped by daily to check the progress. They worked that checklist diligently and that car was stunning when I finally took possession. That's not to say nothing ever failed after certification. Tons of stuff actually but that's the beauty of the CPO warranty, not a guarantee of no problems, just a guarantee you won't pay to fix them.
05-31-2015, 09:55 PM
#4
I agree with Mike above, not all will be perfect. I think the lesson to learn here is to be extra scrupulous with a CPO vehicle, especially when the "Spark Plugs Checked and Replaced if needed" item is checked with an a green "OK" next to it.....and the car you're buying is diesel ;-)
We will see what happens tomorrow morning, and if I can drive the remaining 300 miles home...in what otherwise is a wonderful car.
We will see what happens tomorrow morning, and if I can drive the remaining 300 miles home...in what otherwise is a wonderful car.
05-31-2015, 11:34 PM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
It helps to understand the dynamic that exists between MB and the dealer. The dealer needs to be able to offer the extended warranty that CPO provides as a sales tool. MB begrudgingly offers to certify cars for that purpose. I say begrudgingly because it's likely a losing proposition for them. They make nothing on the sale of a used car, Benz or otherwise. They charge the dealer $2500 for the certification, however to protect themselves they have strict guidelines about what sort of cars they'll take, and they require the dealer to come out of pocket to bring the car to CPO standards.
The CPO checklist doesn't exist to protect the consumer. It exists to prevent a dealer from sticking MB with a lemon. Once the CPO car is sold, MB is on the hook. Despite getting the lowest possible pricing on parts and a break on labor, a CPO car can cost MB thousands more than the $2500 fee.
Not all dealers have the same level of respect for the CPO process, so the CPO stamp alone does not relieve a buyer of due diligence before taking possession.
The CPO checklist doesn't exist to protect the consumer. It exists to prevent a dealer from sticking MB with a lemon. Once the CPO car is sold, MB is on the hook. Despite getting the lowest possible pricing on parts and a break on labor, a CPO car can cost MB thousands more than the $2500 fee.
Not all dealers have the same level of respect for the CPO process, so the CPO stamp alone does not relieve a buyer of due diligence before taking possession.
06-02-2015, 03:16 PM
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
I agree with Mike above, not all will be perfect. I think the lesson to learn here is to be extra scrupulous with a CPO vehicle, especially when the "Spark Plugs Checked and Replaced if needed" item is checked with an a green "OK" next to it.....and the car you're buying is diesel ;-)
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06-04-2015, 09:18 AM
#8
It helps to understand the dynamic that exists between MB and the dealer. The dealer needs to be able to offer the extended warranty that CPO provides as a sales tool. MB begrudgingly offers to certify cars for that purpose. I say begrudgingly because it's likely a losing proposition for them. They make nothing on the sale of a used car, Benz or otherwise. They charge the dealer $2500 for the certification, however to protect themselves they have strict guidelines about what sort of cars they'll take, and they require the dealer to come out of pocket to bring the car to CPO standards.
The CPO checklist doesn't exist to protect the consumer. It exists to prevent a dealer from sticking MB with a lemon. Once the CPO car is sold, MB is on the hook. Despite getting the lowest possible pricing on parts and a break on labor, a CPO car can cost MB thousands more than the $2500 fee.
Not all dealers have the same level of respect for the CPO process, so the CPO stamp alone does not relieve a buyer of due diligence before taking possession.
The CPO checklist doesn't exist to protect the consumer. It exists to prevent a dealer from sticking MB with a lemon. Once the CPO car is sold, MB is on the hook. Despite getting the lowest possible pricing on parts and a break on labor, a CPO car can cost MB thousands more than the $2500 fee.
Not all dealers have the same level of respect for the CPO process, so the CPO stamp alone does not relieve a buyer of due diligence before taking possession.
06-04-2015, 10:12 AM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Where in the world do you get your information from? Have you ever sold a car to a dealer? Dealers typically offer less than wholesale when you sell them your used car so that they can make money when they resell it. When a dealer tells you that they make no money on a used car, don't tell me that you believe it?! The process does not protect the consumer? How can you say that when a CPO car provides a purchaser with X number of years in warranty that covers repairs for that time period? Mercedes has the benefit of having your money up front even if the repairs exceed the cost of the warranty. I agree that some dealers skip some steps and dont do what they should, but a lot of your comments have no basis whatsoever.
It helps to understand that Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not sell cars to consumers. In fact, with the exception of Tesla, no car manufacturer sells cars to consumers. Instead, their cars are sold by a network of independent franchised dealers. When your Mercedes dealer sells you a new Benz, Mercedes Benz corporate obviously makes a profit, as does the dealer. However, when your local franchised dealer sells you a used car, MB corporate is out of the deal.
Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not own any Mercedes Benz dealerships in the United States. They are not one and the same.
CPO changes the equation. In the case of CPO, the franchised MB dealership asks MB corporate to warranty a used Mercedes beyond the original factory warranty. A CPO car tends to sell faster and for more money so it's great for the franchised dealer, but the extended factory warranty from MB corporate comes with a catch: MB corporate wants a car with limited mileage, of a limited age, with a clean internal service history, and very little or no previous body or paint work, etc etc.
They also want the dealer to go through the car...adequate remaining tire tread depth, or the dealership has to buy new tires. Adequate brake pad depth and rotor condition, or the dealership has to pay for a brake job. Broken or damaged trim needs to be addressed by the dealership. It's something like 120 point list that has to be brought into compliance before MB corporate will certify the car. To issue the CPO warranty, MB corporate charges their franchised dealership a couple grand. That's the only proceed MB corporate makes from the sale of a used Mercedes. (Unless the buyer opts to pay for extended CPO coverage)
MB corporate's concern is that the dealer slaps their extended warranty on a car that's a piece of crap to make the car more salable, and then MB corporate is on the hook for something that may cost them thousands above the couple of grand they took in for the certification. There's an implied conflict of interest, since MB corporate will be paying the franchised dealer's service department for any repairs made under the warranty. MB does have a special "warranty rate" for parts and labor that is less than the street price, but the dealership still makes a profit on warranty repairs.
In that sense, the CPO process is intended to protect MB corporate.
So, to sum up, Mercedes Benz, the builder of new Mercedes Benz automobiles, does not make a profit on the sale when one of their independent dealers buys or sells a used car.
The CPO certification process exists to protect MB corporate from the dealership. The CPO warranty obviously protects the consumer.
To answer your question as to where I get my information. Back in 07 I bought that CPO S550 I referenced in my earlier post. The sales guy we'll call "Dave". Dave and his wife Jan had just relocated to the area, having transferred from another dealership in the same dealership group. Jan had a well paying job in the front office, and Dave did commissioned sales.
Then, Jan got pregnant and in the meantime the market crashed and nobody was buying new Mercedes much. When Jan finished her pregnancy leave, she was told her position had been consolidated and eliminated. The first time I brought the S in for service, I was surprised to see Dave as my service writer. The economy was so bad he transferred from sales because service at least had a stable base pay. His wife couldn't work because daycare costs would wipe out most of her income, and they'd signed a lease on an ML back when times were good and now it was killing them.
I own a company that operates preschools. I gave Jan a job at a center and free childcare (worth around $12,000 street price). As a result, they were able to muddle through until conditions improved and Jan found a "real" job again.
We usually have a couple of corporate parties each year, so I'd usually spend some time shooting the crap with Dave. Obviously the discussion turned to cars and MB, so I did get a glimpse behind the scenes. Like any company, Mercedes presents a fascade to consumers, and the nitty gritty reality happens behind the curtain.
Hope that helps.
Last edited by Mike5215; 06-04-2015 at 12:16 PM.
06-04-2015, 06:25 PM
#10
This is the third CPO Mercedes I've bought (remember when it was called Starmark?) but the first I bought sight unseen.
It seems that all of them did require reconditioning beyond cosmetics, and part of the buyer's "work" is to see what they can inspect and get fixed before the sale is made. And also, to return to the dealership for warranty repairs after the sale for all the things that you could not find fault with during your purchase inspection. (It wasn't obvious until the first rain that the rear window defogger on my '99 E300 wasn't working). Either way you are protected, aside from the inconvenience of needing to drop the car off one or more times - especially if the factory bumper-to-bumper warranty is still in effect. I don't know what the limited, but unlimited mileage CPO warranty doesn't cover (certain hoses, etc. comes to mind) but I'd make it a rule to purchase a car that hasn't had it's original warranty expire yet.
I will also say that in the two previous CPO vehicles, every single thing that I pointed out during my own pre-purchase inspection "hey the wood panel here has a scratch" was repaired or replaced without any hesitation - even if cosmetic.
It seems that all of them did require reconditioning beyond cosmetics, and part of the buyer's "work" is to see what they can inspect and get fixed before the sale is made. And also, to return to the dealership for warranty repairs after the sale for all the things that you could not find fault with during your purchase inspection. (It wasn't obvious until the first rain that the rear window defogger on my '99 E300 wasn't working). Either way you are protected, aside from the inconvenience of needing to drop the car off one or more times - especially if the factory bumper-to-bumper warranty is still in effect. I don't know what the limited, but unlimited mileage CPO warranty doesn't cover (certain hoses, etc. comes to mind) but I'd make it a rule to purchase a car that hasn't had it's original warranty expire yet.
