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I had occasion to take off a front wheel the other day and see now why 18 inch wheels cannot be used with the AMG sport package calipers. The calipers stick out about 40mm beyond the wheel hub, so any wheel used with these calipers needs about 45 mm of clearance under it's spokes. Looking at my 20s I can see how the spokes are curved outward to provide this clearance.
I also realized the significance of the lug bolts requiring 110 ft lbs. A person would need a pretty stout wrench to produce enough torque to remove a wheel from our cars. Thus, the decision by Mercedes not to provide a jack, spare tire and tools comes a little more into focus. Moreover the 20" wheel and tire are pretty darn heavy, so again, many people might have real difficulty changing a flat even if they had the jack, spare and tools on hand. Obviously, most of us would just call AAA or some service to come out and do it, but then you'd be relying their guy and his equipment, so why carry it around in your car?
I still like the idea of the creamy smooth ride on 18s and non-run flats, so looks like the closest thing will be 19s and run-flats.
I had occasion to take off a front wheel the other day and see now why 18 inch wheels cannot be used with the AMG sport package calipers. The calipers stick out about 40mm beyond the wheel hub, so any wheel used with these calipers needs about 45 mm of clearance under it's spokes. Looking at my 20s I can see how the spokes are curved outward to provide this clearance.
I also realized the significance of the lug bolts requiring 110 ft lbs. A person would need a pretty stout wrench to produce enough torque to remove a wheel from our cars. Thus, the decision by Mercedes not to provide a jack, spare tire and tools comes a little more into focus. Moreover the 20" wheel and tire are pretty darn heavy, so again, many people might have real difficulty changing a flat even if they had the jack, spare and tools on hand. Obviously, most of us would just call AAA or some service to come out and do it, but then you'd be relying their guy and his equipment, so why carry it around in your car?
I still like the idea of the creamy smooth ride on 18s and non-run flats, so looks like the closest thing will be 19s and run-flats.
The calipers are identical on AMG sport package and non-AMG cars. Only on dedicated AMG branded vehicles (S63, S65 etc) are the calipers different. The AMG sport package is purely cosmetic.
I can tell you that an 18" Mercedes wheel doesn't fit on my car. It hits the caliper. This is an 18" wheel off an S class. The caliper looks bigger to me than the one on my friends 2015 s class. I have 19" staggered split fives on my car and looking at the clearance to caliper there is no way is there a 1/2" of space that would allow the downsize to an 18" wheel, there is less than a 1/4" between wheel barrel and caliper. BTW I have a 2017 4matic sport S550.
i run 18s michelin alpins in the winter on a dedicated 18" wheel. the normal (non-winter) set-up is 19" michelins on 19" amgs. the dealer swaps out the wheel/tyre combo in november and back again in march. and did so on my '14 s550, '18 s450, and '20 s560 with the amg appearance package. ergo, my experience is an 18 will fit on a s with the amg package.
2018 S560 4matic Sedan. Official member of the 18" RIM CREW.
I do think that there might be a slight (decorative) difference in the calipers; I think the AMG package calipers say "Mercedes-Benz" on them, whereas the standard ones are plain. That embellishment could make the caliper larger and that could make some 18" rims unworkable.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
The whole AMG Line Exterior or what used to be called the AMG Sports Pkg., was a brilliant invention by MB, to pad their corporate bottom line. Through the 2020 models, the AMG Line Exterior option that included swoopy body panels and different wheels, cost $5,900.00. For WHAT? Does anyone here think that it cost more to produce the AMG body panels than the standard ones? Or that the AMG wheels cost more to produce than the non-AMG wheels? I do not. It is all SMOKE and MIRRORS!
MB has played this hand SO, exceedingly well, convincing drivers of these huge saloons that they are “sporty” if their car has the AMG Line or “Sports” package and that if they don’t get the AMG option, that they must be ready for a retirement home. For stock, the dealers almost exclusively order S Class and other vehicles with these AMG packages, while totally ignoring magnificent options like Magic Body Control, because it is so easy to sell “sporty,” and the clueless sales people might actually have to learn something to sell MBC. Who doesn’t want to be “sporty?” I don’t, not in my big sedan I don’t.
I can’t even imagine how much MB has made selling replacement AMG wheels alone. Stories here on how the overly sized AMG wheels seem to literally search out potholes, where they immediately fail, are damn near legendary. Do we think MB cares? They are laughing all the way to the bank! In addition, I truly believe that MB has gone out of their way to make the standard, 18” wheels look homely, boring and totally pedestrian, compared to the costly AMG wheels, so that more folks will cave and buy the car optioned with the AMG Line. It’s all marketing and when MB invented the “Sports” package, it was like they hit the mother lode.
