novabenz

Not speaking for other SL55 owners, but when people see the silver "V8Kompressor" badge gleaming on the side of my black love missle, they know this is no ordinary SL!

ItalianStallion

No offense my man I loved the SL55 and with the top down and exhaust growling, you feel like a King.

speed6

Alot of talk but it is still comparing apples to oranges. One car isn't even a convertible. It doesn't matter if the ZR1 is $10,000 and made of gold, if I want a convertible then it is not an option at any price. Maybe we should start comparing the SL65 to a Chevy Tahoe.

By the way, who buys an SL if they don't want a convertible? I would think you would buy a different MB model.

c2jones

Besides a dose of ration while you label others confused, you need to open up your definitions to a broader range. In overall value, per the participant, the two could compare. That's all up to the individual. What is a reasonable dollar spent to one may be totally unreasonable to another. For every MB owner that regards Corvettes as cheap and sub-standard, there are just as many Corvette owners that regard MB owners as pathetically ego-needy, vanity obsessed, look-at-me complex lost souls that overpay for their cars simply because it helps their otherwise frail self-esteem get the desperate attention it seems to require, in spite of the fact that MB reliability has been simply atrocious at any price, but especially for the heavy prices one is paying. As you admit, MB has stuck it to their consumers fully knowing that their buying types (again, which many label as woefully vain) will overpay for their cars in spite of the myriads of mechanical mishaps. Any idea what this says about a MB consumer to others? They seem so needy of the prestige and image factor that they ignore, deny and even make excuses for atrocious reliability and service repair nightmares. There is nothing redeeming about this. You assume that because a car is wrapped in plush leather that the quality comparison ends there - it simply doesn't, sir.

Agreed on the former, as for the latter, you became obsessive about heralding your reaching build quality issue in the face of your own acknowledgment of the excessive reliability issues. You became adamant about differentiating the two as if reliability somehow did not matter when one considers overall build quality. I see this as just as "lame" as you state of others and told you so. My statements stand. If you find no point in the discussion, then why are you here defending such a reaching (if not ludicrous) position? No one forces your hand here, sir. Participation is always voluntary.

Nope. I'm not trying to give it a pass whatsoever. I'm saying that it needs no pass, sir. One gets a whole hell of a lot of car for that price in every regard, not just performance, but especially performance. Its built as a supercar, not a luxury car. So it surely passes that test hands down. It also has great advanced features which GM pioneered and mastered and are only now being copied by the Germans. I have detailed all this previously. Besides a weak argument, you also suffer from reading comprehension and retention, respectfully. Furthermore, I'm not alone. ZR1 will receive many awards that SL65 will never see. You feel that the whole point of Corvette is strictly performance. This is not the case. Worse, you tolerate MB reliability (and some build issues too) simply because they wrap your vain psychology in plush interior appointments. Man is that weak.

Firstly, I never agreed that Corvette was built like a tin can or in the case of ZR1, will feel other than a $100K car. These are your private notions. GM is what it is and MB is what it is. (This just in, one, the latter, is a luxury car maker, though you would not always know it by their epidemic mechanical woes.) More is expected of MB than GM. You talk about my grasp of things. Whew! And you're the one focused about build quality being limited to fit and finish, ignoring mechanical mishaps. You're far worse the excuse maker, especially given the price consideration.

The Boxter is in no way a comparison for ZR1. To match ZR1, one spends at least twice the price for a Porsche. Let's keep apples with apples. There's a broader view of build quality than you propose. ZR1 has advanced features not close to being found in Boxter.

So, you're saying that MB is done with fit and finish issues? I'll keep note of this and kindly remind you each time this clearly becomes evident that this is far from the case, luxury car and all.

Now compare this to overpaying for unreliability just as long as it wraps you in leather euphoria. And I'm not forgetting anything. I'm just keeping it in perspective. I am not a GM loyalist. When I offer redeeming aspects about MB in other boards, some see me as a MB loyalist. The fact is, I am just striving to maintain balance and observe the whole picture (something I felt you were capable of given our detailed discussion), not getting overly enamored in a particular fancy with a car and dismiss everything else, in the case of MB, simply because of unchecked vanity.

