S65 Intercooler Pump - Upgrade or leave stock?
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From: Houston, TX
'05 C55
S65 Intercooler Pump - Upgrade or leave stock?
I have an '06 S65 with a Jerry tune and K&N filters (595 RWHP). The factory intercooler pump has been working fine. Will changing the pump to a Meziere or equivalent do anything to lower IAT's by itself or will a heat exchanger need to be done as well? I see where Renntech recommends a pump change even without an upgraded heat exchanger and theirs flows nearly three times that of the original pump.
I've been recording IAT data for the past few weeks as compared to outside ambient temps.
Anyone with proven data on whether this is worth it or not please chime in!
I've been recording IAT data for the past few weeks as compared to outside ambient temps.
Anyone with proven data on whether this is worth it or not please chime in!
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From: The Jersey Shore
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Just changing the pump can increase your IAT's without the correct sized trunk mounted coolant tank. The Meziere is such a strong pump, moving more gpm than stock or even a Johnson, that it will recirculate the hot coolant so quickly, it may not have enough time to cool off the coolant, even with a 1 or 2 gallon auxillary coolant tank.
If you swap the pump, have someone run a trunk mounted coolant tank that is a minimum of 4 gallons. This way there is a gallon in the lines (coming to and going from the tank) and 4 gallons in the tank. Then I bet you see very noticable changes in your IAT's. And no need for a new exchanger with the Meziere pushing so much coolant so quickly.
The Meziere pump is the brand I will use in my cooling package upgrade on my 05 S600 in a few months.....I am following exactly what I stated above.
Just the pump and trunk tank.
P.S. You will need a custom bracket fabricated to support the slightly bigger Meziere charge pump.
-Chris
If you swap the pump, have someone run a trunk mounted coolant tank that is a minimum of 4 gallons. This way there is a gallon in the lines (coming to and going from the tank) and 4 gallons in the tank. Then I bet you see very noticable changes in your IAT's. And no need for a new exchanger with the Meziere pushing so much coolant so quickly.
The Meziere pump is the brand I will use in my cooling package upgrade on my 05 S600 in a few months.....I am following exactly what I stated above.
Just the pump and trunk tank.
P.S. You will need a custom bracket fabricated to support the slightly bigger Meziere charge pump.
-Chris
Last edited by Vabene7; May 26, 2011 at 09:45 PM.
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From: Houston, TX
18 Titan XD 13 Cayenne TT 13 BMW HP4
I have a meziere pump on my SL65 and have no cooling issues. It is bone stock otherwise. Adding the larger reservior would only help things for longer, hard runs for sure.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 171
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From: Houston, TX
'05 C55
I've been used an Actron scanner to record mt IAT's under varying conditions and throttle load. I'm looking at putting in a trunk mounted intercooler reservoir, I just want to take up the least amount of space possible. One of my complaints on the S65 is the incredibly small trunk compared to an E Class...
I really would want a "Killer Chiller" on this engine as I feel it would net the greatest result but no ones done it yet on an S Class that I've seen. It would offer near winter air performance in the heat of summer...
I really would want a "Killer Chiller" on this engine as I feel it would net the greatest result but no ones done it yet on an S Class that I've seen. It would offer near winter air performance in the heat of summer...
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Supra
Here's what I went through:
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ll-review.html
Since then, the temps have gotten higher...but the ambient temps are also much higher.
The killer chiller is a wild setup, but I think I'm going with a methanol injection setup this Summer on top of what I have.
Jay
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ll-review.html
Since then, the temps have gotten higher...but the ambient temps are also much higher.
The killer chiller is a wild setup, but I think I'm going with a methanol injection setup this Summer on top of what I have.
Jay
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 171
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From: Houston, TX
'05 C55
Here's what I went through:
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ll-review.html
Since then, the temps have gotten higher...but the ambient temps are also much higher.
The killer chiller is a wild setup, but I think I'm going with a methanol injection setup this Summer on top of what I have.
Jay
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ll-review.html
Since then, the temps have gotten higher...but the ambient temps are also much higher.