I refuse to play and always order my S Class cars without AMG anything. I like my big, comfy sedans to look more stately and elegant. They are not sports cars or even “sport sedans,” and I like mine fine that way.
2018 S560 4matic Sedan. Official member of the 18" RIM CREW.
Thank you sir! They were available as an "accessory." The car actually came with 20s, but as part of the CPO process the dealer took off the 20s and put these brand new 18s on. The story from the CPO manager, and consistent with the Carfax, was that the prior owner had 6+ flats and a few bent rims. His view was that he couldn't leave the repaired 20s on the car and sell it as CPO, so he replaced with 18s in the interest of a better experience for all involved. It saved him money in certifying the car, and it was exactly what I wanted; so win-win. MB of White Plains; have to give them a thumbs up.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by PatentLawyer
Thank you sir! They were available as an "accessory." The car actually came with 20s, but as part of the CPO process the dealer took off the 20s and put these brand new 18s on. The story from the CPO manager, and consistent with the Carfax, was that the prior owner had 6+ flats and a few bent rims. His view was that he couldn't leave the repaired 20s on the car and sell it as CPO, so he replaced with 18s in the interest of a better experience for all involved. It saved him money in certifying the car, and it was exactly what I wanted; so win-win. MB of White Plains; have to give them a thumbs up.
Thats a great story. I was wondering how I could have missed those wheels. If they can offer those beautiful wheels as an accessory item, wouldn’t you think they would make them optional when ordering a new car? I think it goes to support my claim that they want the base car to not compare favorably to an AMG Line car in the looks department.
The whole AMG Line Exterior or what used to be called the AMG Sports Pkg., was a brilliant invention by MB, to pad their corporate bottom line. Through the 2020 models, the AMG Line Exterior option that included swoopy body panels and different wheels, cost $5,900.00. For WHAT? Does anyone here think that it cost more to produce the AMG body panels than the standard ones? Or that the AMG wheels cost more to produce than the non-AMG wheels? I do not. It is all SMOKE and MIRRORS!
MB has played this hand SO, exceedingly well, convincing drivers of these huge saloons that they are “sporty” if their car has the AMG Line or “Sports” package and that if they don’t get the AMG option, that they must be ready for a retirement home. For stock, the dealers almost exclusively order S Class and other vehicles with these AMG packages, while totally ignoring magnificent options like Magic Body Control, because it is so easy to sell “sporty,” and the clueless sales people might actually have to learn something to sell MBC. Who doesn’t want to be “sporty?” I don’t, not in my big sedan I don’t.
I can’t even imagine how much MB has made selling replacement AMG wheels alone. Stories here on how the overly sized AMG wheels seem to literally search out potholes, where they immediately fail, are damn near legendary. Do we think MB cares? They are laughing all the way to the bank! In addition, I truly believe that MB has gone out of their way to make the standard, 18” wheels look homely, boring and totally pedestrian, compared to the costly AMG wheels, so that more folks will cave and buy the car optioned with the AMG Line. It’s all marketing and when MB invented the “Sports” package, it was like they hit the mother lode.
I refuse to play and always order my S Class cars without AMG anything. I like my big, comfy sedans to look more stately and elegant. They are not sports cars or even “sport sedans,” and I like mine fine that way.
That was one of the most amusing rants I've seen in a while. Thanks for that.
The AMG package comes with completely different front & rear bumpers, air diffuser, and side skirts, to go along with the MUCH nicer looking, bigger, and staggered wheels with more expensive and wider (in the rear) rubber. Is it worth $5900 retail when new? That is completely subjective to the buyer of a new car. Considering that MB made so many of them in that configuration, I would have to assume that people liked it and wanted it. And considering that the vast majority of these cars are leased when new with ridiculously high lease payments anyway, what's an extra $50-100/mo tacked on to that payment to make the car look soooo much better than a bland and boring non-AMG car on 18" wheels. When buying them as the 2nd owner, that original $5900 turns into almost zero as options add very little cost to a used car.
Apparently you like your cars to look boring and have a mushy ride. To each their own.
My car rides incredibly well on the AMG 19s and non run flat Michelins.
I think the cost for the AMG Styling package is absurd, but IMO it makes the car much more attractive. I don't care for the look of the car without the AMG package, and for me it was an absolute must have. Just transforms the car IMO.
But, $6,000 for purely a cosmetic package? Yeah its a ton of money.
My car rides incredibly well on the AMG 19s and non run flat Michelins.
I think the cost for the AMG Styling package is absurd, but IMO it makes the car much more attractive. I don't care for the look of the car without the AMG package, and for me it was an absolute must have. Just transforms the car IMO.