You've heard of Girls Gone Wild. This thread should be titled MB Loyalists Gone Wild. It truly shows.

I see. We'll just set aside all those service issues, then. Plush leather interior is better with MB (a luxury car which should be expected) so therefore Corvettes are junk, even though they have had better service reliability. Just want to make sure that YOUR definition of overall build quality prevails. The vanity just needs that fix - like an addict. Okay, it will be our little secret. I promise not to tell.

ZR1, which is the premise here, has many advanced features that SL does not have. The term "better" then is only limited to one electing for a luxury GT cruiser over a true supercar. That's preference. No more. You call it plastic hell. Many call it space-age advanced composites and supreme supercar technology not easily matched anywhere, especially in value. And how do you know how many SL's have had their hoods up on the side of the road, or that it happens less than Corvette in general, or will be the case with ZR1 in particular? Pure speculation due to intoxicating personal loyalties. 65 costs twice as much and its service record to Corvette is nothing, if not disappointing, including compared to Corvette.

Oh, I see, and people aren't glossing over the many woes with MB, a luxury car gouging you with sticker prices for that luxury? You know better than that. You witness it yourself, and to some (although lesser) extent, you're part of the sugarcoating, tolerance movement as well. And again, our discussion differs as to what our definitions of overall build quality is, not who makes more luxurious interiors. Both makes have had fit and finish issues and you well know it. At least GM is not making you overpay for it and feel foolish for doing so, unless of course, you're part of MB Loyalists Gone Wild crowd.

The former should have never had such woeful service records in the first place. They're supposed to be a luxury car-maker offering better quality for all that piggish money. And Corvette (and much of GM) has vastly improved. Corvette, as evidenced by its service records, is bettering all the time. It is not redeeming to just keep uttering that "MB is getting better" when in fact, they should not have had that type of room for improvement in the first place. Atrocious.

Few cars anywhere will be able to match all what Corvettes offers, especially ZR1, all things considered. BMW is now adding GM technologies and calling them "high-tech," knowing that most German car fanatics will miss the true origins, and guys like you are just what they need to press that erroneous perception.

Ah, not so. I certainly see the best attributes of both, unlike you. I belong to MBCA and have had many MB's (and will have more), while never owning a Corvette, but am considering the list for ZR1. What I'm trying to illustrate with you is fair balance, something in short supply amongst any loyalist camp. I appreciate all makes for what they do; their design and innovation, their marketing agendum and directive. It all works for me. I could find redeeming aspects in most makes and do so without aimlessly (and emotionally, erroneously) bashing other makes to do it.

Just as in human character, when one says look at me, I'm better than you, you're junk and I should be regarded as superior to you, after all I paid more than you and that's why, this only reflects how needy the person is to validate themselves. They do this by chastising others to help make what few redeeming aspects about themselves seem more elevated. These types do the same with their cars, no different than immature kids do about their father or dog being tougher than the next kid's. Its useless juvenile tendencies that reveals nothing becoming of the person and only the needy validation of themselves through their per car maker. They use the car to define themselves.

This is not so much directed at you, just a blanket statement reflecting the personality type. If I could own dozens cars I would and perhaps will one day. I don't need to bash other cars to full appreciate my own. That's only for people with issues. We can all do better than that if we take a deeper look.

c2jones

No, YOU make Corvette owners out to be simpletons. The record is clear on that. Corvette owners don't see their desire for their cars as excuse making, or settling for less quality, etc., beyond what they regard as their best choice of car to suit their needs. They have this right. Its not all pedal to the metal - its much more and this only reveals how limited your scope is. You're drunk on the "cheapo" interior bit and you allow it to color your overall impression. That's not sound of any auto enthusiast. Corvette and ZR1 have many redeeming aspects that you're woefully overlooking because you cannot get past your personal grievances with what you deem worthy build quality, which is greatly debatable.

