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To Inspect or Not Inspect, that is the question :-)
Hello, all. I'm looking at a 2015 S550. I've read the posts about the liners. The serial # on the engine is after the cut in date with the cast iron liners, so theoretically I should be okay in that area . Based on the clean Car Fax, the car has exclusively been serviced at the same Mercedes Benz dealership over the years and has had brake pads / rotors replaced as well as engine mounts and control arms. Based on car fax the car was recently serviced about 2,000 miles ago at Mercedes. I'm a fan of pre-inspection, but I am wondering since it was just at Mercedes several months ago, does it make sense to have it taken to a local Mercedes and pay ($500?) to have it inspected? I'll end up buying a aftermarket warranty on the vehicle. Thoughts?
First step is to as the dealer for the VMI. It's a full detail history of what's been done to the car, sometimes much more information than on a carfax. Dealer is NOT obligated to show it to you, and they will definitely not give it to you. If you have a relationship with someone at the delarship they will tell you what's on the VMI. Agan, it's an ask, they have NO obligation to share that with you at any point.
And definitely get a PPI performed. Be sure it's from a reputble company, not Lemon Squad. They aren't bad, but they don't provide the type of detailed PPI that you would need for a car like this. You're going to spend at least $200 for the PPI, but shouldn;t have to spend more than $400. I recommend Car Pro Inspections, but they don't do it in every market.
To answer your question, a PPI is a must! Also, see if they will let you keep the car for a day to get a PPI done at your local indy shop, and do youself a favor and hand wash the car. You'll be able to find things you would never see otherwise. All that might not be possible, especially if buying out of state, but don's skip the PPI; some aftermarket warranty companies require you pay for one before they'll warranty your car.
Carlos, thanks for advice. Do you think the PPI is best performed by Mercedes or Car Pro (I assume Mercedes, but I am not familiar with Car Pro)? Unfortunately, the car is out of state (AZ) and I'll be relying on others for eyes and ears if you will. I don't know anyone at Mercedes so accessing the VMI data will be a challenge unless I potentially get the car inspected at Mercedes.
First step is to as the dealer for the VMI. It's a full detail history of what's been done to the car, sometimes much more information than on a carfax. Dealer is NOT obligated to show it to you, and they will definitely not give it to you. If you have a relationship with someone at the delarship they will tell you what's on the VMI. Agan, it's an ask, they have NO obligation to share that with you at any point.
And definitely get a PPI performed. Be sure it's from a reputble company, not Lemon Squad. They aren't bad, but they don't provide the type of detailed PPI that you would need for a car like this. You're going to spend at least $200 for the PPI, but shouldn;t have to spend more than $400. I recommend Car Pro Inspections, but they don't do it in every market.
To answer your question, a PPI is a must! Also, see if they will let you keep the car for a day to get a PPI done at your local indy shop, and do youself a favor and hand wash the car. You'll be able to find things you would never see otherwise. All that might not be possible, especially if buying out of state, but don's skip the PPI; some aftermarket warranty companies require you pay for one before they'll warranty your car.
Hi Carlos, am surprised that you wouldn't recommend Lemon Squad. I've seen good reports by them. Also, my first W222 buyer sent Lemon Squad to inspect the car, and I've seen the inspector inspecting the car in my garage, and I was impressed to see the least. He spent a lot of time, and when I saw the report, I was actually shocked as he noted very minor things that I have never ever noticed or realized. My last 2 cars in 2024 were both new, but for my next pre-owned I was planning on hiring them but I'd be curious to know what else Car Pro Inspections would do? Am asking because Lemon Squad are everywhere and have good reputation already.
