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Thank you. It's interesting that Sprinter PS pump fits into SL600. I'd definitely like them to confirm fitment because I don't have any pump in hands, so I can't even visually compare it. My original pump is still on the car and getting there is a royal pita. So I wanna make sure it 100% fits before I proceed further.
I never did this but am wondering if the tandem pump could have its plumbing changed to just recirculate a reduced amount of hydraulic fluid to and from the reservoir since that is what it does anyway with the ABC in place. Couldn't the feed and return lines just go to the fluid reservoir instead of out to non-existent valve blocks and shocks?
I thought about it. I read this ABC pump operates with high pressure. Not sure if reservoir can handle such pressure. The only way to check it is to hook the tandem pump to the reservoir.
Also I wonder what happens if we remove the ABC fuse? In that case will the ABC portion of the pump still pump oil or not? I wish I knew more about how this tandem pump actually works "under the hood"...
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
The pump is mechanical. There is no clutch, so pulling a fuse will do nothing. And pressure is only applied against resistance. If there is no resistance (such as what a strut would provide), then there is no pressure other than that caused by a restrictive path or friction inside the hose.
The pump is mechanical. There is no clutch, so pulling a fuse will do nothing. And pressure is only applied against resistance. If there is no resistance (such as what a strut would provide), then there is no pressure other than that caused by a restrictive path or friction inside the hose.
Thank you for clarification. So if there's no high pressure then hypothetically we could loop the ABC portion of the pump to the reservoir. I hope there is enough pressure so ABC fluid could flow back and forth while pump is always lubricated with oil.
PS: Gold Element Autoworks in chat confirmed that their Sprinter pump should fit SL600/SL65 AMG. It sounds promising.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
If you have ever changed the fluid using the rodeo method, then you will understand that the ABC is a loop-back operation already. As valves open and close within the valve blocks, pressure is increased and decreased.
If you have ever changed the fluid using the rodeo method, then you will understand that the ABC is a loop-back operation already. As valves open and close within the valve blocks, pressure is increased and decreased.
Thank you. So in other words there won't be unsafe pressure, right?
BTW why there is a separate cooling circuit for ABC fluid? Should we keep it as well if we keep the tandem pump?
Actually, removal of the ABC fuse on the driver side engine compartment, will deactivate ABC operation. The tandem pump is a two part pump that pressurizes two separate systems. When the fuse is removed, the pump will no longer pressurize one half of the pump. There is a sensor that reads the pressure of the system and acts as an on/off switch to the pump. That’s why you have to pressurize the reservoir up to a certain pressure to activate the pump. So it’s not just as simple as a clutch less always on pump. There is no pressure once you deactivate the ABC via fuse removal. Whatever lubricates the pump is residual pressure from a closed system. No actual measurable psi. So you can recirculate the line or leave it disconnected. Whatever is less messy.
If you want to replace the ABC pump with a power steering-only pump, that can be done as well. V8 cars are easy, just get a PS pump for any non-ABC V8 Mercedes, making sure it has the L shaped bracket on the front. V12 cars are more complicated, but it can be done. I'm not so sure that the Sprinter pump referenced earlier would work - I think that reservoir may be a problem. I converted my car using a V8 pump with the pulley and brackets for a G65/SL65 Black Series, along with a fabricated PS pressure line section (the V8 PS-only pump output is significantly further forward compared to the tandem pump). Also had to have a tube fabricated for the pump return; the V8 pump return won't work because it points straight forward into one of the intercooler coolant lines.
The fabrication of both the PS pressure line and the return tube was pretty simple. I made a template for the PS pressure tube using thin, easily bendable brake line and took that to a local performance shop to be reproduced with 3/8" stainless (if you don't have professional tube bending equipment, don't even bother trying to work with 3/8" stainless - you WILL kink it). Materials and labor was $150. For the return tube, it's just a straight piece of 16mm OD/11mm ID aluminum tubing, about 50mm long, with a slot for an o-ring near the bottom. I bought the tubing on Amazon and took it to a local machine shop and gave them all the specs, they charged me $20 to make two of them (might as well have a spare).
All total for my conversion was about $700. I've got pictures and part numbers, I'll try to put together a post documenting everything in more detail in the next few days.
