Again, did you not read what I just posted? The difference is most likely in China. That is where Mercedes is getting killed at by BMW and Audi.

You keep going back to saying that all these discounts are given on the E, but you act like BMW doesn't discount the 5-Series and BMW has a cheapo model like the 528i with a 4-cylinder that Mercedes no answer for on the petrol side. Discounts only go so far, and a sales lead is that that a sales lead. BMW cheats its *** listing used cars twice just get a sale so you're a fool if you think BMW isn't just as desperate to move the 5-Series.

Maybe you don't know what an apology is. Apologizing would be me saying that Mercedes can't do these things. I'm saying to you that the things you listed outside of the ZF transmission and turbo 6-cylinder are BULL**** items because they can be had on any car nowadays so again it isn't like Mercedes can't do these things, they apparently haven't deemed HUD as relevant until now. You act like it is an airbag or antilock brakes or something. Man please. It is a lame **** point which fails.

TELL ME WHAT THE CHINESE PARTS ARE ON THE E-CLASS. LIST THEM. YOU CAN'T. HOW DO THEY AFFECT THE E-CLASS?

You keep going on an on about nothing. Lighting systems all bull**** items that you don't even know anything about until you google them. In car tech my ****, there is nothing more advanced in the BMW than there is in the Mercedes. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it so. The only thing you have is HUD, a turbo I6 and a better transmission that are better and/or things the E doesn't have vs the 5-Series.

Now Mercedes is focusing on cheap FWD? Did you not see the introduction of the S-Class, the upcoming Coupe, Convertible and stretched versions? Again, you don't know what you're talking about if you think that the A/B, CLA and the like are what they're "focusing" on. Mercedes is expanding at both ends of the market. Let me know when BMW comes up with a SLS, SL or S Coupe competitor or even anything over 150K. BMW wishes they had people lined up to buy their upper end cars like Mercedes does.


If the N55 is so reliable THEN AGAIN WHY ARE YOU LISTING IT AS A PROBLEM FOR BMW'S RELIABILITY VS MERCEDES WITH THEIR OLD TECH N/A V6?

YOU DON'T MAKE SENSE. IT CAN'T BE BOTH. DO YOU GET THAT?


IF THE N55 IS SO RELIABLE THEN WHY IS BMW BELOW AVERAGE IN RELIABILITY THEN? THE N55 CAN'T BE THE PROBLEM AND BE PROBLEM FREE AT THE SAME TIME.


That paragraph about the CLA is the dumbest thing you've posted in while. You simply don't get that Mercedes and BMW have to expand to survive otherwise VW/Audi will swallow them whole based on their much larger economies of scale. BMW and Mercedes have no choice. Audi is likely going to take over BMW in sales worldwide and cars like the CLA and 1-Series are needed. You want Mercedes to go out of business by sticking to just building S-Classes?


M

 

So because they've gotten extremely competitive that is a problem now? When are they supposed to introduce new models?

Chip away at what? What will happen when this happens? Due tell.

Saturation in a growing market? A market that Mercedes is expanding in at both ends?

You keep repeating things that no one is debating. We all know what the stock tea leaves are reading. No question Mercedes has fallen in some areas, but according to you bringing out fresh new product and introducing product more often is a problem too? I mean what do you expect them to do?

Mercedes has the largest lineup, but the cars that they have that Audi and BMW don't have vastly more expensive cars like the SL, CL, G etc. Audi makes more FWD cheapo models in China than anyone. BMW and Mercedes have the same amount of models on the floor now.

X1 - No Mercedes yet
X3 - GLK
X5 - ML
No BMW yet - GL
X6 - No Mercedes yet

3 - C
5 - E
7 - S

6 - No direct from MB
Z4 - SLK

The only MB models that BMW doesn't have a direct competitor for are the SLS, CL, SL and G-Classes. All low volume, pricey models.

The GL is the only mainstream product that sells in big numbers that BMW doesn't have an answer for. Their lineups are a wash. BMW sells a ****eload of 3 and now 4-Series models compared to Mercedes' top end cars that costs double what most BMWs cost. That is what YOU need to think about and grasp. That is where their sales advantage comes from at least in the U.S. or used to come from since they are behind MB now here. Clearly you aren't looking at the full picture just by stating MB has more models on the floor.

The CLA just arrived.

