c2jones

Yes, this has been all duly noted previously. One car is a true supercar with lightweight advanced composites (carbon fiber), paddleshifters and fixed roof construction while the other is a heavy, automatic, luxury GT cruiser, with yes, features like a power hardtop convertible, etc. These cars are not in competition with one another. Their target market is entirely different. Also mentioned was the collectors factor. ZR1 will have a huge novelty advantage. And Barrett Jackson will confirm that Corvette is king of the collectibles.

SL2003driver

I think its just cool that a english teacher can afford a 2005 E class MB

c2jones

You copied the whole posting to say this? Glad you think its cool. It goes to show you that what one affords has little to do with their educational merit, doesn't it? You prove that.

DannyM383

this thread is too funny its apples and oranges....corvette vs sl65, the price difference is almost 100K....the class difference as in if you were going to a nice restraunt is a nonfactor as the SL wins hands down....and the wow factor as if you were at a nightclub is hands down in favor of the SL.....the corvette is faster in a straight line who cares, can you massage your butt doing 150 in a corvette? Can you drop the hardtop in 15 seconds on a corvette? Can you have beautiful leather and a nice sound system without plastic bits in a corvette? Exactly the SL cost more for a reason, they're in the same class 0-60 wise but thats where the comparison ends. I really can't believe the corvette is in the $100K range now its almost laughable.

c2jones

This shows how primitive and out of touch you are. The days of Corvettes just being straightline cars have been over for several years now. Your perceptions are extremely dated and reveal your mindset. There is not a roadcourse in the world that ZR1 would not be more than a match for SL65 - anywhere, anytime.

As far as massaging one's butt at 150 MPH. Ah, this takes the cake. If this is a priority to you, then you truly don't know what a supercar is and you'll never have a clue there. If the Corvette guys could read this one, they would see MB people like you as pampered fools, not serious performance enthusiasts. What a joke.

itswindee

Agree completely c2jones

Just for kicks, I had my uncle who owns a Z06 and my husband who owns a Viper skim through this thread - they both laughed their a$%'s off

SL2003driver

Very true, we hire guys like you for your e merit

iguess

So who cares if the ZR1 is faster in a straight? Well what do you care about then? I know the MAJORITY of us wouldnt be able to go 170mph around a ring and live. The BOTTOM LINE is, you're getting a 100K car than can out perform supercars that cost way more (even the "cheap" f430, or the gallardo are both 2.5x's the price) . I would definitely recommend the ZR1 if you're looking for a performance car. I still stick by my original recommendation, get the ZR1 for the days you want to go fast, and a new 09SL550 for the days you want to roll around in something more refined. You can have your cake and eat it too.

DannyM383

the nissan gt-r can run circles around a murcielago or a f430 or an sl65 but you know what i guarantee you that 99.99% of owners will not even exceed 150 in their cars. I've had an SL55 for over a year now and while I consider myself a performance guy I'm not too crazy about killing myself. I enjoy the acceleration of my car as much as anyone but does that mean I'd trade my SL55 for a nissan Gt-r or a corvette z06? Absolutely not because the mercedes or ferrari possess something the Gt-R and Z06 will never have its called class. Im not gonna argue this point any further over a forum its ridiculous buy the new vette or GT-R and go 185 mph all day long for all i care. I never said theres anything wrong with a vette its just that I said I'll take my mercedes and cruise and take the front spot in the valet at the best restaraunt Id like to see a vette or Gt-R do that!

chilledbenz

As a Vette fanatic I can't read these posts and not stick up for my home team. My first thought is..a SL65? Your kidding right? The closest competition from Benz would be the SLR, not in price but in performance. Then I would like to add that for all those that feel the Vette is another cookie cutter car from G.M. keep in mind that the Vette is built in a specific plant in Bowling Green Kentucky and only has the Cadillac XLR (sister car) being built in the same plant. In the case of the ZR1 the engine is hand built by a single person just as the AMG engine is. But, all that doesn't matter if your blinded by the big star on the front of your car, no matter what someone says your going to have your opinions which is fine, this is a free country after all.

More on the original topic of this thread, might you consider a Z06 instead of a ZR1? Honestly the Z06 is the better all around car, the ZR1 will be one mighty beast when unleashed but its going to go fast in straight lines, the Z06 will most likely carve circles around it and the rest of the competition.