Also - VVK Suspension had an R230 V12 PS-only pump kit listed on their website, but it looks like their website is down right now. Don't know what's up with that - hopefully they're still in business, as they are the only source for a front sway bar to fit V12 R230s (their coilover kits are top quality as well). Their V12 PS pump kit became available shortly after I did my conversion.
Actually, removal of the ABC fuse on the driver side engine compartment, will deactivate ABC operation. The tandem pump is a two part pump that pressurizes two separate systems. When the fuse is removed, the pump will no longer pressurize one half of the pump. There is a sensor that reads the pressure of the system and acts as an on/off switch to the pump. That’s why you have to pressurize the reservoir up to a certain pressure to activate the pump. So it’s not just as simple as a clutch less always on pump. There is no pressure once you deactivate the ABC via fuse removal. Whatever lubricates the pump is residual pressure from a closed system. No actual measurable psi. So you can recirculate the line or leave it disconnected. Whatever is less messy.
It's a much better approach to recirculate the ABC system, you shouldn't just leave the pressure line disconnected (plugged, obviously). If fluid isn't circulating, the static fluid in the pump will overheat and the pump will prematurely destroy itself.
Also - I've seen some posts from the past where a few people said they just disconnected both lines from the ABC pump, drained the ABC system, and let the ABC side of the pump run dry, but they didn't give any long term follow up. I had serious doubts that this was a long term solution, but tried this just to see how long the pump would last. It made it 350 miles before it started to significantly drag, causing the steering to start to feel sluggish/sticky. I didn't push it any further. It wasn't making any noise, but it was obvious the end wasn't too far far away.
If you want to replace the ABC pump with a power steering-only pump, that can be done as well. V8 cars are easy, just get a PS pump for any non-ABC V8 Mercedes, making sure it has the L shaped bracket on the front. V12 cars are more complicated, but it can be done. I'm not so sure that the Sprinter pump referenced earlier would work - I think that reservoir may be a problem. I converted my car using a V8 pump with the pulley and brackets for a G65/SL65 Black Series, along with a fabricated PS pressure line section (the V8 PS-only pump output is significantly further forward compared to the tandem pump). Also had to have a tube fabricated for the pump return; the V8 pump return won't work because it points straight forward into one of the intercooler coolant lines.
The fabrication of both the PS pressure line and the return tube was pretty simple. I made a template for the PS pressure tube using thin, easily bendable brake line and took that to a local performance shop to be reproduced with 3/8" stainless (if you don't have professional tube bending equipment, don't even bother trying to work with 3/8" stainless - you WILL kink it). Materials and labor was $150. For the return tube, it's just a straight piece of 16mm OD/11mm ID aluminum tubing, about 50mm long, with a slot for an o-ring near the bottom. I bought the tubing on Amazon and took it to a local machine shop and gave them all the specs, they charged me $20 to make two of them (might as well have a spare).
All total for my conversion was about $700. I've got pictures and part numbers, I'll try to put together a post documenting everything in more detail in the next few days.
Also - VVK Suspension had an R230 V12 PS-only pump kit listed on their website, but it looks like their website is down right now. Don't know what's up with that - hopefully they're still in business, as they are the only source for a front sway bar to fit V12 R230s (their coilover kits are top quality as well). Their V12 PS pump kit became available shortly after I did my conversion.
Note: To provide additional hose reach the original pressure hose needs the support bracket unbolted near rear of engine block. This allows the fitting to reach approximately 11cm further forward.
On SL models the hose bracket is hard to access behind exhaust shielding, and the hose can be completely replaced with part number 203.466.16.81.
I think to me it's better to see it than to read about it...
Also I'd like to know more about what it really means:
The sway bar will contact oil pan if mounts are collapsed.
I think the pump that Gold Element lists will probably work for S class and CL class V12 cars, since the setup for the intercooler coolant lines is slightly different for those cars, leaving more room in the ABC pump area. I'd contact him directly to see if he's actually put that pump on a V12 R230 before purchasing, because I'm 99% certain that it won't work without additional accommodation.
Note: To provide additional hose reach the original pressure hose needs the support bracket unbolted near rear of engine block. This allows the fitting to reach approximately 11cm further forward.
On SL models the hose bracket is hard to access behind exhaust shielding, and the hose can be completely replaced with part number 203.466.16.81.