Hi Carlos, am surprised that you wouldn't recommend Lemon Squad. I've seen good reports by them. Also, my first W222 buyer sent Lemon Squad to inspect the car, and I've seen the inspector inspecting the car in my garage, and I was impressed to see the least. He spent a lot of time, and when I saw the report, I was actually shocked as he noted very minor things that I have never ever noticed or realized. My last 2 cars in 2024 were both new, but for my next pre-owned I was planning on hiring them but I'd be curious to know what else Car Pro Inspections would do? Am asking because Lemon Squad are everywhere and have good reputation already.
Lemon Squad is fine, but they don't go into as much detail as the other companies like Car Pro Inspections. I only say beware because they didn't tell me that at first, but when I got on the phone and asked about everything, they said they don't do everything like some of the others. If I were buying a Toyota Camry or some other fairly simple car out of market, I'd have no reservations about Lemon Squad. Best thing OP can do is get on the phone and get details about services offered.
The report I got from Car Pro was very detailed, and the inspector took the car for a long test drive. I got more than 60 extrior pictures, including the underside of the car; tires, wheels, everything. I emailed him with a bunch of questions and he got right back to me every time. Also received an additional 50+ interior pictures. He even told me about a sticky button on the center console and how the leather on the center armrest had scratches that can't be picked up on camera. I never noticed the scratches until 6 months after I got the car; that's the kind of detail I appreciate.
It really boils down to the level of detail the OP wants with his PPI. Since it's in PHX I'm sure he can hire a local company to do a PPI. Just get a sample PPI before you sign on the dotted line.
Carlos, thanks for advice. Do you think the PPI is best performed by Mercedes or Car Pro (I assume Mercedes, but I am not familiar with Car Pro)? Unfortunately, the car is out of state (AZ) and I'll be relying on others for eyes and ears if you will. I don't know anyone at Mercedes so accessing the VMI data will be a challenge unless I potentially get the car inspected at Mercedes.
I've attached a PPI for a car that I did not buy last year. In addition to what's shown, there was a link to 60+ photos interior and exterior. It cost me $350. I passed on the car because the private party owner declined to let the inspector drive the car himself. The owner drove the car on the test drive. But I specifically asked the owner to let the inspector drive the car, he agreed ahead of time, but said he wasn't comfortable doing it at the time of the inspection. Other problem was the car had a cracked windshield. FYI.
I found a local shop that deals in European cars with rave reviews to complete a PPI. PPI is scheduled for Wednesday. We will see.
Good luck, and hope it all goes well.
Did they provide you with a sample of the PPI they perform, or at least go over all the items they check and inspect?
I found a local shop that deals in European cars with rave reviews to complete a PPI. PPI is scheduled for Wednesday. We will see.
I'm sure you probably know about the cam sensor/solenoid plugs that can leak (wick) oil up the wiring harnesses if they are faulty. The older engines have the old versions of magnets/solenoids, so they're prone to leaking. I've had it happen with my m276 engine in a W212, which uses the exact same magnets and solenoids. In my 2016, m278, it didn't have the issue and supposedly the newer parts aren't prone to this issue. Luckily with my 2016 w222, it didn't have the issues, but I ordered pigtails for all of the plugs. There are OEM pigtails from Mercedes for I believe the cam magnets, and not the solenoids, but there are aftermarket (eBay, etc) pigtails for the solenoids. It's basically a wire extension, so it's nothing special or complicated. It acts like a sacrificial wire between the harness and the magnets/solenoids, so that IF your magnet/solenoids fail and leak oil, it'll only get into the pigtail extension and not up your wire harness. If/when that happens, you replace the magnets/solenoids and new pigtails.
Pretty much, you want to check for leaks in the plugs because if oil gets up into the wire harness, it can make its way ALL the way to the ECU module, which can cause a ton of electrical issues. The replacement of wiring harness is very expensive, I believe it requires and engine-out to access everything.
This actually happened to my w212, I saw traces of oil in the plug that went into the ECU, luckily it wasn't enough to cause any issues. I had to clean it by spraying electrical cleaner into the plugs on both ends, let it all hang dry on paper towels overnight to "wick" any remaining oil out of the plug until there weren't any traces. Went to drive 3 years with no issues after that.
