Originally Posted by crabman

Have they made Mercedes more accessible, or have they made a car with a Mercedes badge more accessible?

I'm going to be straight up here. I like this car, saying otherwise would be a lie. This is the part where everything after the but is what matters.... BUT... The only reason that I don't like some other car better is because no one is making it. If Porsche made an actual luxury car, no sport, pure luxury, I'm absolutely convinced it would be better in almost every way. We'd have better climate control, better wipers, better headlights, better shifting transmissions, a massive reduction in squeaks, suspension that didn't BANG over anything bigger than a modest bump, and on and on and on. Hell, even the kick to open the trunk works every single time on a Panamera. Every. Single. Time. Everything works. Every. Single. Time.

You don't have to go to a hypothetical though; right now a Toyota I rented recently shifted better than my S Class. Just like almost every car I rent. I adjusted the climate once in it and it didn't need to be touched again. Typical anymore but not in an S Class, you have to fool with it every drive. It's an example and I could go on in the same vein for quite a while but I don't want to bore.

A different hypothetical. If the new 7 didn't look like used toilet paper, I'd be over there.

Bottom line: Is it really a Mercedes experience that has been opened up to more people? Maybe. But only if the Mercedes experience is about being functionally outclassed in many respects by cars a fraction of its cost.

Originally Posted by crabman

Have they made Mercedes more accessible, or have they made a car with a Mercedes badge more accessible?

I'm going to be straight up here. I like this car, saying otherwise would be a lie. This is the part where everything after the but is what matters.... BUT... The only reason that I don't like some other car better is because no one is making it. If Porsche made an actual luxury car, no sport, pure luxury, I'm absolutely convinced it would be better in almost every way. We'd have better climate control, better wipers, better headlights, better shifting transmissions, a massive reduction in squeaks, suspension that didn't BANG over anything bigger than a modest bump, and on and on and on. Hell, even the kick to open the trunk works every single time on a Panamera. Every. Single. Time. Everything works. Every. Single. Time.

You don't have to go to a hypothetical though; right now a Toyota I rented recently shifted better than my S Class. Just like almost every car I rent. I adjusted the climate once in it and it didn't need to be touched again. Typical anymore but not in an S Class, you have to fool with it every drive. It's an example and I could go on in the same vein for quite a while but I don't want to bore.

A different hypothetical. If the new 7 didn't look like used toilet paper, I'd be over there.

Bottom line: Is it really a Mercedes experience that has been opened up to more people? Maybe. But only if the Mercedes experience is about being functionally outclassed in many respects by cars a fraction of its cost.

Originally Posted by MBNUT1

One of my Indies said that Porsche was the only car that hadn't cheapened their build quality. What do you think a Porsche version of the S Class would cost?

Originally Posted by crabman

Have they made Mercedes more accessible, or have they made a car with a Mercedes badge more accessible?

I'm going to be straight up here. I like this car, saying otherwise would be a lie. This is the part where everything after the but is what matters.... BUT... The only reason that I don't like some other car better is because no one is making it. If Porsche made an actual luxury car, no sport, pure luxury, I'm absolutely convinced it would be better in almost every way. We'd have better climate control, better wipers, better headlights, better shifting transmissions, a massive reduction in squeaks, suspension that didn't BANG over anything bigger than a modest bump, and on and on and on. Hell, even the kick to open the trunk works every single time on a Panamera. Every. Single. Time. Everything works. Every. Single. Time.

You don't have to go to a hypothetical though; right now a Toyota I rented recently shifted better than my S Class. Just like almost every car I rent. I adjusted the climate once in it and it didn't need to be touched again. Typical anymore but not in an S Class, you have to fool with it every drive. It's an example and I could go on in the same vein for quite a while but I don't want to bore.

A different hypothetical. If the new 7 didn't look like used toilet paper, I'd be over there.

Bottom line: Is it really a Mercedes experience that has been opened up to more people? Maybe. But only if the Mercedes experience is about being functionally outclassed in many respects by cars a fraction of its cost.

Originally Posted by Frenetic

Lexus made some poor decisions that essentially killed the LS. They stopped making V8s and they abandoned the core theme of what the LS was all about with the weird, edgy design, that i can only imagine was done to target “younger” buyers. If they would have just went back to the pure roots of what the original LS was all about, instead of trying to chase some imaginary younger buyer (which isn’t the audience of this car to begin with), they would be in a decent position right now with their flagship imo.