I will also say that in the two previous CPO vehicles, every single thing that I pointed out during my own pre-purchase inspection "hey the wood panel here has a scratch" was repaired or replaced without any hesitation - even if cosmetic.
06-04-2015, 07:29 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
This is the third CPO Mercedes I've bought (remember when it was called Starmark?) but the first I bought sight unseen.
It seems that all of them did require reconditioning beyond cosmetics, and part of the buyer's "work" is to see what they can inspect and get fixed before the sale is made. And also, to return to the dealership for warranty repairs after the sale for all the things that you could not find fault with during your purchase inspection. (It wasn't obvious until the first rain that the rear window defogger on my '99 E300 wasn't working). Either way you are protected, aside from the inconvenience of needing to drop the car off one or more times - especially if the factory bumper-to-bumper warranty is still in effect. I don't know what the limited, but unlimited mileage CPO warranty doesn't cover (certain hoses, etc. comes to mind) but I'd make it a rule to purchase a car that hasn't had it's original warranty expire yet.
I will also say that in the two previous CPO vehicles, every single thing that I pointed out during my own pre-purchase inspection "hey the wood panel here has a scratch" was repaired or replaced without any hesitation - even if cosmetic.
It seems that all of them did require reconditioning beyond cosmetics, and part of the buyer's "work" is to see what they can inspect and get fixed before the sale is made. And also, to return to the dealership for warranty repairs after the sale for all the things that you could not find fault with during your purchase inspection. (It wasn't obvious until the first rain that the rear window defogger on my '99 E300 wasn't working). Either way you are protected, aside from the inconvenience of needing to drop the car off one or more times - especially if the factory bumper-to-bumper warranty is still in effect. I don't know what the limited, but unlimited mileage CPO warranty doesn't cover (certain hoses, etc. comes to mind) but I'd make it a rule to purchase a car that hasn't had it's original warranty expire yet.
I will also say that in the two previous CPO vehicles, every single thing that I pointed out during my own pre-purchase inspection "hey the wood panel here has a scratch" was repaired or replaced without any hesitation - even if cosmetic.
I drive down there and the car looks like someone hauled gravel in it. Scratches on all the wood trim, filthy carpeting, terrible shape. The best part was where they had spray painted the leather center console cover rather than replace it.
When I pointed out how poor the condition was, they said "Some owners just take better care of their cars than others." Deposit refunded but I wasted a day.
06-06-2015, 11:33 AM
#12
When you buy a used car (Mercedes or otherwise) from a MB franchised dealer, regardless if how little the dealer paid for it, or how much profit he made on it, Mercedes Benz the manufacturer makes exactly zero dollars. Which makes sense since they had nothing to do with either side of the transaction. Still with me?
It helps to understand that Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not sell cars to consumers. In fact, with the exception of Tesla, no car manufacturer sells cars to consumers. Instead, their cars are sold by a network of independent franchised dealers. When your Mercedes dealer sells you a new Benz, Mercedes Benz corporate obviously makes a profit, as does the dealer. However, when your local franchised dealer sells you a used car, MB corporate is out of the deal.
Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not own any Mercedes Benz dealerships in the United States. They are not one and the same.
CPO changes the equation. In the case of CPO, the franchised MB dealership asks MB corporate to warranty a used Mercedes beyond the original factory warranty. A CPO car tends to sell faster and for more money so it's great for the franchised dealer, but the extended factory warranty from MB corporate comes with a catch: MB corporate wants a car with limited mileage, of a limited age, with a clean internal service history, and very little or no previous body or paint work, etc etc.
They also want the dealer to go through the car...adequate remaining tire tread depth, or the dealership has to buy new tires. Adequate brake pad depth and rotor condition, or the dealership has to pay for a brake job. Broken or damaged trim needs to be addressed by the dealership. It's something like 120 point list that has to be brought into compliance before MB corporate will certify the car. To issue the CPO warranty, MB corporate charges their franchised dealership a couple grand. That's the only proceed MB corporate makes from the sale of a used Mercedes. (Unless the buyer opts to pay for extended CPO coverage)
MB corporate's concern is that the dealer slaps their extended warranty on a car that's a piece of crap to make the car more salable, and then MB corporate is on the hook for something that may cost them thousands above the couple of grand they took in for the certification. There's an implied conflict of interest, since MB corporate will be paying the franchised dealer's service department for any repairs made under the warranty. MB does have a special "warranty rate" for parts and labor that is less than the street price, but the dealership still makes a profit on warranty repairs.
In that sense, the CPO process is intended to protect MB corporate.
So, to sum up, Mercedes Benz, the builder of new Mercedes Benz automobiles, does not make a profit on the sale when one of their independent dealers buys or sells a used car.
The CPO certification process exists to protect MB corporate from the dealership. The CPO warranty obviously protects the consumer.