And as you're talking about tolerating and making excuses, especially in the same sentence as pricing, you further cement my point in that you do ALL of that and more regarding MB, which with its pricing, is simply inexcusable, nothing less.

itswindee

While I'm sure you're going to nit-pick and tell me that differences between the reg Vette, the Z06 & the ZR1 are minimal, you asked me this: "Now tell me exactly how the interior of the ZR-1 is going to be different from the regular Corvettes? Please do tell. Are they doing more than just wrapping the dash in leather or adding some neat logos?"

Believe me when I say that your arrogance is contagious...

Just to name a few, the ZR-1 interior will have the following appointments:
Interior Details
The ZR1's interior builds on the brand's dual-cockpit heritage, with high-quality materials, craftsmanship and functionality that support the premium-quality experience promised by the car's performance.

The ZR1's cabin differs from the Corvette and Corvette Z06 with the following:
* ZR1-logo sill plates (you mentioned this one - the "neat" logos)
* ZR1-logo headrest embroidery (again "neat" logos)
* Specific gauge cluster with "ZR1" logo ("neat" logo) on the tachometer and a 220-mph (370 km/h) readout on the speedometer (whoops, you forgot to mention this part)
* Boost gauge added to the instrument cluster and Head-Up Display (oops, you forgot this one too)
The "base" ZR1 (RPO 1LZ) comes with accoutrements based on the Z06. Lightweight seats and lightweight content (Slipped your mind, I'm sure) The uplevel interior package includes unique, power-adjustable and leather-trimmed sport seats (oh gheez, did you mention these?); custom, leather-wrapped interior available in four colors (you didn't include the additional color options) navigation system (you forgot this one), Bluetooth connectivity (forgot this one too, darn) and more.

You obviously don't like GM products. Fine, we all get that point. You are entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else is entitled to theirs. There is no comparison between the SL65 and the ZR1. The SL65 is a luxury convertible with fine appointments and the ZR1 is a true sportscar/racecar (throw in a roll cage & put on a fire-jacket) that also has fine appointments that IMO are not "junk or cheapo" looking. To say that all Vette interiors are the same is an informed statement made by you. The ZR1 will set itself apart from all other Vettes and all other GM cars for that matter.

If it's not to your liking, great then don't get one. I don't think GM will loose any sleep over it.

c2jones

You've at least implied similar ideas with MB. In that all the bad reports will just need to be backshelved and the user experience should rule the day. If one likes their experience, then get over all those bad reports because new and improved models are on their way, etc. Its all just "meaningless drivel because their cars are no longer relevant or related to the current crop in quality." How tolerant would you have been, honestly, of those not actually owning MB's contributing to the reports of their woes, especially the way you discount any unfavorable survey that brings such things to light? You place a premium on user experience and dismiss all else.

She has the full right to her perceptions every bit as much as you do yours. Listen to your way, your demeanor. Its your perceptions or else. Anything less is "a mess and cheap," irrespective of her user experiences and service records. Its only about what YOU deem is proper build quality, and limited to this. If her user experience is better with her Pontiac, then why should she be seen as amiss; because YOU regard the interior of her car as cheap and nothing else will do? If interior is deemed cheap, then nothing else matters to you.

You talk about how uninformed she is simply because her perception of quality is different from yours. Again, as long as the leather is plush and elegant, every other definition of quality is out the window for you. Because your view of leather appointments trails with GM, reliability and other definitions of quality have no meaning to you. But she's the one in the dark? You need much more balance.

Actually, it offers many modern features not found in most luxury cars and is only now being followed by the Germans. Advanced composites, Head-Up Display, Magnetic Shocks and a list of other features marveled far and wide. ZR1 will be a true collectible for good reason.

c2jones

Notice how the SL's folding roof has been replaced by a fixed carbonfibre assembly; removing the electric motors that operate the roof and the folding mechanism helps to save weight. Can anyone say ZR1?