The Yukon Denali Ultimate is something that I like. I know it’s an entirely different class, but they’re surprisingly comfortable cruisers, that are a relative bargain compared to the S class.

Originally Posted by Quietride

Funnily enough the 2018 LS was a 9/10 for Car & Driver. For most of us I'm sure it was more like a 4/10.

Reviewers do a great job of pushing car companies in stupid directions.

Originally Posted by MBNUT1

Source for this statement?

Originally Posted by Streamliner

The way I look at it, MB has royally screwed me now, TWICE! If they want me to give them another shot this time around, I want some guaranteed, sufficiently BIG incentive money, before I even attempt to work with a dealer. And, honestly, even as I write this, I don’t know what model I might go with. The idiotic door handles alone are enough to turn me off of every model that has them. The way the transmission in my S580 is behaving these days is really horrible to me. Do I chance getting another crummy one they won’t fix? I think I need to leave MB for a bit. That said, money talks, B.S. walks, so let’s see if they come up with anything acceptable.

Originally Posted by SW20S

To be fair, I think they've stood behind their product for you pretty well, bought them both back etc. If you're not happy with the car though I wouldn't get another one and hope it would be different.

Originally Posted by Streamliner

Yes and no. They COULD have fixed the transmission in my 2020, but they elected not to. That decision on their part, ended up costing me a lot of money and put me into a car I hate. If they had properly fixed my 2020, I'd be driving it today and probably would not have parted with it for many years.

Originally Posted by S_W222

Yes that was my thread when I had my previous pre-facelift W222 (S550). My vehicle was out of warranty by the way at that time, but it was still under the mandatory 3-months dealer pre-owned warranty


That's right too. It took a few weeks to a couple of months for me to navigate through all of this, I got MBUSA involved as I was not happy about the situation. They AKNOWLEGED that they as accorporate (and the german engineers) know about the issue but the solution will have to go through re-certification and EPA sort of regulatory type of process. German transmission design engineers where blaming software engineers, and the opposite was true. It was a mess. Being an out of warranty vehicle, The shop technician did a manual forced adaptation and adjustment of the shift points so that the 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 2nd shifts are smooth again. Not sure if it has changed the vehicle emissions numbers, but all I cared about is to fix that nasty downshifting (as well as upshifting)



Not really. at least based on what I have seen in my previous W222 (S550), if what streamliner has been experiencing is the same, it is truly not just a normal downshift. I am serious when I say that from time to time, I thought I got rear-ended!. I swear that at least once a week, an event would occur once that the downshift is so bad that I would immediately stop and reakout looking at the rear mirror trying to find if someone rear-ended me. It is really that bad. Beside that happening once a week, the downshift is still rough, not sure I would call it fine, but for my wife it was probably just fine... But as someone who knows cars, I know that this is NOT how and S-class in particular should shift. And that rought down-shift that may suddenly happen when cruising around in parking lots and slowing down (aka: 3rd to 2nd gear) was really bad.

My current S560 shifts buttery smooth; but am shocked Mbenz has not fixed the shifting issues until this day as streamliner is not the only who reporting shifting problems. Mbenz engines are known to be the worst anyway.

Originally Posted by Streamliner

Well, is it time for me to again say how I think MB is trying to do way too many things at the same time? Even though some models have been dropped, many more have been added and I can’t imagine how the dealers can handle the volume of servicing. I believe many—if not most— of the MB dealer service departments are the same size today as they were ten or even fifteen years ago, when there were far fewer models. So, they are constantly under the gun to get cars in and out, with almost no time left for in-depth diagnosis of serious problems, let alone difficult, time consuming repairs.

At the factory level, I believe many of the “old guard” employees who guided MB and built a company obsessed with quality, have retired. The younger generation has fully bought into the idea that vehicles should last for maybe five years and then be recycled, like washing machines. They are trying to be everything to everyone and in the process, are turning off many of their long time, very loyal customers, like ME! My feeling is that MB built the last vehicles that were of interest to me, prior to the 2021 model year.

Of course, as always, this is all my opinion and I certainly understand that others will disagree.

Originally Posted by crabman

Have they made Mercedes more accessible, or have they made a car with a Mercedes badge more accessible?