M

 

-Uhh, does China not count? The F10 also outsells the E in GERMANY, a FIRST. The F10 simply outclassed and surpassed the E with authority never seen before, period. The fact that it would even encroach on E sales would be a testament, however the fact that it surpassed so widely even though the E gets an artificial sales boost from a "Coupe" model and insanely aggressive discounts is even more telling.

The E gets discounted 2-3x MORE than the 5! Discounts aren't equal! They have to blow E's out at 3 Series pricing to get near 5 Series sales in the States and even then they NEED a Coupe to combine sales to even slightly surpass 5 SEDAN sales.

The E uses almost half Chinese parts, it's why the car feels and acts cheaper than it should in this price point, or maybe it's engineering setbacks, or design setbacks. Pick one (or combine them). An about-facelift to such an extent shows M-B clearly saw this themselves.

Of course, anything M-B doesn't do is "bull***" in your world. I give you a laundry list of BMW superiorities and they're "bull****. 30% more stiffness, 25% less cheap Chinese parts, more tech, more features, better drivetrain, yeah, that's all bull****! LOL. As long as it has the Star then it's good!

BMW is below average in reliability because they usually bring newer features and more cutting edge drivetrains to the markets. As I explained and pointed out to you, which as usual was met with apologist denial. Even then, I agree M-B is usually the reliability leader.... because they keep things simpler. BMW focuses on quality of drive and materials these days to me. The last time M-B was TRULY cutting edge was the W220/W211 generation and they were reliability disasters, which is why M-B have been so careful for so long since then.

If M-B didn't allow themselves to get into such a mess they wouldn't have to release such a joke of a car that the CLA is. A FWD Mercedes with bean-bag proportions, horrible interior space, not to mention desperately gaudy and insta-dated fuzzy lines and gimmicky scoops meant to emulate a Fast & Furious generation of a decade+ ago? Nice.

 

WHAT ARE THE CHINESE PARTS IN THE E-CLASS? HOW DO THEY AFFECT THE E-CLASS? WHAT PARTS OF THE E-CLASS ARE CHINESE AND HOW DO THEY AFFECT THE E-CLASS IN RELATION TO THE 5-SERIES?

Until you can answer this COMMON SENSE QUESTION, you don't know what you're talking about.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE BREAKOUT AS WHAT THE E-CLASS SEDAN VS COUPE/CONVERTIBLE SALES ARE VS THE 5-SERIES SEDANS SO AGAIN YOU'RE TRYING TO PASS OFF YOUR BULL**** GUESSWORK AS FACT. FACT IS YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT UNLESS YOU HAVE THE SALES FIGURES BREAKOUT PER MODEL FOR THE E-CLASS. WHERE ARE THEY?


"BMW is below average in reliability because they usually bring newer features and more cutting edge drivetrains to the markets. As I explained and pointed out to you, which as usual was met with apologist denial.

WHAT ARE THE FEATURES? IF THE N55 ENGINE IS RELIABLE THEN THAT ISN'T IT.

IS IT LEDs? SOMETHING THAT NON LUXURY CARS HAVE NOW?

IS IT THE ZF TRANSMISSION?

IF THE N55 ENGINE IS RELIABLE THEN WHEN IS THE BLEEDING EDGLE TECH THAT BMW HAS OVER MERCEDES THAT IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM.

WHAT IS NEW FEATURES THAT BMW HAS BROUGHT TO MARKET THAT HAS CAUSED THEM TO HAVE RELIABILITY PROBLEMS?

HUD?

LEDS?

N55?

8 SPEED 8HP ZF TRANSMISSION?


WHAT IS THE TECH BMW HAS THAT MB DOESN'T THAT IS CAUSING THEIR RELIABILITY SUCK?

LIST THEM.


YOU CAN'T.


M

 

Yet you can't list anything but HUD and LED and a Parking Brake. Seems to me that if this was true about me and Mercedes I would have bought another one. Again, no clue about what you're talking about.

M

 

All caps, really?

The E is made of 40% Chinese parts! The denial is so thick on you! It is MADE OF CHEAP CHINESE PARTS! That's why it's such an inferior product, amongst other issues.

BMW is more bleeding edge in entire drivetrain, chassis (remember, the W222 is JUST NOW basically matching the F10 chassis rigidity, just barely surpassing it) and electronics, and that isn't enough for you? LOL.

