I’ve always wanted an AMG but couldn’t in good conscience spend the money for a new or newish one when I mostly work from home and have a take home car. So I set my sights on older E63s and S63s. I was high bidder on BaT for the below car. 2008 S63 with the P30 Package. Knew I wasn’t getting it for my high bid of 18k. Seller offered it to me at 22k (and it will cost about 1000 to ship it to MD) Seem like a decent deal?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...et_high_bidder

 

Head bolts. Oil Leaks. Camshaft, lifter and adjuster wear. And the worst part...16 year old ABC suspension....yikes! The other problem is that this is a big, heavy car, and even the mighty m156 engine struggles to move it with any impressive authority. The S and CL classes really need the v12 to feel like something special. Also BaT has become nothing but a dumping ground for wholesalers to flip auction cars to unsuspecting buyers halfway across the country, making it that much less likely they will have any responsibility for the "as-is" sale.

 

What? I have this car and it certainly moves. Have you actually driven one? In stock form it can hang with a stock W211 E55...and can do more than two pulls before going into limp mode like the E55.

Also, everything you mention about the engine are on the top of the engine, so no need to remove. And that's if they need to be done. This car has 55K miles and probably won't need that work done for a very very long time...if ever. Every person that I've seen do the head bolt job ends with, "Well, these are fine. But, I'm glad I did it though...I guess. If I had known, I wouldn't have bothered."

The oil leaks are a thing, but that's just cylinder head gaskets. A DIY fix.

Stop pushing fear and misinformation.

 

If you can get it for 20K plus 1K shipping, that'd be fair. And even if you had to do the engine work listed above (in the distant future), for $5K, you'd still be coming out waaaay ahead.

55K miles on a 15 year old car is an average of 3,600 miles a year. This was someone's 2nd (or 3rd) car.

EDIT: I just realized that it has the P30 performance package. I think $22K + $1K shipping is fair. It also has 27 service record on CarFax, many at MB dealerships.

With a $200 PPI, I would consider flying out and driving it back.

 

(Apologies for all of the replies)

My only negative comment is that you should have at least $5K available for maintenance when you buy any Mercedes over 10 years old. Being that you work from home (I do, too), you won't be out of sorts if it did have to be out of commission for a while. And, of course, this is even easier if this isn't the only car in the household.

That being said, because the W221 chassis is so old, there are a lot of DIY tutorials here and on YT to help you out if you want to do things yourself.
Any Mercedes out of warranty will drain your wallet if you took it to the dealership whenever something happened to it. If you want a budget-friendly experience, get a Toyota or Lexus.

 

Appreciate the feedback. I know to budget 5k or so year for any out of warranty Benz (or Audi or BMW). I’m now pondering a later model CLS550 (2012-2017 range) and getting it tuned. The CLS has a sportier look and you can have a little fun with the TT engines vs the big NA 6.2l.

 

That's a good deal on that car, if there is nothing seriously wrong. I hunted for a W221 S63 (and the CL63 as well) for 3 months in the Boston area earlier this year. I drove both the sedan and the coupe (with a buddy who now owns a 2012 CLS550 - we'll get to that) and let me tell you this...the hype about the M156 is real. It's an actual "no shared parts" AMG racing motor through and through. It's not a regular Mercedes motor with some AMG enfacements like the M157 is. It has NO trouble throwing those heavy cars down the road with authority and the sound it makes as it approaches 7k on the tach is pure enjoyment. The twin turbo motors don't come close imho to the sound of the big NA 6.2 (although they are certainly more powerful).

If you have not actually driven one - you need to. I think you also need to buy one locally or at least drive the one you are going to buy before you plunk down your money. I eventually gave up my search (and got a 2014 W222 S63 instead) because every car I drove had noticeable issues that a remote seller might have not disclosed. These are complex and expensive cars to repair and own. For me - I wanted "the one" and while I came close to finding it (like this one here that the seller sold to someone locally before we could reach a deal: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...enz-s63-amg-2/) , I had to give up and expand the search to the W222 generation. Sure it's a lot faster and has the amazing new interior, but my buddy and I STILL talk about our test drives in with the M156. That motor...oh that motor....

