Why do you guys argue with that troll K-A i.e. "Know it All". He does the same thing on the E forum. He is a bore.

He has never seen or driven the new S class and he is pontificating on something he knows nothing about.

 

Moderator: Please relocate this to a place on the forum where someone gives a Sh#! or the dead horse section's sub section of very dead horse

 

Actually BMW chassis' had to be engineered to uphold the ride quality and stiffness of a Rolls, hence the overengineered solidity and IMO dynamics of the BMW chassis' these days (in terms of LUXURY and Sport), not to mention massive overweight nature.

Again, you're speaking in terms of a magazine reviewers perspective, i.e cars that are loud, raw and singularly sporty. New BMW's have added a plethora of luxury that IMO in many ways surpasses anything Mercedes has put out to date (aside from the W222, assuming), not to mention puts them at another level higher than any BMW that came out before the F chassis cars. The actual definition of "dynamic" would make more sense to apply holistically to an F10 than an E60 for example, which was really good at one thing but lacking in many others (when you compare it to an F10). The reason I say it's still very "dynamic" is because with the right setup the F10 is still sporty and can get your blood flowing in a way no non-AMG Mercedes can nor is intended to.... i.e I see it as dynamic because while the F10 does that it is also simultaneously extraordinarily comfortable and luxurious.

The GS is a really good car and I totally understand why you'd love it. It wasn't "my language" per-se but it felt very balanced in its drive, far more balanced than the messy ride of the E Class, for example.

Actually I have seen a W222 driving in person, and IMO it looked worse in person than I think it does in pics.

Also, confirming my viewpoint of BMW being ahead of the game in terms of luxury cars with sporting dynamics, AutoBild gave the old F01 a victory over the new W222 (7 got #1, W222 S got #2 and Panamera got #3), stating ride comfort & dynamics were superior on the 7 to the S and the 7's design is ahead of the S. Again, IMO Mercedes is engineering the worst ride dynamics on the market these days, which is something I'd been saying since I had (and adored) my W212's.

 

one of the worst ways to start a sentence : "Actually......."

there's nothing more obnoxious and pretentious!

now, GO AND DRIVE THE CAR AND THEN COME BACK

 

Actually, I agree with you Hype.

 

just sayin'

 

Unfortunately much of this thread is garbage, touting irrelevant cars that somehow are supposed mean anything in relation to the new W222.

Much of K-A's comments are clearly designed to incite angry responses to his inflammatory drivel and it's working...

I am ignoring that and and am still optimistic to find some useful information between the noise as I plan to get the car when once the right model and options are available here.

Re. the German AutoBild article posted here, I saw read that and was surprised about the negative comments and result.
Funny thing is that the same magazine had a 6 car comparo a month ago and the same S-Class beat the same 7 Series to 1st place. Go figure

I just spent some time in Germany & Switzerland and had the chance to check out a couple W222's and spend some quality time in different models at Mercedes.

To some extend I can see why there are so many different opinions about the same car. Taking in a bare bone S350 versus a loaded S500 aka S550, the look and feel is dramatically different.

The short wheel base S350 with 18" wheels (in black), black "standard" leather and walnut and the S550 Designo in White/Blue.

My first impression of the S350 from the side was it's strong resemblance to the W220 (in a good way) but it was sitting tall (looked raised; I easily could put my fist between the tire and the top of the wheel well) and with small wheels & the short wheelbase, the car looked somewhat unimpressive and a bit bland.
With the stock leather (look and smell), I had an immediate deja vu of the W221 S550. My impression was that the interior was a bit nondescript, but on par with the prior US model.
So overall better than the W221, but not by a whole lot.

That was very different with the S500 long wheel base; the car was lower, had much more presence and a stunning interior. The white brought out the lines of the car much more and the porcellain/blue Designo interior was just beautiful.
The car had a completely different smell to itself and it was the best Mercedes experience and a step up from the W221 S600/S65.

I would definitely recommend looking at these in White, Silver or Gray rather than black. It just looks better...

