Streamliner

There is a comparison review of the current R232 SL63AMG to the Porsche 911 Cabriolet and the Bentley Continental Convertible, that has been posted in the R232 forum. In it, references are made to the W223 cars and I thought I would post some outtakes from that review here. It’s interesting to hear what the reviewer has to say about things common to both the R232 and the W223:


“But no one over the age of 15 has a cat in hell's chance of operating the SL's disastrously unhelpful interior. It’s like a greatest hits compilation of everything we detest about modern car cabins. Fiddly touch-sensitive pads on the three-spoke steering wheel? Check. All major functions entrusted to a fingerprint- smeared touchscreen? Oh yes. More ambient lighting options than helpful features? Yep.”

”The very fact Mercedes has motorised the touchscreen to change angle depending on sun glare should’ve hinted to headquarters they were engineering their way out of a design dead end. The screen gets worryingly hot even on a brisk winter’s day – those processors are working really quite hard to do the job a button would be better at.”

”Then there’s the driver’s instrument screen. Eight different displays to choose from. Above, seven varieties of head-up display. It’s bafflingly complicated and – criminally – makes the SL feel cheap inside. Instead of knurled metal switchgear, it’s red-hot pixels.”


“Yes, it’s basically all carried over from an S-Class. But an S-Class is an easygoing deluxe barge. The SL63 is a missile. When you’ve got almost 600bhp and 600lb ft of torque on tap, Ferrari-quick steering in your hands and an alarmingly firm ride under your bum, it’d be nice to feel like the interior hadn’t been set up like an escape room, brimming with puzzles, calculated frustrations and devious dead ends.”

VERDICT

1: Porsche 911 GTS Cabrio [9/10]

The least head-turning car, but a brilliant all-rounder. Even rather good value for money

2: Bentley Continental GTC Speed [8/10]

Tripped up by its lazy gearbox, but what a way to travel. The only true four-seater here

3: Mercedes-AMG SL63 [6/10]

A schizophrenic effort: amazing powertrain meets clumsy chassis and horrendous interior

Dima

You have to be aware who wrote this piece: the notorious anti-touchscreen crusader.
The other reviewer in the same magazine, writing about the same tech in a different model had a completely different opinion.

Streamliner

Well, of course, different opinions are certainly out there, but I find that I agree with most of them noted in this review. I cannot imagine dealing with that big touchscreen in an open top vehicle and the steering wheel controls ARE horrible, in my opinion. And it IS hard enough being distracted by these things in the relaxed confines of the big sedan, but must be much more so in a rough riding, blistering fast convertible.

Dima

I get it, but it takes time to get used to things. It depends where one is in life I guess. To some the touch screen stuff is like a second nature, but all the new software and services are being developed on new platforms.
MB might be a bit ahead, but if anything, the touch controls would be replaced by voice and gesture. If MB had stayed with all physical controls, they'd be criticized for being behind the times.
It used to be that only older population had money to afford MB so the path was a clear one, now they have to please everyone from 25 to over 100.

Streamliner

I agree with much of what you say. Even though I don’t care for these control systems, I might have warmed to them if they actually WORKED smoothly, but they don’t. Just yesterday, I had to punch the cruise control button five times before it worked, And, I won’t even start on how many times my myriad settings have been lost for no apparent reason. The control systems in the W223 were not given the thorough testing they required, before they were sent to market in the MB flagship sedans, and we all are now paying the price.

SW20S

I was able to do pretty much anything I wanted to do in the W223 MBUX within about 15 minutes of playing with it. The physical controls are much better than the haptic controls on the steering wheel, but I think this is really dramatic.

superswiss

Let me preface this by saying I'm a computer engineer and grew up in a digital world. So, gadgets and technology are my thing. My smart home is full of technology from the washer and dryer that alert me on my phone when the load is done to smart locks and connected garage door opener and Gigabit Ethernet throughout the house with Gigabit symmetric Internet I have it all. Touchscreen on my smartphone and fitness tracker etc. great! Touch interface in a car; stupid. Especially so in a car that's sporty and firm. Try to hit something on the touchscreen with your free-floating arm bouncing around. It's playing Whack-A-Mole while driving. The capacitive buttons on the steering wheel are horrible. Simple things like turning up the volume a notch or two is nearly impossible as you have to try to swipe it with precision while you are bouncing around in your seat. It's not about having a learning curve. It's about a fundamentally misguided UX in a car.

As an AMG driver I can tell you that cars like this need to be driver oriented and the things that are used frequently need to be ergonomic and easy to operate. The SL like other AMGs does have the AMG Drive Unit on the steering wheel at least through which you can easily adjust the drive mode and related settings via a knob on the right and two programmable soft buttons on the left. I love this in my AMG. But the rest is an ergonomic nightmare. Trying to configure and control things through the touchscreen while driving is silly and super distracting. I had a few loaners now with the new interface with plenty of time behind the wheel and trust me, it's not about getting used to it.