By the way..if your looking for an interesting read there was an article in Car and Driver last year about a Vette test mule car that they took on an off road trip to the Yukon. The car had been a test mule for quite some time, had different engine and drive train setups and yet still made it through an off road trip (many of the roads were nothing more than gravel and sometimes mud roads) without a hiccup. Try that in your SL ha ha.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...vorces_feature

SL2003driver

+10 I think what we have in this discussion is guys that are looking at pure bang for the buck versus class for the buck that includes performance. I would never consider a ZO6 or a ZR1 for the reasons you have mentioned.

SL2003driver

Based on what you value in a performance vehicle you need to drop the Vette and go with the new nissan GTR. looks like it will run circles around the vette for the same bucks.

Germancar1

Apparently you haven't been reading and/or paying attention to the discussion here. For what Car and Driver likes the Corvette for it is deserving of their award. Performance wasn't in question here. Oh the art of paying attention.


M

c2jones

My goodness. This must be MB fanatics night at the zoo or something. (For those just tuning in, they're not all like this.) This thread pertains to SL65 and the ZR1 Corvette. (They are really not in the same buyer category, but somehow we're off in a tangent about quality and value.) As far as value, the ZR1 has no equals (including GT-R). ZR1 exhibits true supercar performance at any price, especially the pricing its offered at. It also will be a solid car with exceptional, advanced features as discussed previously here.

Being that some here keep citing GT-R (as their handy pocket tool to counter the Corvette), let's keep things in proper perspective. The GT-R will be a great budget rocket, but its no ZR1, of course. It was not targeted for that. GT-R is hoping to stay near Z06 - it has no illusions of staying par with ZR1. GT-R has 480-hp and is a hefty 3858 pounds. This car weighs 696 pounds more than a Corvette Z06 - that's 22% more! Z06 has a potent 505 horses and its considerably lighter than GT-R. Translation: GT-R will have its hands full with Z06.

But the 100 horsepower per liter of ZR1? Please. ZR1 will produce greater than 620 horsepower (some say close to 635) and more than 600 full pound-feet of torque. It'll produce more power than the Corvette C6.R that races at the 24 Hours of Le Mans with championships aplenty. ZR1 is well above the legs of GT-R. (Sorry, I know some of you wanted to undermine ZR1 further with the bang for the buck scenario of GT-R.)

Finally, ZR1 is devastatingly fast, but it's also intended to be civilized. It's available with a head-up instrument display, power-adjustable seats, high-end audio and Delphi's smooth-riding MagneRide suspension dampers. It's no raw-boned racer. 15-inch Brembo carbon-ceramic rotors fitted as standard to the ZR1's rear wheels are the brakes originally designed for the front of Ferrari's 650-hp Enzo supercar. In the front of the ZR1, you'll find even larger 15.5-inch carbon-ceramic units. (Standard equipment on the 1,000-hp Bugatti Veyron.)

Too many of you are grossly underestimating the ZR1. You have much to learn. Let's see these cars for their unique purposes for which they were built. Few production cars could dream of matching this car's track numbers, and the few that may are priced many times into the stratosphere.

c2jones

Very solid point here. Fitting article.

(BTW, off-topic, you have one of the sharper R Series I've seen.)

c2jones

Being tops with C&D does not conclude that they favor performance over quality. They would affirm that they looked at everything altogether and made overall selections.

c2jones

Did I say feeding time at the zoo or what? Do you have any idea how trivial and pompous you present with such antics? And many of Corvettes have their share of valet parking "front spots." (This is getting as outlandish as it gets. Shame, this was a very productive and worthy discussion.)

Germancar1

Guy you're confused. Severly. You're the on here talking about a Corvette on a MB board trying to draft some lame argument about how the Corvette compares when it doesn't. Neither the Corvette or a Mercedes compares to each other at what they do best. Again, what is the point of this ridiculous discussion?


Thank you, likewise I find yours to be nothing more than an excuse making session for GM. Again, what is the point of this ridiculous discussion?


You just don't get it do you? A Porsche is not a luxury car, it is sports car that shames a Corvette in build quality. Please quit trying to act like the ZR-1 is going to be built oh so much better than a regular Corvette. I see no indcation (other than wrapping all that plastic in leather) that it will be. Like I said before, FORGET LUXURY CARS, THERE ARE OTHER SPORTS CARS THAT ARE BUILT BETTER THAN A CORVETTE. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Again, you're trying to give the Corvette a pass on having a plastic hell of an interior and lousy seats and other ill-build items because it can perform. That is the basis of your whole argument and it doesn't wash.