Walking away from the S500 and getting back in our 2 month old Audi A8 rental, it felt like a huge step down.
And the A8 was not your typical rental car, but loaded...

Neither the A8 or the 7 series has the presence of the new S

 

Hey...I can chime in here. I completely agree with you both. Hype I like the fact that you just appreciate your cars and have fun with them. That is the way it is supposed to be!!!
I would wager that a professional driver could not tell the difference in the chassis stiffness between MB and BMW. Maybe the S is not as holistic as the BMW 5 series. But Mercedes Benz is doing great things across the lineup. The S is stunning....does it look like an E Class...the E coupe...no the C coupe (same chassis as the E)...no...a CLS...no...I think you get my drift. Can you tell a 1 series, 3 series from a 5 series from the 7 series...well not really...the only recognizable difference is size in inches. So BMW brings out the NEW 4 series coupe that really is the 3 series coupe only inches bigger. Yes, there is an M4 and a new M6. Do they looky just the same...yes, different in size but basically just the same. Same for the 4 series and the 6 series coupes different size same looks. BMW owners have this way of rationalizing BMW's design as classic...timeless...heavenly. These are all flowery terms for BORING!!! Not too many owners who debadge their cars would ever debadge a BMW. Nobody who isn't in the know would have a clue to what you're driving. Of course it would be even worse to debadge an M sport. Why even BMW tries to sell their customers that it is an M. Springs...shocks...struts...sway bars...turns this car (5 series) into a herculean scalpel. Components easily replaced on any car and I might add by alot of non MB AMG owners.
Recently, BMW has lost every magazine comparison they have competed in. Both to Audi and Lexus.

My point here is that you should love the car you own...stay away from all of the statistics crap...if when you drive the car it feels right...it is right. If when you walk away from the car...it requires a look back just to admire it...it's right.

In my mind...even though I haven't driven one and I will never own one the S Class is such a car.

 

BMW rank 15th in the world in quality, quality is the most important factor when buying a car, the only thing these 2 companies have in common is that they are both German car maker, why are we comparing such a crappy brand to any cars in our line? Personally, I don't care about reviewers, they can be bias. T-A guy is here to get you guys excited, just read the header, do you really think this guy know anything about these cars, he searched the Internet for the negative stuff and pretend to know it all, he mentioned that he has seen the w222 in the street, lol. The 2013 7 series can't compare to the w221 in style or in any other category, of course reviewers will always find ways to tell you otherwise. BMW will never consider a strong contender in the automotive world, that day has been long gone, that's why they have resorted to attack ads on Mercedes, as a result we are getting some kick *** MB cars all across the board, that my friend is how we do our trash talk. Steegrey- you can't debadge a BMW, It will look like a Hyundai.

 

Actually ( ).... the next gen C Class which has basically had its full exterior already spy'd/shown looks literally identical to the W222 S, so the S' "uniqueness" within the MB lineup will more or less cease come mid-late 2014. MB seem to be following the "same sausage" formula to a "T" more and more these days.

Why do I get the feeling that this is you:

 

Given that this thread was nearly dead for a peaceful week, until K-A decided to resurrect it to continue the silliness - it kind of points out that it has run its course. Another thread ruined and it should probably be closed...

Edit: How about that quality? http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/28/b...-brake-recall/

 

You're confusing reliability with refinement. New MB's aren't as refined as BMWs IMO in neither drive, materials, tech or drivetrain/chassis. BMW is more-so on the bleeding edge than MB which helps explain reliability differences. Last time MB launched bleeding edge cars they were disasters (W220 gen).

MB's are much more reliable these days but to me it comes off the back of being more fundamentally analogue and simplistic and in ways dated. Not a bad thing, mind you.

As for recalls, they all have them and MB certainly have their fair share.

 

Just go away K-A ie: Know it All. This new S class is most probably out of your snack bracket anyway.

Your negativity is getting very, very long in the tooth plus you are boring.