To answer your question as to where I get my information. Back in 07 I bought that CPO S550 I referenced in my earlier post. The sales guy we'll call "Dave". Dave and his wife Jan had just relocated to the area, having transferred from another dealership in the same dealership group. Jan had a well paying job in the front office, and Dave did commissioned sales.
Then, Jan got pregnant and in the meantime the market crashed and nobody was buying new Mercedes much. When Jan finished her pregnancy leave, she was told her position had been consolidated and eliminated. The first time I brought the S in for service, I was surprised to see Dave as my service writer. The economy was so bad he transferred from sales because service at least had a stable base pay. His wife couldn't work because daycare costs would wipe out most of her income, and they'd signed a lease on an ML back when times were good and now it was killing them.
I own a company that operates preschools. I gave Jan a job at a center and free childcare (worth around $12,000 street price). As a result, they were able to muddle through until conditions improved and Jan found a "real" job again.
We usually have a couple of corporate parties each year, so I'd usually spend some time shooting the crap with Dave. Obviously the discussion turned to cars and MB, so I did get a glimpse behind the scenes. Like any company, Mercedes presents a fascade to consumers, and the nitty gritty reality happens behind the curtain.
Hope that helps.
It helps to understand that Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not sell cars to consumers. In fact, with the exception of Tesla, no car manufacturer sells cars to consumers. Instead, their cars are sold by a network of independent franchised dealers. When your Mercedes dealer sells you a new Benz, Mercedes Benz corporate obviously makes a profit, as does the dealer. However, when your local franchised dealer sells you a used car, MB corporate is out of the deal.
Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not own any Mercedes Benz dealerships in the United States. They are not one and the same.
CPO changes the equation. In the case of CPO, the franchised MB dealership asks MB corporate to warranty a used Mercedes beyond the original factory warranty. A CPO car tends to sell faster and for more money so it's great for the franchised dealer, but the extended factory warranty from MB corporate comes with a catch: MB corporate wants a car with limited mileage, of a limited age, with a clean internal service history, and very little or no previous body or paint work, etc etc.
They also want the dealer to go through the car...adequate remaining tire tread depth, or the dealership has to buy new tires. Adequate brake pad depth and rotor condition, or the dealership has to pay for a brake job. Broken or damaged trim needs to be addressed by the dealership. It's something like 120 point list that has to be brought into compliance before MB corporate will certify the car. To issue the CPO warranty, MB corporate charges their franchised dealership a couple grand. That's the only proceed MB corporate makes from the sale of a used Mercedes. (Unless the buyer opts to pay for extended CPO coverage)
MB corporate's concern is that the dealer slaps their extended warranty on a car that's a piece of crap to make the car more salable, and then MB corporate is on the hook for something that may cost them thousands above the couple of grand they took in for the certification. There's an implied conflict of interest, since MB corporate will be paying the franchised dealer's service department for any repairs made under the warranty. MB does have a special "warranty rate" for parts and labor that is less than the street price, but the dealership still makes a profit on warranty repairs.
In that sense, the CPO process is intended to protect MB corporate.
So, to sum up, Mercedes Benz, the builder of new Mercedes Benz automobiles, does not make a profit on the sale when one of their independent dealers buys or sells a used car.
The CPO certification process exists to protect MB corporate from the dealership. The CPO warranty obviously protects the consumer.
To answer your question as to where I get my information. Back in 07 I bought that CPO S550 I referenced in my earlier post. The sales guy we'll call "Dave". Dave and his wife Jan had just relocated to the area, having transferred from another dealership in the same dealership group. Jan had a well paying job in the front office, and Dave did commissioned sales.
Then, Jan got pregnant and in the meantime the market crashed and nobody was buying new Mercedes much. When Jan finished her pregnancy leave, she was told her position had been consolidated and eliminated. The first time I brought the S in for service, I was surprised to see Dave as my service writer. The economy was so bad he transferred from sales because service at least had a stable base pay. His wife couldn't work because daycare costs would wipe out most of her income, and they'd signed a lease on an ML back when times were good and now it was killing them.
I own a company that operates preschools. I gave Jan a job at a center and free childcare (worth around $12,000 street price). As a result, they were able to muddle through until conditions improved and Jan found a "real" job again.
We usually have a couple of corporate parties each year, so I'd usually spend some time shooting the crap with Dave. Obviously the discussion turned to cars and MB, so I did get a glimpse behind the scenes. Like any company, Mercedes presents a fascade to consumers, and the nitty gritty reality happens behind the curtain.
Hope that helps.
I think I may have misunderstood your thread. Sorry.
06-06-2015, 12:04 PM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's a common source of confusion. You pull onto a lot and see nothing but Mercedes Benz logos and marketing materials. The natural assumption is that the place is owned by Mercedes Benz.