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...enz-SL/231872/

The weight loss continues with carbon fiber body panels such as the hood, fenders and roof. Simultaneously, the entire chassis benefits from more rigidity as a result of the fixed roof as well as the removal of additional components and high strength chassis reinforcements (88 pounds worth) that comes with the folding roof of the SL 65 AMG. Other sprinkles of carbon fiber are found in a rear diffuser and boot lid spoiler which provides approximately 77 pounds of additional downforce.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080416....details-emerge

c32used

I'd say SL65 BS instead of the reguler SL65 I would take that over the ZR1

SL2003driver

I'd vote for the SL65. I've never been into vettes since the 63-67 model years. I've had the porsches, NSX, z's, rx7tt, mb's, lexus, old 396 chevelles and camaros but never been into the newer vettes. iknow they are great cars big bang for the buck but don't tug on my heart strings. jmho

novabenz

We've gone off into alot of different areas with the discussion in this thread.
It's obvious the two cars cannot be compared.
Each car has a different mission and purpose.
Unless you have the money of someone like Jay Leno, it is very unlikely that both cars would be in your garage at the same time.
That being said, and this being a Mercedes Benz forum - lets show some totally blind loyalty for the Mercedes Benz product.
Regardless of reliability, build quality, etc - its MERCEDES BENZ THAT RULES HERE!!!!
Trust me, no matter how much other car owners b*tch on their respective forums (especially the Corvette guys - see their posts on dead batteries) - they stay rabidly loyal.
I could purchase just about any other high priced car, but Mercedes Benz is it for me.

c2jones

Notice how SL65, a heavy luxury GT cruiser (which is really not looking to compete as a supercar whatsoever - its a power hardtop convertible), but does have big power to carry all that weight, is now looking to add SL65 into the supercar segment with its "Black Series," http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080416....details-emerge with weight reduction by mirroring techniques like carbon fiber components ALA the ZR1, as noted in my just previous posting.

So, we see techniques being duplicated (and bringing the price up even more) of this heavy luxury cruiser towards getting performance attributes akin to ZR1, but yet the same MB enthusiasts that chastise Corvette for having "cheap" construction and materials (beyond interiors), referring to fenders and overall body parts, face the irony in front of them now. Composites added to SL65 (Black Series) mirroring ZR1, acknowledging the remaining steel versus composites on SL to Corvette. Meaning more weight for SL, even in the Black Series. (The base SL65 weighs 1000LBS more than ZR1.)

Now, given Corvette interiors are the target of their critics here, let's try this on for size. One can add a Caravaggio interior (www.caravaggiocorvettes.com) to ZR1 up to SL65 levels which would of course elevate the total price, but still would be much less that the added pricing for SL65 Black Series which incorporates ZR1 type composite construction, towards the eventual supercar motive with lush interior appointments (Note: only MB elites deem this important with a supercar).

In the end then, all things now being equal, the ZR1 is still the better overall value, performance to pricing, and interior euphoria for those so needy of that. (Of course, the safety aspect would still favor MB.) The fit and finish element argument is really more exception to the rule and not limited to one make over another. The rest then is bragging rights and preference, vanity or brand loyalty, for both makes.

SL2003driver

God i hope you just got the last stupid *** word on this aint it stupid toargue on the internet thread. now go buy your vette and move to another forum

c2jones

Surely, it could not be YOU, of all people here, using the term stupid to describe others, right? You might be the poster child of this forum for that. You have nothing of substance to say. All garbage commentary from you. And you don't understand the direction and point to this interaction. You're better off sitting this kind of discussion out. Honestly.

SL2003driver

gfysda

metalica_23

Wow, that was a lot of dialog to get through to hear so few opinions.

I'm actually doing similar shopping, but I have even LESS of a clue what I want, if that's possible.

Cars I'm shopping:
list it, for a New ZR1
~'06 SL65
~'06 Bentley GT
New Maserati Granturismo (or Quattroporte)
New M6

These all fall roughly in the same price range. It would be a somewhat daily driver for me (not in the winter...). I'm indifferent to 2dr/4dr and I'm indifferent to drop top or not. I'm really looking for a car that's fun to drive and may turn a few heads. To be honest, my concern with the Corvette is that (not the ZR1) they're a dime a dozen on the road. Ironically enough, there was both a Granturismo and an SL65 parked outside my work this morning. And to be truthful, the Granturismo gets more looks. You just don't see many, and it definitely has a more "exotic" look.