Buy buy, adios, adieu....

 

We're gonna have to disagree on refinement.

The N20 is rough and loud in comparison to the M271EVO regardless of which car the N20 is in.

iDrive requires too many clicks to do anything, and having the hard buttons placed around the iDrive controller takes too much attention from the road until you learn where the buttons are by feel. I also find MB's Linguatronic to be much more responsive than BMW's voice control.

I was in a 2011 328i xDrive for a month while my car was in the body shop. Other than the horrible fuel economy I was having with it - in general it felt rough around the edges and heavy. For being the supposed handling benchmark, I came away unimpressed. In that month, all of my initial impressions when I was cross shopping the e90 with the w204 were further solidified. Stepping back into my own car, it felt tighter, more responsive and light on its feet in comparison.

 

Ah, actual conversation. I can get down with that. Yes the N20 isn't the smoothest motor (no 4 cylinder is, IMO) but it's really one of the most impressive 4 cylinders on a performance and efficiency basis in the world. A 328i really flies for what you get and can get your blood flowing while the C250 for all its charm feels slug slow and uninspired if you ask me. There's no comparison between the two when it comes to dynamics although I'm a big fan of the W204 and find it more refined overall. Unfortunately both motors sound terrible to me. To note, there's a HUGE gap in refinement between the current 3 and 5 Series' as they have totally different chassis basis' (3 shared with 1 Series and 5 shared with 7 and even Ghost) while IMO the facelift C Class is very close to the E Class finish.

IDrive can seem complicated at first but really is intuitive and to me makes COMAND look and feel Atari-esque dated. IDrive display, comprehensiveness and speed are far more fit for premium cars, IMO. To note, iDrive saw big improvements in 2013 and now is leaving the current COMAND outside of the W222 truly in the dust with its 2014 iteration. My 2013 iDrive I find to have the best voice control of any car I've used while my pre-facelift W212's had such crappy voice control they were practically unusable. I several times could be spotted yelling like a madman at the car to do a simple task like make a phone call.

 

Why we are still debating with this troll, everyone of his bmw is better than our MB, according to this idiot, BMW made the first car and he has it in his Garage to prove it. T-A, drives a bmw 535i aka (Hyundai Elantra) wanna be, just look at the side profile, that F-10 is to kill for, all the valet attendants fight over it.
BMW has nothing out right now that earn the wow factor, Audi has the S8 and R8, we have the S550, ClS550, Cl550, E350,SLS,G-class and anything AMG these are cars that people from all walk of life wants to be seen in and admire, I have never heard any kid or adult wishing to have a bmw when they get older, they are not desirable cars as you may hope for T-A, even your wife will admire the guy with the Benz over your 5 series. MB makes cars for pure luxury, for sport MB has the AMG line, BMW makes sport sedan, that has the look of Hyundai cars and reliability of the old Ford cars, so I don't get the point of comparing these cars, as for the W222, you don't know crap about it, I saw the car in person and I would have to say it looks way better in person than the pictures I've seen in here, for now it is in a class of its own, not even Bentley and RR can touch it, for that price tag, it is a Bargain, hope MB carry that statement throughout its line of cars, as it usually does, if that the case, we are looking at some real beauty queens down the line.

 

Yeah they had to do that for Rolls, but what they lost in dynamics has put them behind Lexus, Cadillac and Jaguar in 5 and 7 Series classes, that is what you don't get here. They're bloated, overweight pigs now, yet you (johnny come lately to BMW) keep harping about how dynamic they are compared to Mercedes, when BMW has always had the dynamic edge over MB. That is nothing new. Saying that a BMW is more dynamic than a Mercedes isn't saying anything, yet unlike years before BMW used to lead the class in dynamics and now they don't do that. Lexus and Jaguar and Audi and Cadillac aren't producing raw, hard riding cars either, they're better rounded than BMWs are.