06-24-2015, 09:56 AM
#14
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2006
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"05 CLK320
Follow up to manufacturer and dealership discussion
Mike 5215, thank you for your well written explanation of the relationship and distinction between MBUSA and a MB dealership.
Without trying to create too big a nit, I would like to put forth a correction to your text. That is, it is my understanding that MB of Manahattan is actually a corporately owned store, owned by MBUSA. It is the only corporately owned store in the USA. I was told by a salesman at that store of the MBUSA ownership several years ago. In fact, the store uses that fact of corporate ownership as a marketing tool to distinguish its inventory, buying experience, and service support from all MB dealerships.
Without trying to create too big a nit, I would like to put forth a correction to your text. That is, it is my understanding that MB of Manahattan is actually a corporately owned store, owned by MBUSA. It is the only corporately owned store in the USA. I was told by a salesman at that store of the MBUSA ownership several years ago. In fact, the store uses that fact of corporate ownership as a marketing tool to distinguish its inventory, buying experience, and service support from all MB dealerships.
10-13-2015, 12:11 AM
#15
When you buy a used car (Mercedes or otherwise) from a MB franchised dealer, regardless if how little the dealer paid for it, or how much profit he made on it, Mercedes Benz the manufacturer makes exactly zero dollars. Which makes sense since they had nothing to do with either side of the transaction. Still with me?
It helps to understand that Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not sell cars to consumers. In fact, with the exception of Tesla, no car manufacturer sells cars to consumers. Instead, their cars are sold by a network of independent franchised dealers. When your Mercedes dealer sells you a new Benz, Mercedes Benz corporate obviously makes a profit, as does the dealer. However, when your local franchised dealer sells you a used car, MB corporate is out of the deal.
Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not own any Mercedes Benz dealerships in the United States. They are not one and the same.
CPO changes the equation. In the case of CPO, the franchised MB dealership asks MB corporate to warranty a used Mercedes beyond the original factory warranty. A CPO car tends to sell faster and for more money so it's great for the franchised dealer, but the extended factory warranty from MB corporate comes with a catch: MB corporate wants a car with limited mileage, of a limited age, with a clean internal service history, and very little or no previous body or paint work, etc etc.
They also want the dealer to go through the car...adequate remaining tire tread depth, or the dealership has to buy new tires. Adequate brake pad depth and rotor condition, or the dealership has to pay for a brake job. Broken or damaged trim needs to be addressed by the dealership. It's something like 120 point list that has to be brought into compliance before MB corporate will certify the car. To issue the CPO warranty, MB corporate charges their franchised dealership a couple grand. That's the only proceed MB corporate makes from the sale of a used Mercedes. (Unless the buyer opts to pay for extended CPO coverage)
MB corporate's concern is that the dealer slaps their extended warranty on a car that's a piece of crap to make the car more salable, and then MB corporate is on the hook for something that may cost them thousands above the couple of grand they took in for the certification. There's an implied conflict of interest, since MB corporate will be paying the franchised dealer's service department for any repairs made under the warranty. MB does have a special "warranty rate" for parts and labor that is less than the street price, but the dealership still makes a profit on warranty repairs.
In that sense, the CPO process is intended to protect MB corporate.
So, to sum up, Mercedes Benz, the builder of new Mercedes Benz automobiles, does not make a profit on the sale when one of their independent dealers buys or sells a used car.
The CPO certification process exists to protect MB corporate from the dealership. The CPO warranty obviously protects the consumer.
To answer your question as to where I get my information. Back in 07 I bought that CPO S550 I referenced in my earlier post. The sales guy we'll call "Dave". Dave and his wife Jan had just relocated to the area, having transferred from another dealership in the same dealership group. Jan had a well paying job in the front office, and Dave did commissioned sales.
Then, Jan got pregnant and in the meantime the market crashed and nobody was buying new Mercedes much. When Jan finished her pregnancy leave, she was told her position had been consolidated and eliminated. The first time I brought the S in for service, I was surprised to see Dave as my service writer. The economy was so bad he transferred from sales because service at least had a stable base pay. His wife couldn't work because daycare costs would wipe out most of her income, and they'd signed a lease on an ML back when times were good and now it was killing them.
I own a company that operates preschools. I gave Jan a job at a center and free childcare (worth around $12,000 street price). As a result, they were able to muddle through until conditions improved and Jan found a "real" job again.
We usually have a couple of corporate parties each year, so I'd usually spend some time shooting the crap with Dave. Obviously the discussion turned to cars and MB, so I did get a glimpse behind the scenes. Like any company, Mercedes presents a fascade to consumers, and the nitty gritty reality happens behind the curtain.
Hope that helps.