Unless you want to pretend that the E Coupe doesn't sell at all, then yeah maybe the E Sedan outsells the 5 Sedan. However, logistically, the E Coupe accounts for enough sales to put the E Sedan behind the 5 Sedan, even though the E gets BLOW OUT discounts at 3 Series prices. Regardless, Global sales matter the most, and that's where the F10 is crushing the E even WITH the E Coupe artificially boosting its sales, and even though the E is the worldwide taxi of choice.

You chose a BMW because your brain acknowledged it to be a superior product. So much so that you bought the most illogically inflatedly priced BMW out there (not a knock towards you or saying it's a bad move, the 6 Series is just that timelessly and effortlessly gorgeous), however your sentimentality towards M-B runs so thick that your heart seems unable to believe that they've lost their way even when you're faced with a plethora of evidence stating so.

 

NO one is denying it. See how you can't answer the question.

CAPS is because you seem not be able to read a simple question.

What are the parts and how do they affect the E-Class? Is it the engine, transmission, seats, mirrors, leather, what are the parts? It is a very simple question that you simply can't answer.

"BMW is more bleeding edge in entire drivetrain, chassis (remember, the W222 is JUST NOW basically matching the F10 chassis rigidity) and electronics, and that isn't enough for you? "

Nope, nor would it be enough for anyone with common sense. This is a clear admission that you don't have anything. Parking brake? A JOKE. LEDs and HUD? These are the cutting edge things?

Chassis rigidity? Now the S-Class is only matching the 5-Series? PROVE IT. LINKS TO THE FACTS PLEASE. ASAP. PROOF NEEDED.

Let me get this straight because BMWs has better chassis rigidity, they have more problems than Mercedes? Is that what you're trying to say here?

"Unless you want to pretend that the E Coupe doesn't sell at all, then yeah maybe the E Sedan outsells the 5 Sedan. However, logistically, the E Coupe accounts for enough sales to put the E Sedan behind the 5 Sedan, even though the E gets BLOW OUT discounts at 3 Series prices. Regardless, Global sales matter the most, and that's where the F10 is crushing the E even WITH the E Coupe artificially boosting its sales, and even though the E is the worldwide taxi of choice."

AGAIN, WHO IS PRETENDING. NEITHER YOU NOR I HAVE THE MODEL BREAKOUT SO AGAIN YOU'RE TALKING OUT THE SIDE OF YOUR NECK. NOW UNLESS YOU HAVE THE FIGURES, DUE TELL.

E-Class is used for Taxi duty as are BMWs. Fact is E is used more because it is a much more durable car. That is no put down. Mercedes' reputation was built on it.

"You chose a BMW because your brain acknowledged it to be a superior product. So much so that you bought the most illogically inflatedly priced BMW out there (not a knock towards you or saying it's a bad move, the 6 Series is just that timelessly and effortlessly gorgeous), however your sentimentality towards M-B runs so thick that your heart seems unable to believe that they've lost their way even when you're faced with a plethora of evidence stating otherwise."

No I bought a BMW because the Mercedes I really wanted was less attractive, the SL. The SL is a clearly superior car to the 6er from build to tech an everything else, but not nearly as pretty so my situation is different from yours with the 5 vs the E.

No the difference between you and I is that I don't make idiotic statements about why I chose this over that and then try to trash the car or brand that I didn't choose with loose or no facts. BIG DIFFERENCE.

You keep saying that the E has Chinese parts but you can't list them. Yet the problem you have with the E is the ride/engine and tech. I asked you before if you thought the engine, transmission or suspension came from China? You're not retarded. You know those things are German made and and engineered. They just aren't what you like, we get that, but you act like because you discovered BMW that a Mercedes is now junk.

Just like now you keep talking about this advanced tech that BMW has over Mercedes that is causing BMW reliability problems, yet according to you the N55 engine is perfectly reliable. It can't be both. If it is a superior, "bleeding edge" item over Mercedes' N/A V6 (which it is) then how is it a problem for BMW if it is reliable to a fault then?

Then you list HUD, LEDs and a E parking brake? THIS IS UTTER BULL**** AND CAN BE FOUND ANY WANNABE LUXURY CAR. Clearly if Mercedes wanted to do these things they would have.....yet the only one of these that is missing is HUD because if I remember right the new SL has a electronic parking brake. So does the Ford Fusion I just had as a rental. Point being this is not "bleeding edge" technology.