Now you take one test where Mercedes didn't wow the editors and you think that Mercedes has the worst ride/handling dynamics. That is the dumbest ****e you have said yet. Have you read the 100s of other tests of the new S-Class? The one test is an extreme OUTLIER in a sea of many tests that clearly state that the new S-Class rides better than nearly anything else on the road. Your "opinion" is just flat wrong. You're basing it ONE test by the same group (magazines) that you just stated don't know what they're talking about. You can't have it both ways.

Further what you cluelessly don't grasp is that Mercedes isn't marketing the S-Class as some sports sedan. The 7-Series is sportier, but missed the boat in so many way compared to the new S-Class it isn't even funny. People don't buy dynamics in this segment. They buy comfort, quality, technology, etc, not outright dynamics. The 7er is as dated as a typewriter compared to this new S-Class. What in the world is your problem?

M

 

Please tell me how BMW is more "bleeding edge" than Mercedes is an how that is affecting BMW's reliability. What piece of technology does BMW have that is causing problems for them that Mercedes doesn't have. I ask because that is what you're implying here. What is dated in the Mercedes vs the BMW?

M

 

Johnny-come-lately huh. I passed my driving test in an E34, the first car I ever drove was an E32. The first manual I ever drove was another E34. I used to drive an E39 around which is the car that made me fall in love with BMW. I was driving an E60 (the car that made me fall out of love with BMW) for weeks during the time I was shopping for my first Benz (W220). I used to ride around in a Dinan TT V12 8 Series regularly, and spent much of my childhood in various 3 Series', E34 5 Series' and an E28. My Mom had a BMW Coupe with a manual tranny before I was even born. I know more about BMW than you clearly can imagine.

What BMW did was maintain their dynamic edge over M-B yet ALSO crushed M-B in luxury this generation, which makes BMW more dynamic than M-B than they've ever been. They kept their sportiness edge yet captured M-B's luxury crown with authority.

What you're not getting is BMW is making better all around cars now than ever to the point where you're oblivious to the fact that they brought YOU, a card-carrying M-B fanboy into their brand, not to mention me who was also for a briefer moment a card-carrying M-B super-fan, because they've gathered a newfound sense of luxury which IMO is above anything M-B has ever done (save for perhaps the W222) which is due to BMW having the keys to the RR brand, which in turn is why the cars are so heavy YET why they are so over-engineered in stiffness, safety and luxury. Again, the W222 has practically the same torsional stiffness as the F10, to draw you some perspective here.

Autobild claims the 7 rides more comfortable AND more sporty than the new S, which has been my argument all along (now multiply that by drastically and you've got the F10's ride edge over the ailing W212). Yeah, yeah, I know, when an M-B loses a comparo it's always the magazine editor and journalists who are "idiots". The F01 I find is a more intriguing car than the W222 because it's more timelessly and balanced-ly styled IMO and is probably more dynamic in driving. However, yes, it's technically "dated" from the W222, which the next 7 will fix next year.

Where's M-B's 300+ Rear Wheel Torque 6 cylinder which makes peak power at a whopping 1,200 RPM's that can get well over 30 MPG (closest thing just coming out, years after BMW) and operate with silky smoothness (M-B 6's have never been known for their smoothness or performance). Where's M-B's HUD? Where's M-B's iDrive competing infotainment system? How about M-B's Casio screen display? Where's M-B's E-parking brake? M-B is almost always last to bring "trending" things to the market, even things as little as LED license plate lights took them years after BMW and Lexus did it. LED DRL's they were late to the game on, yet as usual they overcompensate by going too gaudily far in the trend once they do catch on.

How about M-B's ZF8 competitor after all these years? Oh, yeah, the 7G which was a POS when it launched is, right?

BMW cars are packed with far more tech than M-B's and they regularly bring them to the market first, and the W222 isn't even on the floors yet so I'm not counting that, and as far as I'm concerned it took them long enough, and it still has no HUD, standard Keyless Go, and is stuck with the old 7G.