It helps to understand that Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not sell cars to consumers. In fact, with the exception of Tesla, no car manufacturer sells cars to consumers. Instead, their cars are sold by a network of independent franchised dealers. When your Mercedes dealer sells you a new Benz, Mercedes Benz corporate obviously makes a profit, as does the dealer. However, when your local franchised dealer sells you a used car, MB corporate is out of the deal.
Mercedes Benz, the manufacturer, does not own any Mercedes Benz dealerships in the United States. They are not one and the same.
CPO changes the equation. In the case of CPO, the franchised MB dealership asks MB corporate to warranty a used Mercedes beyond the original factory warranty. A CPO car tends to sell faster and for more money so it's great for the franchised dealer, but the extended factory warranty from MB corporate comes with a catch: MB corporate wants a car with limited mileage, of a limited age, with a clean internal service history, and very little or no previous body or paint work, etc etc.
They also want the dealer to go through the car...adequate remaining tire tread depth, or the dealership has to buy new tires. Adequate brake pad depth and rotor condition, or the dealership has to pay for a brake job. Broken or damaged trim needs to be addressed by the dealership. It's something like 120 point list that has to be brought into compliance before MB corporate will certify the car. To issue the CPO warranty, MB corporate charges their franchised dealership a couple grand. That's the only proceed MB corporate makes from the sale of a used Mercedes. (Unless the buyer opts to pay for extended CPO coverage)
MB corporate's concern is that the dealer slaps their extended warranty on a car that's a piece of crap to make the car more salable, and then MB corporate is on the hook for something that may cost them thousands above the couple of grand they took in for the certification. There's an implied conflict of interest, since MB corporate will be paying the franchised dealer's service department for any repairs made under the warranty. MB does have a special "warranty rate" for parts and labor that is less than the street price, but the dealership still makes a profit on warranty repairs.
In that sense, the CPO process is intended to protect MB corporate.
So, to sum up, Mercedes Benz, the builder of new Mercedes Benz automobiles, does not make a profit on the sale when one of their independent dealers buys or sells a used car.
The CPO certification process exists to protect MB corporate from the dealership. The CPO warranty obviously protects the consumer.
To answer your question as to where I get my information. Back in 07 I bought that CPO S550 I referenced in my earlier post. The sales guy we'll call "Dave". Dave and his wife Jan had just relocated to the area, having transferred from another dealership in the same dealership group. Jan had a well paying job in the front office, and Dave did commissioned sales.
Then, Jan got pregnant and in the meantime the market crashed and nobody was buying new Mercedes much. When Jan finished her pregnancy leave, she was told her position had been consolidated and eliminated. The first time I brought the S in for service, I was surprised to see Dave as my service writer. The economy was so bad he transferred from sales because service at least had a stable base pay. His wife couldn't work because daycare costs would wipe out most of her income, and they'd signed a lease on an ML back when times were good and now it was killing them.
I own a company that operates preschools. I gave Jan a job at a center and free childcare (worth around $12,000 street price). As a result, they were able to muddle through until conditions improved and Jan found a "real" job again.
We usually have a couple of corporate parties each year, so I'd usually spend some time shooting the crap with Dave. Obviously the discussion turned to cars and MB, so I did get a glimpse behind the scenes. Like any company, Mercedes presents a fascade to consumers, and the nitty gritty reality happens behind the curtain.
Hope that helps.
I'd get a kick out of knowing what Mercedes Corporate thinks about the Rick Hendrick dealerships....they are so bad it's beyond belief.
10-14-2015, 11:17 AM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Mike 5215, thank you for your well written explanation of the relationship and distinction between MBUSA and a MB dealership.
Without trying to create too big a nit, I would like to put forth a correction to your text. That is, it is my understanding that MB of Manahattan is actually a corporately owned store, owned by MBUSA. It is the only corporately owned store in the USA. I was told by a salesman at that store of the MBUSA ownership several years ago. In fact, the store uses that fact of corporate ownership as a marketing tool to distinguish its inventory, buying experience, and service support from all MB dealerships.
Without trying to create too big a nit, I would like to put forth a correction to your text. That is, it is my understanding that MB of Manahattan is actually a corporately owned store, owned by MBUSA. It is the only corporately owned store in the USA. I was told by a salesman at that store of the MBUSA ownership several years ago. In fact, the store uses that fact of corporate ownership as a marketing tool to distinguish its inventory, buying experience, and service support from all MB dealerships.
It would be hard to get around New York State's Franchised Motor Vehicle Dealer Act (see, NY Vehicle and Traffic Law, Title 4, Article 17-A), which prohibits any automaker from possessing ownership in a dealership offering its vehicles.
10-14-2015, 04:51 PM
#17
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'71 Pinto
Mercedes-Benz Manhattan, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of MBUSA.