So what! A 100K car is a 100K car, don't care who makes it. When a company, any company asks a projected 100K for a car, they upgrade it all the way around, not just the performance. If the Corvette is so much a "Chevrolet" then why are you here? A Chevy is nothing compared to a Benz.


Wrong again. That was the joke with a Jaguar, they're reliabilty improved greatly under Ford. Aston-Martin doesn't bother itself with surveys so I don't know how "reliable" an Aston-Martin is now. Likewise for you long as a car is reliable it can built like a tin can and long as it peforms it doesn't have to feel like a 100K car, it can have the same slapshod built of a mere "Chevrolet".


Lost. What is the point of this statement?


May as well with the one-track, one-sided view you have of a 100K car.


No it doesn't. A Porsche Boxster has a better build and it is in similar price neighborhood.



Yep, many don't...and this means what exactly? Benz HAD issues with this, Corvette still does. Big Difference. Having an interior worth of the asking price is not an obsession, it is very fair expectation. Now overlooking this because of performance is fine, but don't come here and tell me that a Benz is in the same boat now regarding fit and finish because a Benz isn't. Not anymore. Any Benz that costs twice as much as a Corvette now has no such issues. Period.


Sure you don't because you're blinded by performance, which is not really a bad thing, but just as you say I'm to the extreme about fit and finish you're the same way about making excuses for things that wouldn't be tolerated in a Camry much less what supposed to be a world-class sports car. Some of the things I've noticed on Corvettes GM should be ashamed of.



You're right it is unfair, which is why I've never said it should. I said that it should have a better interior than cheaper GM cars. Is that not fair? Is that not reasonable? Everyone else does it, pay more for a more expensive model in their lineup you can feel it from the moment you sit down...why should GM's Corvette be any different? Not saying it should have a Benz/Audi level interior....NO it shouldn't but hell it should be better than a Malibu or CTS. Maybe the C7 will fix this because the C6 didn't.


There it is, a grand excuse. No the Corvette's build quality isn't "fine", it is "decent" or "ok", but fine it isn't. Only to a blind GM loyalist, and there are plenty. Considering all the performance it offers.....lets just forget that is still an anywhere from 50-100K car. You just don't get it, most GM loyalist don't. Speed, price, forget everything else.


Really, and how many of them do they buy? I was talking about European reviews of the Corvette, you know the production model you buy and drive home.


Your statement fell many posts ago. You're views on the Corvette are just as blind as any MB loyalist here. MB's build quality is better so you need not have commented in the first place then.


Sure you did, which is why I posted that post from another forum in which I ran down MB's problems in detail.

In the case of the SL and a Corvette I do. You're getting so much more car with the SL than you are a Corvette, which is really a one trick pony next to a SL. Sure the Corvette is more fun around a track and much cheaper, but you get what you pay for once you have to take in your surroundings. A plastic hell, no thanks. Reliability the SL can't brag about, but they aren't on the side of the road with their hoods up either. The current SL was a mess in the beginning, but lately that hasn't been the case at all.


I didn't say it didn't "cut it" with me, I said your excuses didn't. Furthermore we don't know what the performance will be like yet since no has driven it yet. It does cut it with most because they're willing to accept a 100K car with a 30K car build because of its performance.

True, but I'd spend my 100K on something slightly less extreme in performance that doesn't scream cheap anytime I'm not flogging it on a track. Don't get me wrong the ZR-1 will be the bargain of the decade, no doubt. I just don't delete the other aspects of what a 100K car should be because it is a capable performer.

It already has. The C6 has been winning awards and on various lists for years no. They've all overlooked the same issues you do, until it is compared with other cars with similar performance, then most reviewers come clean about the Corvette's build/quality problems. But yeah they gloss over it like you do, which I don't have a really big problem with, it is the comparision to a Benz in this regard that is downright silly.

Nope we don't, probably never will. Why? Because one company has shown great strides in fixing their problems, and the other has decided to wrap everything in leather for 2008. That isn't progress in the least.


Again, I don't why you're not getting this. Forget Mercedes-Benz. Other sports cars for the same money are built better. Does the name Porsche ring a bell. A base Boxster is simply built better. Nissan's GT-R looks to be also and it doesn't cost twice as much in fact it will cost less than the ZR-1. I want to see the ZR-1 smoke it though, but thats another story.