It's not for nothing that customer satisfaction has taken a nosedive. Volkswagen was the first to admit that going with a touch interface and capacitive buttons was a mistake and they are rolling it back for future models. The new chairman has specifically pointed out that constantly changing the interface with every new generation of cars is frustrating customers. There are only so many functions that a car does, and moving the controls around every time a new generation comes out doesn't serve any purpose. It's just change for change’s sake. You don't have to be anti-touchscreen to admit that it's an unsuitable interface for a moving car where you are supposed to pay attention to the road and not a touchscreen. It's been shown many times that these touch interfaces are mentally more demanding. Voice control isn't' the solution, either. Voice control is surprisingly mentally demanding, because you still have to think about how to phrase your command even in the newer so-called natural language systems. It's not a natural conversation when talking to a machine.

crabman

I'm old and pathetic and figured it out without much effort; getting old as a reason to not learn something is just an excuse for laziness. As for kids: Outside of doing all night what it takes me all night to do; a young person ought to be able to parse out the MBUX system; no free passes on tech you're born with and utilize all your lives. Not saying anyone should like it, you do, or you don't, but you can figure it out.

Don't get me wrong: I'd rather have physical buttons for frequently used functions and by no small margin, but that was over the top.

SW20S

Lets be honest, 99% of people driving an SL aren't driving it like they're in the 24 hours of LeMans. They're driving it like a car. When you are driving aggressively on a technical road, the last thing you should be thinking about or doing is adjusting things in the screen. I just don't think this is that big a deal...

teksurv

I'm fine with the infotainment display. Mainly because the climate controls are static and I don't have to dig through menu layers to get to it. The "buttons" on the steering wheel (especially volume control as noted above) and side/wing mirror controls are horrid. It just feels cheap and sharing multiple functions on one plastic button is problematic unless you stare at it. I'm in my forties, it's not a matter of learning it, it's a matter of using it.

chassis

Excellent and credible analysis, thanks.

Streamliner

You are right. For most people, it isn’t a big deal, because those people don’t care. But, for those who do care, especially those who have had much better recently—or even currently—we find ourselves very disappointed.

How much did MB save by switching to these horribly cheap, plastic steering wheel & other controls? Was it worth the savings to diminish the luxury quotient in their top line vehicles? Might it not have been a better move to actually increase the luxuriousness of their most prestigious cars? If it is all a matter of costs, might it have been much better to cut something that was not so immediately and constantly in touch with the driver? Of course, I imagine that they HAVE cheapened everything else, at least that’s what my S580 seems to be telling me on a daily basis.

Sooner or later, word from those who DO care, starts to trickle down to those who don’t and the 3-pointed star’s reputation sinks a bit lower.

Dima

I am still not understanding what functionality you guys have trouble with on a touch screen. The climate is there, the music streaming you just touch for the next or previous and there is a physical loudness slider.
The AMG engine controls are physical if you'd prefer that, the phone numbers can be input into memory with a single touch recall. As a matter of fact, most of the common functions can be assigned to large buttons on MBUX, have you tried it? In that case it's much easier to see and operate than tiny physical ones. Apple carplay or Android Auto are what they are regardless.
Last week I went to a very challenging F1 track I had no issues with any controls.

Streamliner

Of course, there are folks who do like these things. You seem to be one of them and I am happy for you.

crabman

I don't think it matters for track duty, last time I was out I had changed the radio station accidentally while lapping; and that was with physical controls. It's not like you can hear it anyway with all the noise, and the car didn't care. To me, the whole "a real performance car shouldn't have touch screens" is somewhat misplaced. When you're actually driving for sport it's, wheel, throttle, brake, shifting, and if you're my age, waving cars by. Nowadays half the guys out there are in automatics and a chunk of them are letting the car shift because they'll do better without the load.

Every car should have physical buttons for frequently used functions because they're easier to use and reduce the time of interaction, and with it, distracted driving. If anything it matters more out on the street slogging in traffic because you then will actually be digging in to those menus and losing situational awareness, whereas during sporting driving you're not touching any of it at all, physical or not.

I think the guys that do like their sporting drives just notice it more. As an example, it seems very clear over my time here that the modes in this car are something many don't even notice or use. To me, they need work and are poorly set up. But I'm used to driving my cars for fun, getting into the whole feel of it. This probably describes superswiss and others as well. I didn't buy this car for that and I'm doubtful most do but you can take the car guy out of a sports car but you cant get the car guy out of him.

To go back to controls it's not just a screen, you have voice. To use Dima's example: It's easier to say "Hey Mercedes, call X" than it is to use the screen, but also would be easier than a physical buttons and less distracting. There is a lot that can be done with voice if you try it, but first you have to get over the idea that you shouldn't have to talk to your car. That's just ignorance talking, and I'm guilty of it myself. I didn't want to talk to cars because it didn't work well in previous outings and it wasn't what I was used to doing. It works in this car and it turns out it's easy and did not make my ***** fall off. I'd recommend giving it a shot to anyone that can get past their bias towards it.

There is some win in this tech; it's not all bad.

SW20S

I don't think they saved anything, I think they decided to make a move to a haptic control as part of an attempt to become more tech forward. No question that the physical controls are better, but I don't think its that huge a monumental thing, and wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

Streamliner

Not a deal breaker for me either. However, when added to everything else that is sketchy about the 223’s, I’m done with them.

chassis

As “they” say, there’s one born every minute. Most buyers don’t know any better that the previous model of any car was better than the one they are sitting in.