I more than anyone has said that MB has lost their way but then you blame them now for being competitive. What do they do when Audi and BMW are expanding at the lower end? Just sit back and watch? Again, selling just S-Classes will put them out of business.

You're new found hater role of Mercedes Benz runs just as thick and it would be ok if you actually knew what what you were talking about. You can't answer simple questions to validate your claims on several things, yet when you do answer you aren't saying ****.

Bleeding edge tech: E Parking Brake, LEDs, HUD and ZF's 8-Speed transmission oh and the reliable N55. Again, WHICH OF THESE YOU LISTED ARE CAUSING BMW RELIABILITY PROBLEMS VS MERCEDES-BENZ??? IT IS A SIMPLE ENOUGH QUESTION.


M

 

Firstly, I said BMW tend to bring more bleeding-edge tech to the market which is why they may suffer more "teething problems". I listed that they are more bleeding edge in those various ways. Whether or not each of those parts may or may not cause reliability (teething) issues is irrelevant to the fact that it's been BMW's culture. More advanced tech, more advanced drivetrains, these are things that can naturally cause more problems as they are more "daring". Not to mention BMW's run more "hyper" by nature, they're meant to not only feel as (or more) luxurious as a Benz, but they're meant to handle well, uphold 50/50 weight distributions and get your blood pumping when need be, they walk many more lines these days.

It doesn't matter to me where the E's Chinese parts are, all that matters is that almost half the car is Chinese material, which means the parts are everywhere, your denial is forcing you to complicate a very simple matter. The E is only 50% physically German, the 5 Series is 75% physically German. I don't want a car overflowing with cost-cut Chinese parts at this price bracket, I want a German made car, built in Germany. Period. Look at the quality of materials and build all throughout the F10 and higher quality parts makes perfect sense.

The F10 has a factual torsional rigidity figure of 38K nm's while M-B stated the W222 has a figure of about 42K nm's. Again, that goes to show you how over-engineered the chassis of the F10 is, thanks to the fact that not only is it the basis of the 7 Series, but more importantly the $300++K Rolls Royce Ghost. This to me is why the F10 is so vastly holistically superior to anything else in its price bracket, it's literally engineered as a core to be capable as a far more expensive car.

And yes, aside from BMW's vast drivetrain, infotainment and design innovations, things like E-parking brake and HUD are huge things. Such as BMW's automatic brake-hold over M-B's analogue. I don't get it, it's like you think features and aspects of cars don't mean anything. M-B's 1940's "break your ankle" E-brake is far from a refined example of what a modern day luxury should feel like. It's one of many things that make current M-B's far lacking from current BMW's, IMO, just like the E Class using plastic/rubber weather stripping instead of the elegant carpeting used in the 5 Series, or the E having a tiny screen in favor of the BMW widescreen, or a low resolution, etc. etc.

 

Double post (prob the Govt. shutdown's fault).

 

T-A you are right BMW does have more crappy cars out there, more than anybody else, and yes, that's what hurts their reliability. The N55 is crap, nothing smooth about it and still have the same issues. The more this T-A guy talk, got me wondering if he even own a 5 series, a 535i is nothing to brag about, specially in a w222 forum, just how plain dumb and stupid he sounds, even funnier when he compare his 5 series f10 to the RR ghost which has nothing in common with the 5 series. The W220, w221, w222 has always been the car to beat, nothing else come close, the 7 series, which is the flagship of BMW looks the same as a 3 and 5 series from the front, and what's up with that fugly side profile on the 5 series? Is that for the dynamic edge T-A kept talking about?

 

If BMW are such great cars, why is it I rarely see a older model on the road? like I see 80s and 90s MB on a daily basis, aim I missing something? The 94-2001 7 series was the best car bmw ever made, they also had something going for them with the Z8, but, in typical BMW fashion, took a step backward.

 

I second that Magic. And there is a reason that the taxis are primarily Mercedes- they are solid and withstand the wear and tear. I live in New England and it is rare to see a ten year old BMW on the road.

I've had four BMWs. They are fun to drive when new but do not age well. Interestingly, I pulled into a BMW dealership one day last week to look around. I thought I was in the used car section, only to realize upon seeing the window stickers, that they were new. The BMWs look plain and dated.

 

Oh, and they had a new 5 series with a sign in the window- special price of $35,000. So don't talk about discounting Es.