Sure we do. A Benz isn't a "bang for the buck" type of car as it relates to performance. A Corvette is THE bang for the buck car, or it at least frames the argument.

Not sure about that either. For 100K you won't be able to top its performance, and if you can stand the Kmart interior then you're good to go.

We do agree, which is why I don't understand why you're still going on about this. You're going to see the Corvette's best attributes and I'm going to see the Benz's and never shall the 2 meet.


M

Germancar1

Hilarious. Now you have to own a GM car to know they aren't up to par. Been in and driven plenty of GM cars, know many more that own them. Outside of the new Malibu, CTS, G8 and some others, they still suck. A Buick LaCrosse is a huge embarrasment. Every single Saturn up till last/this year were utter garbage. Panel gaps a mile wide and orange peel like you wouldn't believe. You've got to be kidding me to try to imply that one has to own one to gauge their quality.


The Pontiac Grand Prix is a mess of plastic and playscool looking buttons and just a mess in general. Cheap doesn't begin to describe it.

Don't be sorry, just be better informed next time. Now tell me exactly how the interior of the ZR-1 is going to be different from the regular Corvettes? Please do tell. Are they doing more than just wrapping the dash in leather or adding some neat logos? What is grossly inaccurate is your knowledge on the subject.


Yep performance wise, other than that it will be the same old Vette story.

M

Germancar1

Guy you're nuts if you think that peformance for the dollar doesn't put the Corvetter over with C&D, otherwise it wouldn't even get mentioned. They're the ones that have complained about its fit and finish for years even going so far as to say it had "junky construction". Performance and price is what gets the Corvette over, not anything about quality.

M

Germancar1

Likewise do you see how much of a simpleton you make Corvette lovers out to be constantly making excuses for things that wouldn't be tolerated in a car half the price of a Corvette while touting this "pedal to the metal" mentality about "bang for the buck". It goes both ways.

M

ItalianStallion

I find it funny how some of you have probably never even driven the cars (or similiar cars) you are comparing. I have had very extensive experience with the SL55, 997TT, and Corvette Z06. I know these cars like the back of my hand.

The SL55 was lemon-lawed and had a huge list of problems which MB couldn't fix. The 997TT had a rattle in the door. The Z06, after 2500 abusive miles doesn't have one issue.

The Z06's suspension is more livable than the 997TT. The SL55 is very comparable in drivability, possibly a bit softer. Carving up corners, the Vette takes the SL apart. SL's and 911's interiors were both nicer. The 911 had very firm seats though and the Vette's seats are more comfortable for daily driving. I prefer the nav unit on the Vette over the SL and 911. In speed, its no contest. I'd compare the Z06 speed with the SL65. The 997TT is very very fast as well, but the Z06 is faster.

The SL65 is really the same car as the SL55, just faster in straightline. The ZR1 has a much more civilized suspension, better breaks, more hp, and better looks than the Z06. So, take this comparison as just my honest oppinion.

My choices are Z06 over used SL65.
997TT over Z06.
ZR1 over all of the above.

Also, keep in mind I am a young guy and love the attention and just the feeling of rolling around like a complete badass. If I was ready for the retirement center, I'd maybe go for an SL600 and Renntech it.

I love MB and always will, just the ZR1 is an exotic-slayer and the SL65 is a top of the line luxury GT with a monster engine.

SL2003driver

Congrats on your new ZO6, kwne a guy at the gym that had one and loved it. said he had to put tires on it every 5k miles. Question? you said you like the attention that the ZO6 gives, do you find many people that can tell the difference between a ZO6 and a regular vette? I know its the same with the SL most don't know the diff between the SL500 and SL65.

ItalianStallion

Tires...I'm not sure. From what I've been told, every 7k miles you should switch them.

Most people don't know the different between the Z06 and regular C6 just because they're not enthusiasts. But anybody who has any idea about these cars instantly recognizes it and will talk to me about it at a redlight or gas station. Lots of girls can see the difference too, like they'll say they love how wide it is and how low the car sits lol. When I went to look at 'Vettes, they had a black C6 and black Z06 sitting right next to eachother and since then, I couldn't ever go back to the C6 lol.

jmf003

Good comments, Stallion, except for that one about the "retirement center." My kids kind of think I'm ancient at age 49 but I still feel young and spunky.