10-15-2015, 10:53 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
US dealers are independently owned franchises. I'm not sure how MB can sell direct to consumers in a state as heavily regulated as NY. It's considered an unfair competitive advantage to all of the non corporate owned stores to have a factory outlet operating in their market.
10-16-2015, 12:29 PM
#21
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'71 Pinto
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC engages in the sale, service, and marketing of Mercedes-Benz and Maybach products and operates as a subsidiary of Daimler AG as such, it is not considered a manufacturer. Mercedes-Benz Manhattan, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of MBUSA. All U.S. MB dealerships are franchised with the exception of MB Manhattan.
10-16-2015, 02:42 PM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC engages in the sale, service, and marketing of Mercedes-Benz and Maybach products and operates as a subsidiary of Daimler AG as such, it is not considered a manufacturer. Mercedes-Benz Manhattan, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of MBUSA. All U.S. MB dealerships are franchised with the exception of MB Manhattan.
10-18-2015, 03:07 AM
#23
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W 222 350 L
Me too
Hi
My 2012 S Class 350 Diesel had the same happen to it, but I was not so lucky...40,000 kms and still under warranty in 2014 when all of this happened.
Officially what happened to us both is called by MB a "Material Malfunction of the injector bleed back"
Sounds like you got it sorted early...you were lucky mine sprayed Diesel all over engine bay, and back underneath the body of the car,
We were like you a long way from home (500 kms or so) travelling in cruise at 110 kph and it was a Saturday afternoon, so called MB assist and ended up in a country town for 2 nights, On the Monday towed to nearest city which had MB dealership, who re-connected the line cleaned around it and sent us on our way.....3 Hours later on a freeway, the supposedly cleaned engine bay caught FIRE...not a big one but frightening for both my wife and I....it was a case of jump and run..
Lessons learnt.
1/. The diesel engine re-aspirates hot exhaust at 900 Celcius when the computer tells it there is a build up of soot in Exhaust...ie it burns the soot off.
2/. Residual fuel that was not cleaned caught fire and Whammo...
3/. Fire wall stopped the fire from spreading underneath..where all of the sound deadening and insulation was saturated by diesel...
4/. Dealers denied all liability and MB said not their problem as they are not responsible for them (franchisees)
If you have not done it already..please check that engine bay is totally clean, and also get the car up on a hoist and check the underside
Take care and enjoy it is a truly beautiful motor car...After the event we traded the fire damaged car and bought a new 2014 W222 S Class 350 BT diesel with the long wheel base and the AMG line body kit and associated goodies...Which is indeed as good as they say it is.
Not too many of them down under so it gets the looks.
wizz
My 2012 S Class 350 Diesel had the same happen to it, but I was not so lucky...40,000 kms and still under warranty in 2014 when all of this happened.
Officially what happened to us both is called by MB a "Material Malfunction of the injector bleed back"
Sounds like you got it sorted early...you were lucky mine sprayed Diesel all over engine bay, and back underneath the body of the car,
We were like you a long way from home (500 kms or so) travelling in cruise at 110 kph and it was a Saturday afternoon, so called MB assist and ended up in a country town for 2 nights, On the Monday towed to nearest city which had MB dealership, who re-connected the line cleaned around it and sent us on our way.....3 Hours later on a freeway, the supposedly cleaned engine bay caught FIRE...not a big one but frightening for both my wife and I....it was a case of jump and run..
Lessons learnt.
1/. The diesel engine re-aspirates hot exhaust at 900 Celcius when the computer tells it there is a build up of soot in Exhaust...ie it burns the soot off.
2/. Residual fuel that was not cleaned caught fire and Whammo...
3/. Fire wall stopped the fire from spreading underneath..where all of the sound deadening and insulation was saturated by diesel...
4/. Dealers denied all liability and MB said not their problem as they are not responsible for them (franchisees)
If you have not done it already..please check that engine bay is totally clean, and also get the car up on a hoist and check the underside
Take care and enjoy it is a truly beautiful motor car...After the event we traded the fire damaged car and bought a new 2014 W222 S Class 350 BT diesel with the long wheel base and the AMG line body kit and associated goodies...Which is indeed as good as they say it is.
Not too many of them down under so it gets the looks.
wizz
10-19-2015, 12:23 AM
#24
Hehehehe, just to follow up - ultimately, the dealer I went to during my trip "zip tied" things together (literally) and did not tell me that is how they fixed it. The dealer near my actual home found out about this, and of course there was some heated discussion - that I actually didn't have to worry about. In the end, the lines between injectors 5 and 6 were replaced (p/n 642-070-78-32)
Several pieces of what I presumed to be sound insulation and the fibrous underbelly cover were also replaced under CPO because they were soaked with diesel fuel. They also went through 3 cans of brake cleaner - which I was told was for the degreasing of the engine bay.