 

K-A ie Know it All, you are as popular here as on the E forum.

Closing in on 10,000 posts. You need a girlfriend who puts out more. You are wasting your youth on the MB forum.

 

Now you say "tend to" which isn't even true because again, the things you listed aren't cutting edge. What part of this don't you grasp.

E-Parking Brake
HUD
Turbo I6
ZF 8-Speed Trans
LEDs

ARE NOT CUTTING EDGE ITEMS, THEY ARE FOUND ON MANY CARS.

AGAIN WHAT ARE THE ISSUES WITH THESE ITEMS THAT ARE CAUSING BMW'S RELIABILITY TO SUFFER?

YOU CAN'T SAY THAT THE N55 ENGINE IS RELIABLE AND THEN CLAIM BECAUSE IT IS "BLEEDING EDGE" TECH THAT IT IS COSTING BMW POINTS IN RELIABILITY.

WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU GRASP? IT CAN'T BE BOTH! YOU KEEP REPEATING THE SAME BULL**** OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

The N55 engine can't be a problem and be reliable at the same time.

PROVE THAT ANY OF THOSE ITEMS YOU LISTED ARE WHAT IS CAUSING BMW'S RELIABILITY TO SUFFER. YOU CAN'T WHICH IS WHY YOU'RE NOW SAYING "TEND TO" AND GENERALLY ARE STUCK REPEATING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER.

PROVE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WITH FACT NOT A HUNCH OR A GUESS.


If the E-Class has problems (per you) with ride, handling, old V6 engine, then it sure as hell makes a difference what parts of the car are "Chinese" made.

WHAT ARE THE CHINESE MADE PARTS IN THE E-CLASS AND HOW DO THEY AFFECT THE E-CLASS? YOU SIMPLY DON'T KNOW AND CAN'T GIVE AN ANSWER TO THIS VERY BASIC, COMMON SENSE QUESTION.

AGAIN, ARE THE ENGINE, TRANSMISSION, SUSPENSION, SEATS, NAV, WINDSHIELD, CUP HOLDERS, WIPER BLADES CHINESE MADE? DO YOU KNOW?

So if the BMW is at 38H and the S-Class is at 42H (just using your numbers) then the 5-Series DOES NOT "MATCH" THE S-CLASS THEN. Your word was "MATCH". Lies. It does not match it. WTF deemed the 5-Series over engineered? You? You don't know squat to even be able to say that. Only what you can gleam from a press release or google.

"And yes, aside from BMW's vast drivetrain, infotainment and design innovations, things like E-parking brake and HUD are huge things. Such as BMW's automatic brake-hold over M-B's analogue. I don't get it, it's like you think features and aspects of cars don't mean anything. M-B's 1940's "break your ankle" E-brake is far from a refined example of what a modern day luxury should feel like. It's one of many things that make current M-B's far lacking from current BMW's, IMO, just like the E Class using plastic/rubber weather stripping instead of the elegant carpeting used in the 5 Series, or the E having a tiny screen in favor of the BMW widescreen, or a low resolution, etc. etc"

What vast drivetrain infotainment and design innovations are those? The ZF 8-Speed is superior, yes, the Turbo I6 is superior to MB's N/A V6, yep, but neither technology is "bleeding edge". HUD, E brake are huge things to who? You? The fact that these things can be found on many cars and not on every Mercedes proves that MB obviously didn't deem them important and clearly these aren't "bleeding edge" technology. Ford Fusion Titanium has a electronic parking brake. Now you're down to rubber in weather stripping. Do you know how pitiful you sound trying to make a case for BMW about a damn parking brake? Do you really think Mercedes can't do such a thing? Hint, the SL has one. HUD and an e brake are NMFFs and can be found in much cheaper cars.

You've lost the plot and didn't know what you were talking about in the first place. NOTHING you've given is bleeding edge technology and can be found anywhere. Mercedes' turbo V8s are the same principle as the BMW I6. Turbos and direct injection. That is used in both of their lineup, Mercedes I4s and V8s, just not on the V6s (yet) so again you're trying to paint a picture that isn't there. To say that BMW tends to introduce new tech is bull****. Mercedes has had many firsts that BMW can't even compare with and you know it.

If those items are bleeding edge then prove that they are problem with BMW's reliability. Where is the survey, where is the breakout of the problems? Prove it. You can't.

