GregN

Transmission continues to porpoise, have "dead spots" or rough shifts from start about 1-2x per week (when in any of the modes C, S or S+). So when in for service hard to duplicate and it gets the "all clear" from Service Centers (in fairness I cant blame them...they only have the car for 4-6hrs of work). Overall it performs worse then my wife's 2020 S class- shocking. Her car has very nice acceleration shifts...either normal or spirited missions. The transmission is predictable and consistent thru the gears (shift points).

The S63 is tripping all over itself as it tries to accelerate (should hold the shift) but instead also has to cope with 9 gears and is shifting as its just getting into the power band and interrupting the preocess / perfromance.

2 Questions since I give up ...

- Is MB North America an escalation resource?
- Do any of the after market Engine / Transmission Tuners fix this?

End of the road...
Thanks.

superswiss

Is your wife's S Class an S63, too, or a regular S Class? The S63 and regular S Class don't have the same transmission. Biggest difference is the regular S Class has a torque converter, whereas the S63 uses a wet clutch. The latter is much more responsive, but also inherently clunkier, because there is no fluid coupling that absorbs jolts in the drivetrain. AMGs are meant to have a much more direct feel and a more immediate response, so if you are not smooth on the throttle the car will let you know due to the solid connection between the transmission and the engine.

From your description I can't tell if there's something wrong with your transmission, or if it's your driving style. But any movement in the throttle pedal will translate to a fairly immediate response. So porpoising could be you not keeping your foot steady on the pedal. Especially from a stop, if you are hesitating you can get into a rocking motion. Anybody who has ever driven a manual transmission car knows this feeling. Car starts rocking, then your foot starts moving and the rocking motion builds up until you let go of the throttle pedal to calm things down. This can happen with the MCT transmission in the AMGs as well, because just like a manual transmission there's a sold connection once the clutch is engaged, and you need to roll into the throttle, and don't hesitate until the clutch is fully engaged, otherwise it gets jerky as the transmission doesn't know what you want.

Don't know if you have any experience driving cars with manual transmissions, but you have to have the same mindset when driving this transmission. It behaves more like a manual transmission than an automatic transmission. It's also more rewarding when driving it in manual mode.

GregN

Superwiss-

Really appreciate the reply.

Here are responses:

Wife's car is S560 (Non AMG). Understand clutch is different (knew it wasn't a speedshift but didn't know fundamentals were so different).

Anyway...still feels like the MB AMG Wet Clutch is not ready for prime time (sort of like Ferrari's F1 Transmission- their early attempts at paddle shifts for street cars in late 90's).
I have tried it all...feathering throttle to allow shifts to catch up to 9 speed transmissions, waiting for big gaps in traffic to pull out unto road in a cerebral way so Transmission hopefully obliges or when left with no choice, mashing the throttle to fit into traffic spacing. And I have these transmission misfires in all instances. Even when just driving leisurely...come to a stop...accelerate away in a docile manner only to have the transmission delay engaging or porpoise the start process. I am not confusing this with snappy, performance shifting...which I quite enjoy. I find I can lean into my wife's car transmission and get a better application of power and acceleration- linear. In the S63 it clunks / jerks its way to speed. Shifting before it builds initial torque (like at 2000rpm) or not catching and then catching and throwing you back.

I did get the Service Representative to admit that these cars have had this problem and pre-covid, MB was replacing these Transmissions regularly (upon complaint) but post-covid have shut this down and only do updates, nothing more.

My son has the AMG C43 and his transmission was rough shifting to begin (in a similar way) but software updates have fixed the issue and I can attest having driven his car numerous times.

I know it seems like its the driver but I'm convinced it is faulty...I think its fixable and hope I can find someone at MB that can dial it in.

I will also focus on "rolling into" throttle commands but have already tried this...And agree...Manual is glorious but I just cant drive that way most of the time unfortunately.

Thanks again Superwiss- appreciate your time and advice.

superswiss

So just to throw another twist, your son's C43 has a torque converter, but the programming in the C43 has garnered many complaints. It seems AMG tried to make it feel more like it has a clutch, but the result is less than satisfying. I'm assuming you bought your S63 used. If so, then its transmission adaptation has learned the driving style from the previous owner and you may wanna have it reset, so it starts over learning yours.

Yes, a software update may improve things. I've gotten a couple for my 2019 C63S coupe and it has fixed some of the rough edges that it had initially. But also, the adaptation is not to underestimate. When I first got my car, it always downshifted all the way to first gear when I came to a stop. This was very jerky, but after a few thousand miles of driving, it suddenly stopped doing that and now only downshifts to 2nd until I have come to a full stop and only then does it downshift to first. If I'm doing a rolling stop (California stop) it stays in 2nd. This has made things much smoother.