Oh, I forgot, M-B did bring something new to the table in the States, an awkwardly proportioned, pinched-roof FWD 4 banger that starts at sub-$30K.... great job upholding the cachet that your forefathers bestowed upon the company you now have the privilege to control, Daimler execs.

 

Again, you and I can go back and forth all day with experiences with BMW, but again if you're touting that they have a dynamic edge over Mercedes you're not saying anything that hasn't been the case since they both became popular in the luxury car market. You aren't saying anything and you continue to miss the point that BMW has lost their dynamic edge on the market. Saying that they're most dynamic over Mercedes is a NON EVENT. They have always been that way. You don't get it, but you're harping about something that has been in place for the last 30 years. BMWs have gone soft and you don't seem to get it. Lexus, Cadillac, Audi and Jaguar haven beaten them in dynamics which WAS their calling card. Not Mercedes. You like to use hyperbole and that is fine, but clearly there is no crushing being done otherwise Mercedes would be a deep trouble and sales wouldn't be growing. You are in fact a very later comer to BMW. Just a year ago, they were junk and you trashed them just like you do Mercedes here. FACT. You didn't know squat about them until you bought one and now Mercedes is junk. I passed my driving test in a GM car. WTF difference does that make about their cars today?

Now as far as Mercedes being more reliable because of a lack of tech or outdated tech, you listed somethings:

1. Where's M-B's 300+ Torque 6 cylinder that can get over 30 MPG (just coming out, years after BMW).

Correct, you're right here. The turbo i6 in the "35" and "40" cars has been out since 2007 and has been troublesome, still is. Then again, is this something BMW should be excused for since this engine is like 7 years old now? I don't think so. Sounds like pitiful quality to me. Hardly something to crow about. Mercedes is late on the turbo 6-cylinder game. Correct, but at what cost to quality for BMW?

2. Where's M-B's HUD?

Prove that this silly *** gimmick is the reason why BMW suffers in dependability ratings. Otherwise you aren't saying a damn thing.

3. Where's M-B's iDrive competing infotainment system?

OMG man, what do you think Command is? Exact same concept. You may not like it, but it is the exact same concept.

4. Where's M-B's E-parking brake?

Prove that this is costing BMW point in reliability. The fact that you have to bring up such matterless junk shows you don't know what you're talking about. So you're saying that BMWs have trouble with this feature and that is costing them in reliability rankings?


5. even things as little as LED license plate lights

Lame, matterless bull**** man and you know it. Prove that this is a problem for BMW vs Mercedes and or who gives a damn about this either way.

6. LED DRL's they were late to the game

Again, is this costing BMW points in reliability? Prove it. Again, another couldn't be more matterless "feature".

7. How about M-B's ZF8 competitor after all these years?

You mean to tell me that BMW buying a transmission from ZF makes them a leader? Same transmission as in a dozen other German and British cars. There goes the exclusivity argument. BMW is having trouble with this transmission to the point of costing them in the reliability game? Careful how you answer this because you just stated that 7G was a POS also. It can't be both.

"BMW cars are packed with far more tech than M-B's and they regularly bring them to the market first, and the W222 isn't even on the floors yet so I'm not counting that, and as far as I'm concerned it took them long enough, and it still has no HUD, standard Keyless Go, and is stuck with the old 7G."


NO they aren't. You just listed a parking brake, HUD and Keyless go, the latter of which is an option on every Mercedes. So what you've basically got as a tech advantage is a outsourced transmission and a HUD feature that I have since turned off after the novelty wears off.

Packed my ****, BMWs aren't.



"Oh, I forgot, M-B did bring something new to the table in the States, an awkwardly proportioned, pinched-roof FWD 4 banger that starts at sub-$30K.... great job upholding the cachet your forefathers bestowed upon the company you now have the privilege to control, Daimler execs. :smash"


Really, you do realize that no CLA is selling for under 30K right? You also realize that BMW is now scrambling to introduce a FWD 1-Series sedan and the next X1 will be FWD?