In the 4.5 months I've had the car, the following additional parts/problems were replaced or resolved all under CPO warranty or as a We Owe from the selling dealer:
- C/S: Check Engine Light on -- AdBlue tank heater replacement
- C/S: Rear heat zone blows hot. -- Rear A/C heater control valve replaced
- C/S: Rear speaker buzz/distort on moderate volumes -- Replaced Rear B+O Sub Module, replaced torn rear shelf insulation
- C/S: Replace windshield -- Replaced Windshield per sublet [This was part of the selling dealer's We Owe list]
- C/S: Abnormal humming "bearing noise" at speed -- Replaced L&R steering knuckle and wheel bearings, alignment performed. (This repair was particularly long - 2.5 weeks in the shop, but I did have a loaner)
- C/S: Passenger side puddle lamp Inop -- Checked bulb, Replaced Rear door Cmod
- C/S: Distronic disengages at speed w/error -- Found firmware update N/C
Only additional $$ I put in to it for new wheels and tires...the 20" factory options that it came with were not my style. Put 18" wheels and Continental tires on from Tirerack.
About on par for a 2013 W221 with less than 20k miles on it, I'd say. If I have time later, I'll post the generalized highlights from the VMI for the time before I owned the car....let's just say "engine mounts" 3x.
Feature that I like the most: Splitview.
Feature that I did not expect: The way the rear entertainment screens can also show navigation info.
Regrets even after all the trouble: None.
Several pieces of what I presumed to be sound insulation and the fibrous underbelly cover were also replaced under CPO because they were soaked with diesel fuel. They also went through 3 cans of brake cleaner - which I was told was for the degreasing of the engine bay.
In the 4.5 months I've had the car, the following additional parts/problems were replaced or resolved all under CPO warranty or as a We Owe from the selling dealer:
- C/S: Check Engine Light on -- AdBlue tank heater replacement
- C/S: Rear heat zone blows hot. -- Rear A/C heater control valve replaced
- C/S: Rear speaker buzz/distort on moderate volumes -- Replaced Rear B+O Sub Module, replaced torn rear shelf insulation
- C/S: Replace windshield -- Replaced Windshield per sublet [This was part of the selling dealer's We Owe list]
- C/S: Abnormal humming "bearing noise" at speed -- Replaced L&R steering knuckle and wheel bearings, alignment performed. (This repair was particularly long - 2.5 weeks in the shop, but I did have a loaner)
- C/S: Passenger side puddle lamp Inop -- Checked bulb, Replaced Rear door Cmod
- C/S: Distronic disengages at speed w/error -- Found firmware update N/C
Only additional $$ I put in to it for new wheels and tires...the 20" factory options that it came with were not my style. Put 18" wheels and Continental tires on from Tirerack.
About on par for a 2013 W221 with less than 20k miles on it, I'd say. If I have time later, I'll post the generalized highlights from the VMI for the time before I owned the car....let's just say "engine mounts" 3x.
Feature that I like the most: Splitview.
Feature that I did not expect: The way the rear entertainment screens can also show navigation info.
Regrets even after all the trouble: None.
Last edited by apl175; 10-19-2015 at 12:44 AM.
10-19-2015, 12:48 AM
#25
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W 222 350 L
HI again
Good to here all is well with your 221...If it were not for the fire, I would still have my 221 ...I really loved that car, a great long distance cruiser which is why we bought it...Only time I ever lifted hood was to put water in windscreen washer, had a few minor warranty fixes early on, but other than that it was an awesome car.
The fuel hiccup was by injector 5...likely same one as yours and was in my opinion caused by slack maintenance the week before when it had its 40,000 km service
My new 222 is now 22,000 kms old in 17 months, mainly long distance cruising...best feature is fuel economy which can vary bit always between 5.9 litres per 100 kms...and say 7.00 litres per 100 kms...dependent on road conditions, ie freeway v urban roads...that is in your country about 40 MPG..
Take care and have a great day...Wizz
Good to here all is well with your 221...If it were not for the fire, I would still have my 221 ...I really loved that car, a great long distance cruiser which is why we bought it...Only time I ever lifted hood was to put water in windscreen washer, had a few minor warranty fixes early on, but other than that it was an awesome car.
The fuel hiccup was by injector 5...likely same one as yours and was in my opinion caused by slack maintenance the week before when it had its 40,000 km service
My new 222 is now 22,000 kms old in 17 months, mainly long distance cruising...best feature is fuel economy which can vary bit always between 5.9 litres per 100 kms...and say 7.00 litres per 100 kms...dependent on road conditions, ie freeway v urban roads...that is in your country about 40 MPG..
Take care and have a great day...Wizz