On V12 R230s, the PS pressure line runs from the pump back to the rear upper corner of the engine block, then back forward to the steering rack. This is not an uncommon kind of thing, an extra-long loop coming out of a hydraulic pump is often done to help smooth out pressure pulsations before they hit the power-assisted gear. But accessing that connection point at the back of the engine block is for all intents and purposes impossible with the engine in place. You might be able to do it by lowering the engine/front subframe a bit, but it's still going to be difficult. They've apparently identified an alternat part number that can be used instead of this factory setup.
Also I'd like to know more about what it really means:
The sway bar will contact oil pan if mounts are collapsed.
I mean will it crack the oil pan?
Eventually, yes - it will either crack the pan or eventually wear a hole it it. An engine moves around in relation to the chassis. Normally only a few millimeters, but it does move constantly. The only hard contact between the engine and chassis should be the engine mounts.
On SL models the hose bracket is hard to access behind exhaust shielding, and the hose can be completely replaced with part number 203.466.16.81.
Interesting - that part number fits 2001-2006 C and CLK class cars, V6 engines. Pretty cheap, too - $102 from Mercedes of Covington, LA. (I've found this dealer to have some of the lowest parts prices you'll find anywhere, I order from them often). That's a much simpler option than what I did with my car. I'll make note of this and include it when I make a detailed thread about my setup.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by llcoolbenz
Actually, removal of the ABC fuse on the driver side engine compartment, will deactivate ABC operation. The tandem pump is a two part pump that pressurizes two separate systems. When the fuse is removed, the pump will no longer pressurize one half of the pump. There is a sensor that reads the pressure of the system and acts as an on/off switch to the pump. That’s why you have to pressurize the reservoir up to a certain pressure to activate the pump. So it’s not just as simple as a clutch less always on pump. There is no pressure once you deactivate the ABC via fuse removal. Whatever lubricates the pump is residual pressure from a closed system. No actual measurable psi. So you can recirculate the line or leave it disconnected. Whatever is less messy.
I was unaware of pressurizing the reservoir. How is that done? It can't be very high pressure because the dipstick is just pressed on, not screwed like the reservoir cap. If it was very high pressure, it would blow the dipstick out.
I was unaware of pressurizing the reservoir. How is that done? It can't be very high pressure because the dipstick is just pressed on, not screwed like the reservoir cap. If it was very high pressure, it would blow the dipstick out.
I think there may be some misunderstanding due to the fact that you often have to pressurize the ABC reservoir using compressed air to prime the pump after replacement. When dry, the ABC pump does not self-prime very well and often needs a bit of help. But you are correct, the ABC reservoir is not normally pressurized.
Not throw cold water on canines here but pretty much all the topics in the last page are very old news previously talked about in length
Using existing ABC pump, looping lines, fuses etc. has been archived but for users who are slightly less; shall we say educated the search tab is a great resource regardless of what region of the world we live.
Which loops back to what is also a very useful part of any MB discussion. Listing your location in your public info. A pump sourced in the good ol' USA will not be of use to someone in the UAE or Japan; making info requests utterly useless
Replacing the ABC with a quality coilover setup is the goal I'm not sure leaving any of the original system makes the best solution.
About leaving the ABC pump;
I was down with this until my son the Boeing Engineer convinced me it was a terrible idea.
I mean the parasitic power loss on the motor. Totally unecssary. I bought a Bosch ML55 PS pump.
Not a lot of R230 owners know that awful metallic growl the engine makes can be totally eliminated by removing the ABC pump
If you want to see why go to Youtube and find the retired MB tech who converted his own R230 and used a PS only pump
Interesting - that part number fits 2001-2006 C and CLK class cars, V6 engines. Pretty cheap, too - $102 from Mercedes of Covington, LA. (I've found this dealer to have some of the lowest parts prices you'll find anywhere, I order from them often). That's a much simpler option than what I did with my car. I'll make note of this and include it when I make a detailed thread about my setup.
I'll be waiting for your post!
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To me removing the whole ABC system would be a really large job. I'll be doing this alone in a rental place where you rent a lift hourly. So I'd like to divide it into steps while after completing each step I should be able to drive the car because I can't live my car there overnight or for a longer period.
So the first step would be this:
Draining the system, disconnecting the lines from the ABC struts and sealing it with something.
Removing all four ABC struts and replacing it with coilovers.
Looping the ABC pump. Prior to the first step I must have clear understanding how to do it. The return line is already there. I just need to find the right ABC pressure line and figure out how to securely hook it to an ABC fluid tank.