You mean like how you can see the exterior paint color on the INSIDE of your car through the door jabs? Is that the luxury feel that you're talking about. You're so desperate to reach for something that you forgot about the campaign you waged to tell the world on GCF about how this made BMW's so cheap. Do you even remember that? Tell me what you see when you look at your passenger side door jab when driving. Do the 500K BRAND NEW BMWs with rusting dashboards straight from the factory figure into this quality image also?

Dude you're done, have a seat.


M

 

Again, you deny and apologize.

5 Series: 75% German. E: 40% Chinese. 5 has superior tech, drive train, chassis, interior materials, safety and drives vastly better in every way. This is what "bleeding edge" implies. The design was done so well that BMW could find nothing to change for the facelift. It was the opposite case for the E.

These adults flinging childish, misinformed ad hominem and all caps psycho rants my way shows that I won this argument long ago. This is just my victory lap.

 

K/A here are your words on BMW just 1 year ago:



Now BMW is top tops right?

M

 

The F chassis BMW's are on another level of build quality from BMWs before them, so history means little to how they'll age. The chassis rigidity of the F10 is so over engineered that even the new W222 BARELY surpasses it. Which means again the next 5 will have a far more rigid chassis than MB's S Class. That speaks to how BMW builds their cars for the long haul these days (not to mention the tank like feel of the 5 that surpasses Mercedes IMO).

 

Apparently you're SOS.

Is the engine, transmission of the E-Class Chinese? Is the interior made in China? All I'm doing is asking you to identify the parts that are Chinese made? You can't. Not apologizing or denying anything, asking you to specify. Engine, transmission. You're an idiot if you think you've won anything here. YOU CAN'T EVEN ANSWER BASIC QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING YOU'VE POSTED.

No argument with the facelift. That needed a change.

No, it is called calling you out on your bull****.

Fact is that you can't answer anything or prove anything you post about.

This isn't even about which car is better, that can be argued all day long, this is about a person who makes all these big claims but can come up with anything to prove it when called out.

You're done. Owned and Toasted.


M

 

My god man you can't be this limited. Do you not understand that every time the Germans (or anyone) introduce a new car that chassis rigidity goes up? To move up 4-6 points is a given with ANYONE not just BMW. You're acting like this is unheard of. Get off the gas.

M

 

That's referring to the 3 Series which is far different from the F10. And yes back then I was clinging to the notion that there was something special about MB. My disdain toward BMW at the time was mostly denial and it was pretty transparent.

Now I have a far more experienced first hand experience with both brands and know exactly what's what, unlike you speaking on cars you've only test drive for a few minutes.

BMW are far from perfect. But in the mid size segment, amongst others, they're liking MB. And with my recent knowledge and experiences gained, I actually know this.

 

LOL oh great defender of MB. When the new S BARELY surpasses the F10 in rigidity there's something wrong. Period.

HALF of the E Class is Chinese. HALF! The parts are everywhere and you can tell!

Yeah yeah, I get it, done and toasted, you wish.

 

You mean like you're clinging to the notion that there is something more special about BMW? You're just as lost now on BMW as you were then on MB.

I got it, now that you own a 5-Series for a year you're an expert on BMW right?

You don't know ****e as your history proves. In the next few years you will discover another brand or flop back to Mercedes if your BMW gives you trouble.

M

 

Really says who? Prove it from an engineering standpoint that there is problem. Prove it with facts from a credible source. Much larger car than the 5-Series and it is more rigid would make the S-Class' figure a triumph in my limited, common sense based opinion. A smaller car like the 5er would be easier to make more rigid. Even you should be able to follow that.


WHAT ARE THE CHINESE PARTS IN THE E-CLASS?

Notice how you have less and less to say now? Clearly you're done. Now you'll nitpick the little scraps you have left.

Waiting to hear an engineers view as to why there is problem with the chassis rigidity with the S-Class.

M

 

Wrong. I factually know and have proof that there are superiorities within BMW. I will always choose what's best to me. Mercedes was a nostalgia thing but I couldn't help but finally realize the F10 was everything I ever wished from MB. Now I know why personally.... because it was. Mercedes let me down, big time, but it was a learning experience and I grew from it.

If BMW slip up the same way then hell yeah I'll go somewhere different and say how much better the new one is. The world doesn't stay still. However, right now BMW make the best car for me and all they have to do is keep it up.