Again, you are touting one review, but again you say that the magazines are clueless. Which is it? It can't be both. Do you honesty think a 7-Series rides better than a S-class based on your own experience with the W221 and the current 7-Series. Do you really think a car like the W222 went backwards in ride? One review gives you this conclusion, again against EVERY OTHER REVIEW that says the exact opposite? Think for a sec.


You don't know ****e about BMW, only what you can't google. You thought you knew everything about Mercedes too and now you admit that you were fooled. Now I'm supposed to believe you're an authority on BMW? A car you thought was junk just a year ago? LOL OK.


M

 

You're not getting it. BMW has INCREASED their dynamic edge over M-B because they have *MAINTAINED* their sportiness edge YET have ALSO *TAKEN OVER* the luxury crown. They are making stiffer cars with plusher interiors and better safety scores. They basically took over everything M-B used to tout over them and excelled at it. The F10 is the Mid-Size Sedan M-B always wanted to make.

Uh, BMW have for the first time EVER soared past M-B in sales relatively recently. The F10 is the FIRST 5 Series to not only outsell the E Class worldwide, but done it so rapidly and with such authority that it is literally crushing the E Class in global sales EVEN WITH the E having artificial sales boosts from a "Coupe" version (based on a C Class) which the 5 Series doesn't have, not to mention extensive worldwide E Class taxi use. Daimler stock has been lagging its competitors for years, Zetche's job has been said to be on the line if the current crop of upcoming models don't perform in line. Analysts have stated that by breaking down the market cap of each company and dissecting what the core brands are worth, BMW might be worth over DOUBLE what Mercedes is worth, which shows how much more growth M-B's competitors have attained over M-B themselves (and M-B have the largest fleet of cars amongst their competitors by far). M-B is now flooding the market with cheaper cars to take back market share, which will work, but at the cost of devaluing the M-B cachet and brand-halo.

Oh, yeah, M-B should really be proud of "innovating" a segment of FWD cars of which their competitors have no choice but to scramble to keep up with.

And once again, every point I make against M-B is wrote off by you apologizing for the brand. This is what has kept M-B so far back in recent times, a gathering of buyers who don't demand enough from them, they just apologize for everything M-B doesn't do and say "it's pointless, stupid, dumb, we don't need it". Then when M-B DO bring it to the market and outlandishly overcompensate for their tardiness by going too far with it, you'll act as if it's a necessity and M-B is the greatest because of it.

All these little and big things that BMW has done first, before M-B add up to the total sum of what makes the car. M-B's little screen, Atari-esque COMAND tech, lack of HUD (a MUST to me), extremely outdated E-brake setup, lethargic 7G, lagging 6 cylinder powertrains, etc. etc. just add up if you ask me.

As for the ZF8, it doesn't matter if BMW makes it "in house". Fact is the way it works on their cars is nothing short of perfect, far ahead of M-B's outdated 7G, and it's been that way for years now.

Your knowledge of BMW's N55 I6 shows how little you in fact know about BMW. The N54 which launched in 2007 had problems and is a DIFFERENT motor from the N55 which was launched in 2010 on 2011 model cars. The N55's have been universally perfectly reliable and have none of the quirks or problems of the N54 engines.

We can also gather up data regarding early M-B "550" motors having issues that would occur when higher mileage was reached, costing owners tens of thousands of potential dollars. Ask the W221 or W211 forums, they've tried to bring up class action lawsuits against M-B for not acknowledging a design flaw in the earlier runs of those motors.

 

That is just a matter of opinion. The reason why your argument doesn't hold water is because just last year you said that exact same things about Mercedes vs BMW. Now things have changed. BMW hasn't taken the luxury crown from Mercedes based on ONE superior product. That is what you DON'T GET. Saying that they took the luxury crown from Mercedes because you have discovered the 5-Series is better than the E-Class is just silly nonsense. Period.

BMW and Mercedes' crash test scores would have to be gone over model for model, to determine that. Unless you have done that then you're again talking out the side of your neck.