Fixing the ABC related warning on the instrument cluster.
Hopefully I'll be able to drive my SL then. I know coilovers may need to be adjusted but including pre-load and ride height but anyway I will be able to drive it.
Then the next step would include these items:
Removing the ABC lines, accumulators and ABC radiator.
Replacing the tandem pump with either VVK or the pump sold by the Golden Element guy. Prior to this step I need to figure out which PS pump is better and I need to obtain all necessary hoses and hardware for that PS pump.
PS: I updated my info with location and cars. I know searching is the key, but after watching few dozens of YT videos including all Kent's public videos (MercedesSource) I realized I don't have a clear understanding of how to perform such conversion on R230 SL65. All of those videos included either SL500 or SL55 AMG. Now it's still not clear but I've got few steps closer.
Anyway now I need to research the nearby sway bar thread since some people including Kent from Mercedes Source and Adam from ND_72 are totally fine driving without sway bars...
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
VVK sells the sway bars only and the sway bars with struts. They are in Stuart, so may be worth making a trip to see them. I had gotten a kit and never installed it. I finally sold it because the installation is not insignificant and decided a working ABC was the way to go for me. This was when they first introduced their product and had no accompanying instructions yet. I do know they said you had to drop the rear end to remove the ABC lines to install the rear sway bar.
When it's said that you have to "drop" the front and rear subframes to install sway bars, what that means is that you have to detach them from the car enough to allow them to be lowered a few inches. You don't have to completely remove them from the car. Still not a small job, but not nearly as big/complex as you may have thought.
Folks, I'm sorry for this dumb question, but will coilovers made for SL500 or SL55 fit V12 cars? I see some brands explicitly say their coilovers will fit all SL model including V12 cars (SL600 and SL65) and others only say their products are for SL55 only.
For example, BC coilovers only say it will fit SL55. I see Kent from Mercedessource installed Hiro coilovers that don't even bother to tell which SL model they fit. Also KW only list SL500 as the target model for their V3 coilovers.
Key word is “fit”.
All the chassis are the same therefore yes regardless of the engine a coilover set would “fit”
However a V12 would need coilovers specifically designed for the weight of V12 and; the performance level of a TT or 55K would definitely demand a higher level of spring load and shock valving rates not wanted or needed in a base R230 NA 5L car.
A better question is; Should I buy a coilover set tailored to my own car or use a set that is generic in application ?
Answer is up to your level of driving experience, overall mechanical conditions and $$’s spent.
You can get nothing that rides better or a ride better than nothing. Choose your poison wisely
Key word is “fit”.
All the chassis are the same therefore yes regardless of the engine a coilover set would “fit”
However a V12 would need coilovers specifically designed for the weight of V12 and; the performance level of a TT or 55K would definitely demand a higher level of spring load and shock valving rates not wanted or needed in a base R230 NA 5L car.
A better question is; Should I buy a coilover set tailored to my own car or use a set that is generic in application ?
Answer is up to your level of driving experience, overall mechanical conditions and $$’s spent.
You can get nothing that rides better or a ride better than nothing. Choose your poison wisely
Thank you! I hope I can find an appropriate solution later this year...
Actually, removal of the ABC fuse on the driver side engine compartment, will deactivate ABC operation. The tandem pump is a two part pump that pressurizes two separate systems. When the fuse is removed, the pump will no longer pressurize one half of the pump. There is a sensor that reads the pressure of the system and acts as an on/off switch to the pump. That’s why you have to pressurize the reservoir up to a certain pressure to activate the pump. So it’s not just as simple as a clutch less always on pump. There is no pressure once you deactivate the ABC via fuse removal. Whatever lubricates the pump is residual pressure from a closed system. No actual measurable psi. So you can recirculate the line or leave it disconnected. Whatever is less messy.
In Ontario, Canada -
I’m about to start coilover conversion tomorrow! Couple of questions for everyone here -
1. Do you need to loop ABC pump if you plug the lines?
2. I’m thinking of converting to power steering pump only, but I’ll see how well I do with the conversion (Using Hiro Performance Coilovers) so here is the question, Can I drive the car a hundred yards without capping the quick connects?
3. For working without a lift, are people jacking up one wheel at a time or is it best to jack up one side, or the entire back/front?
11-30-2023, 08:21 AM