Let the flames begin, but I'll sift through to get the additional opinions mixed in...(maybe I'm even missing a car that would fall into this bucket?)

c2jones

Yeah, anytime there is a "comparison" being made between cars that are not really in the same market category, opinions and preferences will take the floor (especially in this forum. ) and much is presented to support those preferences. For my part, I have striven to stay balanced and have only rallied to defend upon any given product (in this case ZR1) is given an unfair billing, which I feel I have demonstrated. But that's the beauty of an interactive forum. Let's hope there was insight to be had.

The fit and finish and overall build quality ended up taking front and stage, which should be of value to many.

Ironically, as I stated above, SL65 is actually dropping their top to match the advanced supercar technology of ZR1's ultra composites (carbon fiber panels) towards creeping up to the supercar market. The "Black Series," will be the top performing entry from MB, besides SLR, as a direct result of the composites versus the heavier (lower grade) steel used by MB. Of course, this new composite construction, will naturally add to the already hefty price of SL65.

Ah, you're gleaming for the attention too. Would have never guessed that from witnessing many in this forum... Sorry.

So are C-Class and 3 Series, but the prestige addicts won't mind that.

Seriously, as you've noted, this will NOT be the case with ZR1. It is a special car sure to be a strong collectible. One will witness as many if not more of all the makes you reference than with ZR1. If you want an "exotic look," ZR1 also fits this bill.

Not any real flame wars here. Just some diligently steadfastness to one's perspectives. One should see this as healthy.

I can offer you some further perspective, elaborating further on what one can read within this thread.

See accompanying posting...

c32used

ZR1 all the way unless you add the SL65 BS
Corvettes are a dime a dozen but just like the C6 ZO6 they are distinguishable between models...since the ZO6 GETS TONS OF RESPECT I CAN SEE THE ZR1 GETTING WAY MORE...

c2jones

NOTE: As duly noted previously, these cars are not really in the same category. One is a heavy GT cruiser while the other is an advanced supercar with modern composites and other supercar features. The real comparisons should be made between the SL65 Black Series, which is aimed closer to the supercar element, now with the composites of ZR1.

In this thread several critiques have been made by MB forum regulars that degrade Corvette build quality overall (including ZR1 and the new leather option); referencing its construction and dated engine, and fit and finish and finally, interior, as measures of how it could not compare to MB in general, and SL65 in particular.

On those unfair digs, allow a firm overall response (courtesy of some informed personal within the Corvette camps): We'll call this a quick study guide of sorts.

MB steel versus Corvette "plastics" and composites.

How many Benz supporters question Mercedes' use of cheaper steel in the frame where GM went with a far more expensive lightweight aluminum frame on the Z06 and ZR1? Check the spot prices of aluminum vs. steel for a guide to just raw material price differences. Look into the cost of carbon fiber and ask why it is that this material, which is standard on F1 and Le Mans cars, is not standard throughout MB's lineup which is by and large vastly more expensive than Corvette's.

Safety

The most important safety feature in a car is the vehicle’s dynamic ability to AVOID a crash in the first place. This is a function of its acceleration, braking and handling. Since in every single respect a Corvette model can meet or exceed the dynamic envelope of anything currently offered by MB for road use, that overwhelmingly addresses the most significant vehicle specific component of safety.

The second part of safety is the purely static ability to tolerate a crash when one is unavoidable. This aspect of crash analysis is the easiest for those whose comprehension of the subject is otherwise limited. The C5 Corvette benchmarked the Mercedes SL of the time for structural integrity. The hydroformed structure of the C5 was so strong that it not only handily exceeded the resonant frequency stiffness of the SL but actually had to be softened after initial crash testing showed that it was not deforming enough to absorb crash forces in side collisions.