Cheaping out happens across the industry at all price points. Maybe not for Bentley, RR and Ferrari, I don’t know. But those brands have some hand-me-down parts so they are getting chintzed as well, maybe to a lesser extent.

Consider for example the facelift Cayenne, which is easily seen to have many corners cut in the interior, compared to the pre-facelift car. People with pre-facelift cars know this and call it out for what it is. The first time Porsche buyer or even a first time Cayenne buyer doesn’t know any better.

Same with MB. First time S-Class buyer doesn’t know what a W126 was like, so crap reliability and plastic fantastic interior suits him/her/it just fine.

It confirms the notion that carmakers are not paying attention to “discerning” or long time brand loyalists. They are paying attention to regulatory requirements and profits. Can’t argue with that, they are businesses after all.

So if a car company doesn’t make product decisions based on opinions of “those who know” why should anyone remain loyal to a brand in the first place?

California John

The steering when buttons don't bother me at all and neither does the touchscreen. I have them customized for my uses and made them my friends rather than may enemies. I made a conscious choice in mental orientation. What I need is either visually in front of me or at the touch of a button - on either the steering wheel or the display. Here is what I did: I decided that there was a certain amount of customization that was available that I could use and some that I couldn't. And I tried to get into the heads of the designers (assumed that they are smart people who want to make it good and usable for us rather than ...... insert whatever pejoratives one wants....) and made it work well for me. I don't believe that my case is everyone's - but why should it - some will like and some won't.

SW20S

I want to add one this, Stream and others love this steering wheel and decry all the plastic on the new one, the steering wheel in my S560 is beautiful and functional I agree and I too prefer it to the steering wheel in the 223, but its all plastic. They just chose piano black plastic on the 223 vs painted silver plastic on the 222. Lets not pretend they went from metal to plastic.

Wolfman

I think the W223 non-AMG steering wheels are ugly as sin. Just not a good design. The AMG twin spoke one in the S63 and other AMG's I like. But that was similar to the W222. Only the MY18 facelift brought the coupe steering wheel to the sedan. The prior W222 steering wheel definitely had the 1960's vibes...

S_W222

I agree. The W222 steering wheel especially the one with wood on it is a piece of art combined with good engineering. The wood feels soooooo good to the touch, yet also all together combined with heating is phenomenal. I also also love the rolling-dial for adjusting the sound. The small dials with touch pads can sometimes be picky, but I managed to adjust the sensitivity to my liking from the setting window and they always save me from the need to stretch my hands or get to the central console dial/buttons. At least it so good to quickly pause music when on Carplay or to accept the predicated destination by apple Map. The placement of the drive assist buttons is also ideal compared to the stick in pre-facelift. Last item that I appreciate is the ease of dialing the favorite button, and then through the touch bad, I can select the preferring options via 1-2 buttons all together from the steering. My setting for the favorite buttons on the steering is to: 1. Call my wife, and 2nd is the Massage seats activation. i think most of that is available on the W223, but converting all of this to touch buttons and glossy looking instead of metal buttons was a stupid engineering decision.

superswiss

I could be wrong, but the metallic looking parts are not painted. It's metalized plastic. While plastic underneath, the top layer one touches is aluminum.

https://www.deepcoat.com/what-to-kno...izing-plastic/

Drone_S213

Wish I got the 2020 E63s with better steering wheel and IWC clock. Order got pushed to MY2021 because of Pandemic. When driving sometimes brush steering wheel with right hand which changes my XM/Sirius station.

Where are you located in Bay area @superswiss ? First came there in 1987 when BCS Ex took job with HP with her Cobol skill set. Returned nearly 20-years later to LLNL to support development of their Solid State Slab Laser with General Atomics Power Supplies. SSL was later moved to my High Energy Laser Test Facility at Missile Range for testing. Army was transitioning from Megawatt Chemical Lasers to Kilowatt Class Solid State Systems that eliminated dangerous Chemicals in Fuel Farm and overall footprint size that covered several Acres. Now SSLs are operational on Navy Ships, Army Vehicles, Tripod mounted Sentinel systems to guard the Troops against Mortar and Drone attack. Soon General Atomics will place a SSL on its Predator/Reaper Drones and Lockheed will incorporate it internally on F-35 JSF. Originally got my CDL for Field Engineering Role on mobile radar unit deployed to all unPleasant hotspots around the Globe. After 30+ years supporting Laser projects miss driving Semis in Permian Basin Oilfields for Cash to pay MIT Tuition for Daughter (Course 6).

Son is a Computer Engineering major at GA Tech...Waiting to get him off the payroll in 2026!

S_W222

Am sure that is at least the case for the window switches. I am not sure about the steering buttons, but they truly feel metallic at least on the steering. I am 100% sure the window switches are not; but I still get (at least the feeling) that the steering wheel buttons are metallic at least for the touch (they are always coldish in winter, and get a bit hot when car is parked under the sun more than other materialized components. They also feel more solid.