Back to what he ended up with - the 2012 CLS550 - for a bit. It's a really nice car but it's not an S63. The twin turbo 4.7 has tons of power but it's pretty muffled and the whole car doesn't have an AMG feel. It's more luxury and less sport. The air suspension is magical I will say that...much better ride that the ABC suspension in my S63. Like WAY better.

Good luck with your search !

 

Have you driven both of these? If so, what did you think about them?

If not, I suggest that you do. I was fascinated by the 996 911 for a while...until I drove one and, while OK, I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, I liked my S63 waaay more than I thought I would. The Airmatic II suspension is really, really nice, and I'm particularly keen to nuances of suspensions.

 

Yeah, the M156 is really freaking good. I keep my door open during cold starts in the garage 😂

Here is some info that I didn't know about the M156:


Here's a guy that loves his M156 E63 and explains what the concerns are with the engine and works on them in his garage:

His head bolts were fine.

Another guy addressing the cam adjusters...in his garage:
All of the above look like major surgery, but for a decent shop (or competent DIYer, it's not). Doing such "top of the engine" work is a lot easier than doing similar "bottom of the engine" work...that's if it needs to be done at all.

 

one of those video's is a guy named Chris, he's got that E63. He buys some parts at my dealership that i can come close on pricing with haha

 

Ha! I like his videos...well, the MB content at least. I'm not into his other vehicles.

 

@MDPensfan , PM sent. Let me know here if you don't have enough posts to PM me back.

 

I am sure nothing is terribly wrong here after what you wrote! Are you sure its a Mercedes M156??? If you are there is definitely something is really not right with your engine, this car flies aggressively i kill GT Mustangs and Corvettes with makes everyone cracking laughing, I ownes a CL55 for 2 years and i was so tough on it had 160K miles when i sold it and the guy kept thanking me for years now i have the big boss W221 and its a monster

 

if you want a fun project car it's not an S63. If you have an S63 your life should pretty much revolve around daily driving it and keeping it running. It's a lot of car so you should always have some kind of awareness of how it's doing at all times so nothing sneaks up on you. You will lose money in depreciation, repairs, tire, brakes, annual filter and fluid changes. The plugs and coils on this car alone are $400 IIRC, I'm gonna want my end for labor too. I wouldn't do it, the ABC is kind of the last nail in the coffin for me. If it was airmatic I could make a better case. My one question is, how good are you at indentifying a cars porblems?

The brake discs are really expensive. Theyre $1300 for the fronts. If you budget 5k a year and find a small indy who has a ton of experience with AMG's thats a great and realistic budget. It's probably a $2400 brake job. If you stick to metallic compounds you can end up needing to do this every 2 years, switch to ceramic when you can. 5k is plenty of money as long as youre ok with frontloading and ghosting that 5k off the bat.

ABC is either really predictable or really not. The fact that MB did not tell you to change the fluid or accumulators regularly when they were new is pretty damning. Everything is replaceable but what is an ok number for you on a 20k car going down to nothing fast? 5k bill for 4 struts? 6k for 4 accumulators and struts? Tandem pump goes out, you cool with a $1200 part and another $800 in labor? (spitballing)

Fluids aren't anything exotic, CHF powersteering/suspension fluid should be replaced as soon as you get it. 229.5 oil, support your Amsoil forum sponsor. DOT4 every 2 years or annually if you can.

Now, onto the engine. It's an M156 which in my opinion was an excellent engine. The head bolt thing isn't an issue IIRC this late into production, the cam adjusters are a real thing but you'll know when you need to do it and thats like $3000, or you could just not have to ever do it. It's one of those things. The lifters are also a thing too, just keep up with your lubrication and be aware of metal in the oil or noises. $4000 with the SLS Black coated lifters. You can honestly just keep driving through it but yeah metal no good. The rest is just gas and oil. BMW problems have worse pitfalls sometimes.

I think if you bought this car for yourself new and we were keeping it running I'd be more excited than you jumping into it 16 years later.

 

Does anybody have the specifics on how to tell if an M156 was equipped with the upgraded head bolts and lifter buckets? I’m talking about from the factory.
(Edit: I see the AMGmeister video he specifies the engine numbers for the head bolts) but what about lifters.