The killer chiller is a wild setup, but I think I'm going with a methanol injection setup this Summer on top of what I have.
Jay
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From: The Jersey Shore
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Here's what I went through:
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ll-review.html
Since then, the temps have gotten higher...but the ambient temps are also much higher.
The killer chiller is a wild setup, but I think I'm going with a methanol injection setup this Summer on top of what I have.
Jay
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ll-review.html
Since then, the temps have gotten higher...but the ambient temps are also much higher.
The killer chiller is a wild setup, but I think I'm going with a methanol injection setup this Summer on top of what I have.
Jay
Philly,
Do you think it was very benificial to have the upgraded trunk reservoir and Meziere pump installed? Are you seeing a big difference between pre and post modification?
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Supra
Hey Guys -
Took the car out today and it was absolutely blazing out hot, it was about 94-95F here by Philly today. I warmed the car up and then beat the hell out of it for about 10min's and then started logging...also beating on it. I have some mixed feelings.
Cruising ~50mph, light throttle 10%-ish, I was seeing pretty consistant 125-130F. Acceleration, but still in vacuum would dip that down to 115-125F.
A 1st-2nd gear (both to redline) WOT pull would max out at 136F
Here's my mixed feelings...my last pull...granted the car was hot after making numerous pulls...but still.
1st-3rd hard pull...by 4300rpm in 3rd gear it was touching 153F! However, this did settle down to 131-136F afterwards while cruising.
Like others have said, I think the extra several gallons of fluid will help in any situation, perhaps more so with this much bigger pump.
What all this is telling me 1) mid 90deg temps are just brutal on these cars and 2) I really think these cars would benefit huge from a nice, big heat exchanger to get more air across the fluid. Otherwise, once this stuff gets hot, is obviously very hard to get it cooled off again.
My next mods: 1) bigger heat exchanger, would be great if there was room to have a fan mounted to it as well. 2) methanol injection - giddy up.
On a side note, this Friday, I'm going to the track and plan on stuffing the remote tank full of ice and logging...so stay tuned for IAT's from a tank full of ice
Jay
Took the car out today and it was absolutely blazing out hot, it was about 94-95F here by Philly today. I warmed the car up and then beat the hell out of it for about 10min's and then started logging...also beating on it. I have some mixed feelings.
Cruising ~50mph, light throttle 10%-ish, I was seeing pretty consistant 125-130F. Acceleration, but still in vacuum would dip that down to 115-125F.
A 1st-2nd gear (both to redline) WOT pull would max out at 136F
Here's my mixed feelings...my last pull...granted the car was hot after making numerous pulls...but still.
1st-3rd hard pull...by 4300rpm in 3rd gear it was touching 153F! However, this did settle down to 131-136F afterwards while cruising.
Like others have said, I think the extra several gallons of fluid will help in any situation, perhaps more so with this much bigger pump.
What all this is telling me 1) mid 90deg temps are just brutal on these cars and 2) I really think these cars would benefit huge from a nice, big heat exchanger to get more air across the fluid. Otherwise, once this stuff gets hot, is obviously very hard to get it cooled off again.
My next mods: 1) bigger heat exchanger, would be great if there was room to have a fan mounted to it as well. 2) methanol injection - giddy up.
On a side note, this Friday, I'm going to the track and plan on stuffing the remote tank full of ice and logging...so stay tuned for IAT's from a tank full of ice
Jay
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Supra
Another update...logged data this morning. Did the proper warm up...but with slightly less beating on the car 
Air Temps: ~82-83F
Cruising: ~119F
Only got 1 decent pull in and it dipped to 113F @ 26.3psi
Moderate pull (after big one) 114F @ 15.4psi
Last minute of normal driving until I turned the car off, avg of 127F
Air Temps: ~82-83F
Cruising: ~119F
Only got 1 decent pull in and it dipped to 113F @ 26.3psi
Moderate pull (after big one) 114F @ 15.4psi
Last minute of normal driving until I turned the car off, avg of 127F
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Relating to your post from yesterday - on a hot day like Memorial Day, are you feeling a loss of power (i.e. the computer pulling timing and boost) because of the heat?