A little bit more data... I actually wanted to get the inspection done at Mercedes. While the cost of almost $500 at the dealership was somewhat acceptable, I did not have confidence that they would actually have a conversation with me to discuss the results. When I called the dealer selling the car, he mentioned that I might want to consider someone else other than the Lemon Squad. Not because of their work, but because their inspection in terms of under body, brakes and are limited since the seller doesn't have a lift. That led me down the independent repair shop path. I spoke to the indy shop and he spent 15 minutes or so on the phone walking me through everything they inspect. So while I did not get a sample report, I am comfortable that they will have the tools and experience to complete a thorough inspection. Tomorrow is the big day.
I'm sure you probably know about the cam sensor/solenoid plugs that can leak (wick) oil up the wiring harnesses if they are faulty. The older engines have the old versions of magnets/solenoids, so they're prone to leaking. I've had it happen with my m276 engine in a W212, which uses the exact same magnets and solenoids. In my 2016, m278, it didn't have the issue and supposedly the newer parts aren't prone to this issue. Luckily with my 2016 w222, it didn't have the issues, but I ordered pigtails for all of the plugs. There are OEM pigtails from Mercedes for I believe the cam magnets, and not the solenoids, but there are aftermarket (eBay, etc) pigtails for the solenoids. It's basically a wire extension, so it's nothing special or complicated. It acts like a sacrificial wire between the harness and the magnets/solenoids, so that IF your magnet/solenoids fail and leak oil, it'll only get into the pigtail extension and not up your wire harness. If/when that happens, you replace the magnets/solenoids and new pigtails.
Pretty much, you want to check for leaks in the plugs because if oil gets up into the wire harness, it can make its way ALL the way to the ECU module, which can cause a ton of electrical issues. The replacement of wiring harness is very expensive, I believe it requires and engine-out to access everything.
This actually happened to my w212, I saw traces of oil in the plug that went into the ECU, luckily it wasn't enough to cause any issues. I had to clean it by spraying electrical cleaner into the plugs on both ends, let it all hang dry on paper towels overnight to "wick" any remaining oil out of the plug until there weren't any traces. Went to drive 3 years with no issues after that.
Thanks for the video. I have read about this issue on the boards and have seen one of those videos. I mentioned this in passing to the shop doing the inspection. I am going to send them these videos to see if they will watch them and inspect for those items. I am definitely going to have those pigtails installed. Thanks for the note greatly appreciated!
A little bit more data... I actually wanted to get the inspection done at Mercedes. While the cost of almost $500 at the dealership was somewhat acceptable, I did not have confidence that they would actually have a conversation with me to discuss the results.
no, No, NO: MB Dealer just want to get the car off their lot and they don't care who "gets it".
PPIs should be done by a private mechanic skilled in the art of European vehicles, one who works on them all the time and knows what generally to look out for.
I appreciate all of the feedback on this thread. Below are some of the results of inspection. The inspector told me the car is in great condition. Exterior and interior are great. No accidents, no paint chips. All car functions seem to be operating correctly, even with the fault codes. He said the biggest area of concern is that the valve cover (not the cam sensors) are seeping oil and seem to have been doing so for some time. His shop would charge $4K to repair. I haven't spent much time on the phone with the seller discussing the results, yet. Assuming the shop fixed the valve covers would any of you have concerns about this car? 2015 S550 4matic. with ~50K miles. Based on carfax, 100% serviced at MB dealership. I'd appreciate thoughts from the group.
Hopefully somebody with experience reading the scan tool will chime in. From what I see...run! BUT...I only went by what I see on the reader. All I know is my car didn't have any of teh fault codes, stored or active, when I bought it. And my 17 also was fault code free when I bought it and when I sold it last year. But I'm not an experct on using the code readers and what they say.