Is there an example of what sound the lifter buckets would make as they wear and become close to failure?

Long time fan of the motor but these things would make me hesitate from owning one.

 

I think this might not apply to every single M156 though, I've read it even goes out to 2012 per FCPEuro which is all of them.

The lifter thing is obvious it's going to sound like a spray paint can being shaken x8. They also have issues with premature camshaft wear. I think certain oils just didn't vibe with it.

The upgrade is to the SLS Black ones which are $1700 in parts, the regular ones are $800.

Yeah I mean if something sounds like a bad idea for you don't just leap of faith it. These issues aren't uncommon enough to where you should put yourself in a position to have to need $5000 one day that you don't have. They're uncommon enough to where I'd just drive the thing and bail out as soon as I have intermix and deal with it at the shop. The amount of cars affected has to be under a certain amount so the manufacturer doesn't end up having to recall the entire run of cars. It's something under 5%, I was a Porsche 996 and 997 guy with the IMS, porous block casting, D-Chunking, timing guide and bore scoring and all of those issues combined didn't cause them to recall

 

Yeah I would really like to get into another AMG but it’s a matter of available examples, market and interest rates, and convincing my wife to let me. The M156 AMGs are generally in the right spot as far as price but just not sure if the possibility of the bolt or cam problems is worthwhile.

Replacing the head bolts, looking after your oil and just listening closely for lifter and camshaft noise could probably get by though.

 

You know. That CLS550 wouldnt be such a bad idea.

Im not saying the S63 is a bad car I love em but I think the ship has sailed on a 2008 being a good idea

 

M278 and M157 cylinder scoring though. Possibly a worse issue than the M156 head bolts and lifters. Doesn’t seem like owners are able to avoid it even with proper maintenance, and once you have it well that’s that.

 

yeah the short piston skirts aren't great. mine seems to be ok I have a lot of GLS customers around here that are still kickin but I'm aware of it.

 

I have the 2010 S63 and the 2010 S65, both designo finished. I can tell you that the S63 is more fun to drive, but the S65 has WICKED power.
That said, the S63 has the headbolt and cam adjuster wear issue...still fixable.

 

More "fun to drive" because right now power (naturally aspirated) v turbo spool + weight?

maw

 

As an update, there is a local S55 that I was able to look at. 2006, 67k miles, exclusively maintained at MB dealerships. Ohh, that supercharger whine! It sprang a coolant leak the next day (an ominous sign? lol) so the owner is getting it fixed by the dealership.

He’s only asking 15k. It’s obviously been well taken care of. Exterior in good shape, wheels recently refinished, seat functions all work. A slight vibration under acceleration, so engine mounts may be coming due? I’m off on vacation while it’s in the shop. Anything else I should check over? I asked for service records and for him to ask for a VMI report from the dealer if they’ll give it to him (doesn’t hurt to ask I suppose). Seems like a good deal, don’t want to dawdle too long on it.

 

If no accidents it is a good deal, particularly if it's garage kept. That's more important on these than may seem obvious. Lots of plastic and resin air lines and connectors to go wrong sitting out in the sun.

Look for ABC accumulator replacement and a fluid and filter changes. If none, expect to do that. Same for transmission fluid and filter. Both are no service interval items so expect them not to be don't and the seller not to want to pay. These will all cause untoward vibrations, same as engine and transmission mounts.

That's all I really worry about on this car. The rest is use dependent. The vacuum pumps for the soft close doors and dynamic seats go, but there are plenty of reasonable rebuilders out there.

I'm sure others will point out what I'm missing. @JohnLane @CICBarkeep @Welwynnick

maw

 

An MB dealer worth his salt will have suggested regular transmission servicing among others. A look through service records will verify.

221 cars have order of magnitude less ABC issues then 220 cars. 221 S63? Get the turbocharged bent eight or my choice... an S65. They can be had with reasonable miles for reasonable money. I loved my 221 S65 but it didn’t have enough brakes. I’m a savage. Solved that problem with a 222 S65 with carbon ceramic brakes. Mercedes makes huge improvements with each new chassis. Bummer the 223 is so hideous to my eye with the ridiculous TV screen in the middle and no V12.