Those recent IAT's from today still sound pretty good as compared to what the car would be without the tank and pump.....
Those recent IAT's from today still sound pretty good as compared to what the car would be without the tank and pump.....
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Supra
Relating to your post from yesterday - on a hot day like Memorial Day, are you feeling a loss of power (i.e. the computer pulling timing and boost) because of the heat?
Those recent IAT's from today still sound pretty good as compared to what the car would be without the tank and pump.....
Those recent IAT's from today still sound pretty good as compared to what the car would be without the tank and pump.....
If you wanna make a drive and bring out your car, Friday night looks like really nice weather for racing! I'll be at Atco.
Jay
Last edited by Philly Single; Jun 1, 2011 at 10:13 AM.
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From: Houston, TX
18 Titan XD 13 Cayenne TT 13 BMW HP4
MBWorld Fanatic!
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W221 S65 AMG
I had a bad stock (non Johnson pump) on my early year 2007 S65. It died. IATs were high.
Went with meziere pump - dead on arrival. not happy.
Now on meziere pump #2 and its junk. Not working whatsoever. High IATs.
Car in shop getting Johnson pump, vacuum flush and Eurochared secondary head exchange and new tune.
Base line with problems: 525 rwhp and 705 rwtq
I am expecting some serious gains once i get the car back, test and confirm IATs are in check then will dyno it.
Went with meziere pump - dead on arrival. not happy.
Now on meziere pump #2 and its junk. Not working whatsoever. High IATs.
Car in shop getting Johnson pump, vacuum flush and Eurochared secondary head exchange and new tune.
Base line with problems: 525 rwhp and 705 rwtq
I am expecting some serious gains once i get the car back, test and confirm IATs are in check then will dyno it.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 6
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s65 amg
Heat and heat
Hi my name is Mohammad Alshareef from Saudia Arabia i'm facing the same problem in my S65 the iat's is 174 f don't know what to do while i replaced the original heat exchanger and added an external heat exchanger and a meziere pumb as recommended from the tuner in USA after upgrading the ECU and TCU ,down pipes i really dont know what do after i'be been through what u guys r saying about upgrading the pumb to meziere that is going to increase the iat so i was thinking of buying a new intercoolers can anyone help me and tell me what to do thank u all
I would love it if anyone can help me or whatsapp my number is
+966556665655
I would love it if anyone can help me or whatsapp my number is
+966556665655
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,605
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
The Meziere pump really isn't suitable for charge cooling - its a small engine cooling pump, with high flow / low pressure characteristics. These are the opposite of what's needed for IC pumping. All the Johnson and Davies Craig pumps are the same.
A dedicated IC pump is preferred. The Bosch is OK, the Pierburgs are better, and the big EMP WP29 is the best of all. See my sig.
Nick
A dedicated IC pump is preferred. The Bosch is OK, the Pierburgs are better, and the big EMP WP29 is the best of all. See my sig.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Oct 22, 2015 at 05:52 PM.
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e55 amg 2005
IAT's doubt
The Intake Air Temperature sensor (IAT) monitors the temperature of the air entering the engine. The engine computer (PCM) needs this information to estimate air density so it can balance air air/fuel mixture. Colder air is more dense than hot air, so cold air requires more fuel to maintain the same air/fuel ratio. The PCM changes the air/fuel ratio by changing the length (on time) of the injector pulses... Does this means that car performance should not be afected by the temperature the air gets in, because fuel delivery is adjusted accordanlly, right?... The S65 2007 user manual says engine oil temperature should be at least 176 F to be "ready" to properly perform, actually it advise driving, lets say "calm" until this temperature is reached (the amg screen temp display turns from blue to white at 176 F)... How this two variables interact with each other, looks like engine oil "hot enough" is what Engineers were trying to achive... Jet Turbine are most efecient at -58 F, less fuel needed for same trust, due to lower air density... What I am getting wrong?
MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 2,605
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Ambient air temp DOES affect engine power. Colder is better. What it shouldn't affect is the combustion stoichiometry.
Nick