So it sounds like you're buying from a private party, and he/she has always had the car serviced at the dealer. Since they are the owners of the car, the dealership will share the VMI with them, maybe you can talk them into sharing that with you over the phone or something.
Regardless of all that, you should definitely factor in the valve cover gasket job into your offer for the car. Low mileage is nice, but some things wear out with time, regardless of mileage.
Sound like you like the car, hope it works out and you enjoy every moment in your new car!!
Some third party code readers aren’t as accurate, also may throw faults for things that are one time glitches or when battery gets swapped, etc. I remember mine would throw a keyless-go fault code, forgot the exact issue, but I had no problems with keys or the keyless go features. Once I got BenzNinja’s system, all was good.
Anyways, if the only real issue is the leaking from cam covers, I wouldn’t be to concerned. They’re known to leak, it’s not a gasket but some sealant. My m276 had them leak, I cleaned and repaired the issue myself. I believe the earlier models had some coating issue from cam cover materials that didn’t bond well with the sealant.
On the m278, it’s a little more involved and some low clearance tools are needed to change them since you have intake pipes and stuff in the way. I can’t imagine them quoting can covers for $4k though, that’s way too much for that job. But if it is indeed valve cover gaskets, ie you have leak in spark plug wells, and around the valve cover, then yeah it can be pretty high up there considering the labor to do all that.
I like this car very much. It is the perfect color for me- ruby black (I don't see any 2016 or 2017 models in this color), with a fabulous interior. It has all of the features I would like and a slew of others that are nice gadgets but unneeded (chauffeur mode, etc). Unfortunately the dealer who is selling the car is unlikely to eat the cost of the repair. Given the good condition of the car, I suspect he paid good money for it, which is why I was willing to pay a fairly high price for a 2015, not factoring in the cost of a warranty package. The selling dealer indicated, like others, that given the age of the car, things will seep, which I completely understand. But seeps turn into leaks. If he were to absorb the cost I would move forward. This is probably going to be a pass unless something changes. Thanks for all of the feedback folks!
When it comes to the price of a car it really boils down to what it's worth to you. Regardless of options, color, mileage, etc., if you value the experience enough then buy it. If not, then you'll find another one that you'll like just as much. I bought my S63 after looking for close to a year, and looking seriously for the last 5 months. I found my car in June of last year at an out of state dealership, but the dealer wouldn't budge on the price and a few other things. Car went to dealer auction eventually, and I had a local dealer I had worked with before buy it through the dealer only auction for me, then I bought it from them. Final purchase happened in late September. I only wound up saving around $3K, but I got what I wanted and "felt" better about who I was buying from...AND I had the car in my possesion to inspect for a day before I had to finalize things.
Have a pic of the leak. We may be able to give you a better estimate of what it takes. Lots of easy repairs on this engine. They just take time.
The car is in AZ, I'm in TX, and your handle indicates you are in MD. I'm open to hear what you have to say. I did some more research on this board and saw some posts from 2021, this is not an uncommon issue and seems to be age related and nothing more. The leak / seeping doesn't scare me, but I don't want to be the one to foot the $4K repair bill. Drop me a PM if warranted.
The car is in AZ, I'm in TX, and your handle indicates you are in MD. I'm open to hear what you have to say. I did some more research on this board and saw some posts from 2021, this is not an uncommon issue and seems to be age related and nothing more. The leak / seeping doesn't scare me, but I don't want to be the one to foot the $4K repair bill. Drop me a PM if warranted.
Too bad they're asking a premium price for that car. It's a stunner to look at, and impeccably maintained, and recently received some major/expensive services. If the price was right, it might be worth eating the $4K bill for leaky valve covers. My guess is that the price will reduce over time and eventually sell for under $30K. Not a lot of demand for 4-Matic in the SW. Car Gurus says it's overpriced by around $5K. Just wait a little longer and you'll have that car at a decent price. That's what happened for me last year.
07-07-2024, 11:20 PM