Today, the C6 convertible requires no additional structural bracing in its convertible form and its soft top roof was designed to meet Federal standards for a rigid roof car EVEN THOUGH THE VEHICLE IS NOT REQUIRED TO BY LAW. GM was in effect given a loophole which they not only declined to take but met the SL’s engineering standard with a soft top. The C6 Corvette has been extensively crash tested with more than twice the number (45) of crash tests as the C5. The Corvette’s structure is designed such that the car can technically be driven with no body panels attached and still effectively meet Federal crash tests. Those who look at a Corvette’s body panels and question the vehicle’s strength only give voice to the depths of their ignorance.

Beyond that, NHTSA has not crash tested any late model Corvettes or Mercedes coupes or convertibles back through 2005 when the current model Corvette was introduced. Absent these independent empirical tests, speculation on the vehicles relative safety is exactly that. Both vehicles meet all Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) applicable at the time of construction and sale.

Post crash, both vehicles offer safety systems designed to immediately communicate the vehicle’s distress and summon help. So one is hard pressed to see what empirically measured material advantage or disadvantage there is for the two cars in question.

Brakes

How is it that the ZR1 has carbon ceramic brakes standard when only MB's hugely expensive sales experiment, the SLR, has them? Brakes on the ZR1 are shared with the FXX and Enzo where they are a $25,000 replacement part. 15-inch Brembo carbon-ceramic rotors fitted as standard to the ZR1's rear wheels are the brakes originally designed for the front of Ferrari's 650-hp Enzo supercar. In the front of the ZR1, you'll find even larger 15.5-inch carbon-ceramic units. (Standard equipment on the 1,000-hp Bugatti Veyron.)

Technology and drive character

ZR1 is certainly fast, but it's also intended to be civilized. It's available with a head-up instrument display, power-adjustable seats, high-end audio and Delphi's smooth-riding MagneRide suspension dampers. It's no raw-boned racer. Ferrari has effectively licensed the Corvette's run-flat tires as an option on the F430 and the Magnetic Suspension system for use on their flagship 599. (BMW and others are incorporating this as well.) What technology does Ferrari license from MB or even directly share with them at present? Since MB is deemed so superior, one would expect a laundry list. Short of the SLR, which will likely fail to defeat the ZR1, which roadgoing Mercedes can match the component specification of the ZR1?

Efficiency

Corvette suffers no gas-guzzler's tax.

Dated small block Chevrolet engine.

I'm always hearing how Ferrari and Porsche have the world-class technology that Corvette can only dream of. Some here cite how Corvette is using a dated pushrod engine as if Porsche had not been using their same V8 for just as long. And there's nothing new about 4 valve OHC engines. Fiat/Ferrari first went into production in 1914. Corvettes engines are tried and true. One notices few takers against their ALMS program.

Fit and finish - Interior

Both makes have their pros and cons here. One should expect more of a luxury brand. There is not enough differential to make a substantial distinction here. But for what its worth, the updated leather option package for Corvette is in very good company.

From MotorTrend Magazine:

All Corvettes get metal sill plates and classier looking new center-console trim, in either a carbon-fiber or metal-screen type finish, with brightwork around the shifter and cupholder. But to lure the Eurosnobs, there's a new Custom Leather Wrapped Interior package. Practically every surface you see or touch is swathed in supple leather, handstitched by the nice folks at Draexlmaier-the same ones treating the hides in Maybach, Mercedes, and up-level Cadillac cockpits. The seat inserts are perforated leather in either a light "Linen" or darker "Sienna" color. Pricing is expected to run $4,000-5,000, given the list of gear it includes. It'll be worth paying for, though, and will still leave plenty of savings when compared with any Euro-rocket that can touch the Corvette's performance.

From Draexlmaier, "Complete interiors by Dräxlmaier are featured in the BMW Z8, the Mercedes-Benz CLK, the CL Coupe, the SL, the Maybach and the Bugatti Veyron."

http://www.draexlmaier.de/lang_en/Pr.../interieur.htm

The upgraded interior is done by no less than the interior decorators (Draexlmaier) of the Veyron and Maybach. GM has spared virtually no reasonable expense and has sought out only the best in their respective fields to assemble and supply this car. Assertions to the contrary are factually incorrect.

So much for this Corvette leather package not adding up to MB. Its made by the same company!