I drive about 90% in manual mode. Always in manual mode when I need things to be responsive. I never rely on the automatic mode to know what my next move is. The automatic modes are not bad, but they simply can't read my mind. I'm always in manual mode on the highway, unless I'm just cruising along with DISTRONIC engaged or stuck in traffic. I have my transmission mode set to M for the Individual mode and I activate it the moment I hit up an onramp. Basically have the individual mode setup like S+, but with the suspension in S for a good balance between comfort and handling and the transmission in M. As opposed to the S63 I also have Race mode above S+, which I use when I hit up the canyons.

Around town I mostly use C and yes it upshifts quite early which can be jolty if you are on the throttle a bit much. It's trying to be somewhat fuel efficient. The AMG V8 is more powerful and more thirsty so to have better fuel economy it does end up shifting up earlier than perhaps the S 560. Also keep in mind, a torque converter multiples the torque when the speed between input shaft and output shaft is different, so wheel torque is higher during a shift than with a clutch. If I need it to be a bit more responsive I switch to S. That makes it stay longer in the current gear before upshifting. Much more in line with when I would upshift. But if I really want it to be in tune with me then nothing beats manual mode.

I actually quite like this transmission and have experienced it in several other AMGs such as the E63 and GT63. One of the benefits it has over a dual clutch transmission is that at the core it's still a planetary gearbox like a regular automatic which means it can randomly select any gear ratio. Dual clutch transmissions are only good when they can shift sequentially and correctly predicted the next gear. AMG takes advantage of this and if you pay attention to the current gear you will notice that it frequently skips gears altogether. Like downshifting 2 gears at a time when slowing down instead of going through each gear, but this results in higher engine braking than you might have expected. The regular Mercedes don't do that. They are meant to be driven in a more relaxed manner.

FWIW, I never quite made sense of the S63. I feel many people expect S Class comfort just with more horsepower, but that's not what the S63 is. To me it's a bit of a paradox. Consider that BMW doesn't make an M7 and Audi doesn't make an RS8.

PeterUbers

Been there.


https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-mct-e63s.html


https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ispreloading=1

GregN

Lol on the C43...thought it was the same since I'm hearing of that Transmission having similar problems to mine.

I have already had a software reset, update and re-programming of shift points...I think it made it worse since it feels like it is shifting way too fast now...starts shifting at like 1800-2000 just as acceleration is grabbing and building...

I like your set up...Manual dominant...not practical for me...multi tasking work stuff when driving.

I find multi gear downshifts very jolty...definitely don't feel the benefit. I have a 2009 Maserati Quattroporte (Many Ferrari components and design features) with a ZF Transmission. When I want to spin the wheels or quickly accelerate...I mash the throttle and everything happens aggressively, predictably and in a linear way. When I'm just waking up on my morning commute or in a laid back mood...I gradually apply throttle and the car responds in a familiar, predictable and subdues / relaxed way. Simple yet effective and perfectly acceptable for a performance sedan.

I would argue its not so much about connecting with a 2 ton vehicle as it is a spirited and sporty / throw you back experience. I would also argue it is absolutely about connecting with AMG's high-performance line up...AMG C, AMG E (less so) or any of the true AMG coupes or sedans.

Your FWIW is thoughtful and accurate in that I would argue the S63 is trying to be a 2 things which is not possible (high performance and luxury)...You really cant be both. The closest you can get is a high powered / straight line / throw you back version that is more luxury but can whisk you away when called upon...that's fun stuff but nothing more than that. Sort of a refined American Muscle Car if you will.

Having said all this...I really adore the car...wish we could smooth out the edges.

GregN

THANK YOU Peter.

Sometimes its lag...sometimes its clunky...sometimes its a bucking bronco. What should be a great car is just a good car. Looks like Tuners dont fix this.
Any advice for dealing with MB USA? Looks like you need to kick 'em to listen? Hope that's not the case.

Thanks again.

superswiss

Yeah your Maserati is from a different time. A lot changed in 10 years. Back then nobody really gave a flying fart about fuel economy and emissions, so 5, 6 gears is all that was needed. Now we have 8, 9 and 10 gear transmissions and the engines are practically idling near 1000 rpm in the highest gear when just driving normally and to get a response these things have to drop 5 gears before anything happens. At least with the 9-speed, the first 6 gears have proper ratios for proper driving, so if you stay out of 7, 8 and 9 overdrive gears things move along as they should, however unless you shift manually it will shift up to those gears to meet today's regulations. I'm glad I could still buy a brand new V8 AMG in 2019. Ain't gonna be like that for much longer.

borek40404

Well BMW does make B7 Alpina and Audi makes S8 both could compare to S63 performance wise. 😉

W205C43PFL

Hmmm. That is a lot of cars with different transmission tuning being compared.