I'm going to be straight up here. I like this car, saying otherwise would be a lie. This is the part where everything after the but is what matters.... BUT... The only reason that I don't like some other car better is because no one is making it. If Porsche made an actual luxury car, no sport, pure luxury, I'm absolutely convinced it would be better in almost every way. We'd have better climate control, better wipers, better headlights, better shifting transmissions, a massive reduction in squeaks, suspension that didn't BANG over anything bigger than a modest bump, and on and on and on. Hell, even the kick to open the trunk works every single time on a Panamera. Every. Single. Time. Everything works. Every. Single. Time.

You don't have to go to a hypothetical though; right now a Toyota I rented recently shifted better than my S Class. Just like almost every car I rent. I adjusted the climate once in it and it didn't need to be touched again. Typical anymore but not in an S Class, you have to fool with it every drive. It's an example and I could go on in the same vein for quite a while but I don't want to bore.

A different hypothetical. If the new 7 didn't look like used toilet paper, I'd be over there.

Bottom line: Is it really a Mercedes experience that has been opened up to more people? Maybe. But only if the Mercedes experience is about being functionally outclassed in many respects by cars a fraction of its cost.

Originally Posted by Streamliner

You hit all the nails squarely on the head!

Thats what is just SO frustrating! How long has the world been using automatic transmissions? This is not rocket science, this is Auto Making 101: The transmissions should work perfectly ALL the time, period! Virtually every passenger vehicle produced today has a flawlessly operating automatic transmission—with the exception being many of those made by MB. And, it’s “The Emperor’s New Clothes,” as we are not supposed to notice! It’s a Mercedes-Benz, so it MUST be working correctly, right?

I have no source to back this up, it is just my opinion, but I believe a huge part of this is MB dealing with CAFE standards in the USA and the truly insane “green” requirements in Europe. Just so they can continue to offer the hugely profitable & gas guzzling AMG & Maybach vehicles, they need to microsqueeze every molecule of fuel mileage out of every other vehicle they produce, to the point of making their transmissions operate on a knife edge of reliability. The next time some clown goes roaring past you in his AMG GTR, remember that his fun in disturbing the peace is why your transmission doesn’t know which gear to choose.

Originally Posted by places

Mercedes abandoned their standards years ago when they decided they want to be everything to everyone. Visions of MB product in every driveway caused dilution. It's no longer a Mercedes experience per se, but as you stated access to the badge. Cashing in on heritage. Mercedes is going after a newer generation of consumers that have no clue as to what proper luxury or quality even means or ever was.

As for Porsche, they still seem to be able to produce a high quality product with little if any flaws. Fewer product lines and not trying to be everything. Just keep refining what they do well and what got them where they are. Simple philosophy.

Originally Posted by Quietride

Funnily enough the 2018 LS was a 9/10 for Car & Driver. For most of us I'm sure it was more like a 4/10.

Reviewers do a great job of pushing car companies in stupid directions.

Originally Posted by W205C43PFL

I guess also to be fair they are required to do so, by law, if they don't do it voluntarily, OP can hire a attorney to handle it and OP will most likely win so MB not only have to buyback the car at the end of the day, they will also have to pay for the lawyer fees, etc. (Although it is probably pocket change to MB... I guess).

Originally Posted by SW20S

a lot of carmakers REALLY fight this though

Originally Posted by W205C43PFL

Forgot to ask, how many dealerships did you go to to try to get it fixed?

Originally Posted by W205C43PFL

I wonder if third times a charm applies... maybe.... perhaps....

Originally Posted by W205C43PFL

It also depends on who offers the most for the journalists/reviewers... ie. press trips, how many stars for the hotel? how were the meals?... you get the idea, it is hard to write an unbiased review when manufacturers go above and beyond to make sure the reviewer/journalist enjoy the experience... of the press trip not the car... you would had thought that instead they spent that time and money on R&D and all that effort in the product (and improvements) itself, it would be better?

Originally Posted by W205C43PFL

Originally Posted by Quietride

Agreed. The journalists are 100% reliant on the car companies for income.

"Automakers spent more than $15 billion on advertising in 2018, according to Ad Age, and these nine award givers get cuts of that big pie: Automobile, Car and Driver, Edmunds, Green Car Journal, J.D. Power, KBB, MotorTrend, Popular Mechanics, and U.S. News & World Report all carry advertising from automakers."

https://www.checkbook.org/national/a...-Interest-7318

And we're supposed to trust these people despite the glaring conflict of interest? It's just insane.