AGAIN, BMW PASSED MERCEDES IN SALES YEARS AGO, THIS ISN'T NEW NOR IS IT BASED ON THE 5-SERIES VS THE E-CLASS. WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU GET?

IN the U.S. Mercedes and BMW are neck and neck in sales and the E outsells the 5-Series here. Worldwide yes it is the other way around so I fail to see the smoking gun here. It is a regional thing and I bet if you look at the sales numbers you will see the BMW advantage is in China, that would be my guess because that is the only market on earth where MB is truly behind BMW and not even close.

It isn't just that the 5 is a better car like you're trying to claim.

"Oh, yeah, M-B should really be proud of "innovating" a segment of FWD cars of which their competitors have no choice but to scramble to keep up with. "

Yep and just watch BMW follow.

"And once again, every point I make against M-B is wrote off by you apologizing for the brand. This is what has kept M-B so far back in recent times, a gathering of buyers who don't demand enough from them, they just apologize for everything M-B doesn't do and say "it's pointless, stupid, dumb, we don't need it". Then when M-B DO bring it to the market and outlandishly overcompensate for their tardiness by going too far with it, you'll act as if it's a necessity and M-B is the greatest because of it."

WTF am I apologizing for or about? YOU stated that MB is more reliable because of dated and/or missing technology on MBs, and yet all you came up with an 1 engine type, a transmission and few truly matterless features. Not my fault you can't come up with **** to substantiate your bogus claims. The features you listed aren't anywhere near being "bleeding edge" as you called it. You don't even know what you're talking about. LEDs, HUD and Keyless GO, laughable. These are not bleeding edge items, items that are found on cars from non luxury brands now. Clearly if Mercedes thought it something warranted they would have done it. HUD for instance. You act like they can't do it if they wanted to.

Then you said that Mercedes is always late with things. Really? Mercedes has had more firsts than any other luxury brand on the market and many more than BMW and you know it. BMW isn't some type of innovator, that has always been Mercedes. Like seriously the ****e you say is really off base.

"All these little and big things that BMW has done first, before M-B add up to the total sum of what makes the car. M-B's little screen, Atari-esque COMAND with a mini-screen, lack of HUD (a MUST to me), extremely outdated E-brake setup, lethargic 7G, lagging 6 cylinder powertrains, etc. etc. just add up if you ask me."


And they're just that little nonsense things that don't make or break any luxury brand on the market. You first said that BMW had things that MB didn't now since you've been proven wrong on that overboard claim you come back to knock the things Mercedes, which is perfectly within your right, but to say that they don't have anything comparable is bull**** and you know it.

"Your knowledge of BMW's N55 I6 shows how little you in fact know about BMW. The N54 which launched in 2007 had problems and is a DIFFERENT motor from the N55 which was launched in 2010 on 2011 model cars. The N55's have been universally perfectly reliable and have none of the quirks or problems of the N54 engines."

WOW. See how clueless you are. This is the same type of engine minus a turbocharger a change from one type of turbo charger to another. Look it up. The carbon build up is still a problem (albeit less so) with the new engine. TRY AGAIN.

If the new engine is trouble free (according to you ) then what are you talking about it in attempt to prove that BMWs are LESS RELIABLE than Mercedes because of this engine?


"As for the ZF8, it doesn't matter if BMW makes it "in house". Fact is the way it works on their cars is nothing short of perfect, far ahead of M-B's outdated 7G, and it's been that way for years now. "

Correct it is far superior, but you listed it as a bleeding edge item that hurts BMW's reliability right? If it is doing this then prove it with data then. Which transmission is better wasn't being debated.

You stated that BMWs had bleeding edge tech and that is why Mercedes was more reliable.

Yet 7G has been a troublespot with Mercedes too so uh...which is it? You can't have it both ways.

The only thing you have come up with is Mercedes not having a turbo 6-cylinder. Hardly packed with "bleeding edge" tech. LEDs a parking brake and a license plates lights is pure bull**** and you know it. Nothing could be more matterless.