But, $6,000 for purely a cosmetic package? Yeah its a ton of money.
I totally agree. And I believe you can get the rims for $1250 so the extra almost 5K for a few body tweaks? Um no.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by DaveW68
.................Apparently you like your cars to look boring and have a mushy ride. To each their own.
Well, my car has Magic Body Control and I would hardly call the ride mushy. It is quite capable and exceedingly comfortable. As for the “boring” looks, I love the fact that I don’t often see another car like mine every time I turn the corner and I rather like the way she looks, stately, reserved, elegant. When I feel the need for something sporty, I take the SL out for a spin.
Well, my car has Magic Body Control and I would hardly call the ride mushy. It is quite capable and exceedingly comfortable. As for the “boring” looks, I love the fact that I don’t often see another car like mine every time I turn the corner and I rather like the way she looks, stately, reserved, elegant. When I feel the need for something sporty, I take the SL out for a spin.
That is one nice looking SL! I have liked your comments on the E450 wagon as well, a friend of men was cross shopping them against Volvo products...ended up with a loaded V90 wagon. I am NOT fond of the Volvo 4 cylinder that is used now in EVERY car they sell, it is their only engine! IMHO those last years of the MB E450 wagon are to be noticed. We all dont want to drive SUVs!!!!!
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Sumfuncomet
That is one nice looking SL! I have liked your comments on the E450 wagon as well, a friend of men was cross shopping them against Volvo products...ended up with a loaded V90 wagon. I am NOT fond of the Volvo 4 cylinder that is used now in EVERY car they sell, it is their only engine! IMHO those last years of the MB E450 wagon are to be noticed. We all dont want to drive SUVs!!!!!
You know, over my many years, I have been blindsided a few times, but missing out on ordering a new E450 Wagon is the one that really hurts. I had planned on ordering a 2021 and then two things happened: First, MB REALLY messes up the look of the Luxury trim model during the mid cycle “face lift.” It was like they designed the front end for the AMG Line look and at the last minute, made a ridiculous looking attempt at a Luxury type grille that looks like in “snaps” into the AMG grille opening. Then, MBUSA decides to not import E450 standard models for 2021, only the ugly stepsister All Terrain. The 2019/2020 E450 Wagons needed a “face lift” like Grace Kelly needed one in her heyday. Honestly, you sometimes wonder what the folks in Stuttgart are smoking these days, not to mention the clowns at MBUSA. I was very fortunate to find a slightly used 2019 E450 Wagon that was very close to the way I would have ordered one.
Top photo: The face lifted Luxury model, not available in the US.
Second photo: The All Terrain, the only non-E63 Wagon available in the US for 2021.
Third photo: My 2019 E450 Wagon that I was so very lucky to find used.
Bottom photo: The aforementioned Miss Kelly, circa 1950’s.
I am NOT fond of the Volvo 4 cylinder that is used now in EVERY car they sell...
You can thank CAFE standards for that. But those 2.0L motors comes in a few forced induction variants and they squeeze 415 hp and 494 lb/ft out of it in the 60 model Polestar with a zero to 60 in the low 4's while averaging gas mileage in the mid 20's mpg. Why offer a V6 or V8 when you can achieve those numbers out of an efficient 4 banger while making it easier for their mechanics to work on with only a few variants of the same 4 cylinder available?
You can thank CAFE standards for that. But those 2.0L motors comes in a few forced induction variants and they squeeze 415 hp and 494 lb/ft out of it in the 60 model Polestar with a zero to 60 in the low 4's while averaging gas mileage in the mid 20's mpg. Why offer a V6 or V8 when you can achieve those numbers out of an efficient 4 banger while making it easier for their mechanics to work on with only a few variants of the same 4 cylinder available?
The inherent problem with 4 bangers is they sound and feel like 4 bangers. There is nothing about them that is smooth nor refined no matter what tech you throw at it. It's unbecoming in a luxury vehicle, no matter how much power they make...
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by emilner
The inherent problem with 4 bangers is they sound and feel like 4 bangers. There is nothing about them that is smooth nor refined no matter what tech you throw at it. It's unbecoming in a luxury vehicle, no matter how much power they make...
I honestly don’t see the rationality of putting 18 inch wheels on α S class. C and E classes comes standard with 18” and even 19 wheels with α reason even though allot of owners upgrade them to 20” wheels. It’s not the 20” wheels that is bending the wheels imho, it’s the run flat tires because they are made so stiff that even when you hit the smallest pot hole, it punctures the run flats causing bigger force on the wheels to bend.
03-03-2021, 09:35 PM