M

 

-The F10 massively surpassed the E in sales, which is a huge testament to how much better it is (in literally every way) than the E Class.

-Yes, in the U.S the E Sedan AND Coupe barely outsell the 5 Sedan, not much to write home about as the 5 Sedan might outsell the E Sedan anyway. The only reason why the E is competitive to the 5 in U.S sales is because M-B blows E Classes out the door for 20+% discounts relatively regularly, leasing them for as cheap (or cheaper) as people pay for 328i's. BMW discount too, but not NEARLY as much as the W212 gets discounted, not even close.

-Lol, again, you're apologizing. I name a bunch of stuff that is bleeding edge over Mercedes, yet you classically say "it's all matterless". I'll bet if M-B re-released a horse and buggy setup you'd say electronics and engines are "matterless" as well. BMW's drivetrain has been vastly advanced, it's in car tech, it's lighting systems, it's electronic gizmos that are in favor of M-B's analogue, it's much wider and higher resolution screen, HUD, FAR MORE COMPREHENSIVE Sport/Comfort/Eco modes than M-B's marketing-gimmick (i.e non existent in an engineering sense) modes, etc. etc. This is all significant stuff, especially when added together. Matched with the fact that the 5 Series drives significantly better than the E in both Sport and Luxury, and is 30% stiffer, uses 25% less cheap Chinese parts, gets better safety scores, has far more refined materials, feels more solid, etc. etc. you have Mercedes simply being outclassed, no apologies needed.

-Again, M-B is drawing first blood in the worst ways possible. A fugly FWD car, what a great revolution by M-B! BMW have been making others strive to be better performers for years.... yet M-B focuses on cheap FWD cars to try and "shake things up". IMO it's a testament to how low M-B has fallen, and what they need to resort to. The fact that others may have no choice to follow is nothing to brag about, M-B is trying its best to make cars that are premium by badge only (the CLA is far from a truly premium vehicle just like the A/B is).

-I'd say BMW's N54 was VERY "bleeding edge" and it DID result in reliability woes due to that, which BMW CORRECTED with the N55. The N55 fixed everything that made the N54 unreliable, and sorry but carbon-buildup reports from the N55 are nary to nil, and aren't any more than any other D/I car (look up any engine in D/I form and you'll see claims of carbon buildup or concern, yet universally speaking the problems have been squashed by the N55).

 

Oh wait, this is good one. You mean they're flooding the market with the same cars they've had for years? The A/B-Class cars have been around since the 90's only the CLA and GLA are truly new. Devaluing the brand yet the order books for the brand are FULL at both ends of the market? Sounds like to me they know what they're doing and you don't know what you're talking about. If the brand was going down like you're trying to imply here, there wouldn't be waiting lists at dealerships all over this country for the S-Class. Where is the devaluing of the brand hurting them at exactly? It surely isn't in the ability for them to be able open up the wallets of the rich.


M

 

Pleeaase, people will pay for anything new with the M-B badge. The Star is a powerful brand. Of course a new M-B will have initially booked sales, nothing new here. They're releasing new models more regularly than ever now to desperately keep those sales figures flowing, but at some point saturation will catch up, and dilution will start to chip away at that powerful M-B Star.

M-B have factually been dying in market share for years, they're lower than AUDI now for f's sake! Their market cap has been crushed, their stock is SIGNIFICANTLY underperforming BMW AG and VAG. Damiler are in red-alert mode in terms of keeping shareholders happy. The newly launched models WILL give them a short term boost, but where they go from there will be the true story. Could be good indeed, but margins (which M-B is already worst in maintaining out of their competitors) won't be helped at all by these new FWD offerings.

M-B have the largest lineup out of BMW, Lexus, Audi and themselves. They are releasing new models pretty regularly these days, on the lower end of the pricing spectrum (for M-B), the C Coupe, GLK, CLA, and more iterations are coming. BMW still has less cars on the floor, and sells more. Think about that.