Construction

The ZRI incorporates a costly aluminum frame and costlier carbon fiber panels (the paint on which is said to weigh more than the panels themselves). As an aside, those panels are essentially made by hand and take quite a bit of time each. Each ZR1 and Z06 engine is handbuilt.

Power

This really needs no comment. ZR1 has 100 horsepower per liter. ZR1 will produce greater than 620 horsepower (some say close to 635) and more than 600 full pound-feet of torque. It'll produce more power than the Corvette C6.R that races at the 24 Hours of Le Mans with championships aplenty. Its a supercar to the fullest extent. Enough said.

Novelty

By anyone's standards, the ZR1 will be a true collectible. Barrett Jackson automotive auctions already state the Corvette as king of the collectibles. Imagine the heightened level of ZR1.

Just trying to be fair here, and ensure you have the other side of the story, as it were. Much to consider. You can get your wow factor from many cars. You can even get some value and everyday drivability from more than one make in this process. You can have massive power and with racecar-like performance. But only you can decide which vehicle best suits all your needs best for you.

I try to be balanced and appreciate the innovation and direction of all makes for what they do. I love the automobile and can find redeeming qualities in multiple brands. I have owned many luxury brands and still do, but this will never shackle my mind from seeing the attributes of various makes of cars. For Corvette in general and Z06 and ZR1 in particular, these should be seen as the technical gems they truly are and applauded and offered the proper accolades they rightly deserve. Some of the Euro people are coming around; some will never get it. Sad but true.

Certainly, ZR1 will be a player on an international scale and one denying its ample presence does within one's own stupor. Recognition comes hard (perhaps recovering from the troubled past of Corvette?), but as respect is earned and not granted, Corvette will have its day in the sun and force that respect.

itswindee

Nice choices, you might want to look into a new Viper as well.

DannyM383

c2jones, you say people are buying mercedes to stroke their ego and their build quality is atrocius right....well then why the hell do you have an E500!!! Seriously what are you doing coming onto an MB board and saying the corvette is the better car, thats like going into fenway park and trying to convince the majority the yanks are better than the red sox...its not gonna happen, also the Nissan Gt-R is more bang for the buck than your vette but I didn't wanna burst your bubble. I never said the vette wasn't great, I just said stop comparing it to an SL65 its 2 different demographics of buyer

metalica_23

I originally did include the Viper (that's actually my favorite looking car of the bunch!). I've just heard person after person tell me that it's a phenomenal weekend car and a horrible daily driver...

I need the car to be slightly functional.

Ha, a SL65 BS in my future as mentioned elsewhere...I do OK for myself, but not "$200k+ OK".

As for the GT-R, let's just say Nissan has a bad history of putting out test cars that perform far better than the actual cars sold. There's already a lot of skepticism that one of the test cars is putting 480 to the wheels and that there's no way the real cars will be anywhere near that...

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/s...p-at-the-hubs/

metalica_23

Actually, I would offer up that anyone spending ~$100k+ on any type of performance car is full of malarkey if they say that they are not looking for attention. It's one thing to say you like the "thrill of the ride". But, to say that the look of the car and making heads turn is not part of why you spent that kind of loot is just lying to one's self.

If I wanted performance and not necessarily to turn heads, I could spend far less and get some type of $30k tuner car...

There's always the luxury end, etc., etc. but a big reason there's a market for these vehicles is stroking one's ego. I'm not afraid to admit it.

I'll need to see the ZR1 up close and personal. To me, cars like my E55 and the RS6, M5, etc. don't distinguish themselves enough from their lightweight brethren. Of course, this is why there's such a huge aftermarket for rims, body kits, etc. etc. I'll be curious to see how much is put into making the ZR1 standout from "regular" Vettes (and I tread lightly using the word "regular", as even base Vettes are great bang for the buck...)

c2jones

Another one with reading comprehension issues. I said that ones in denial of MB's quality issues (reliability), and worse, those ridiculing other makes while they make those excuses, are obviously people that need to have MB's for their own internal matters, irrespective of any details not supporting their tunnel-vision perspectives. This thread has made that VERY clear. You need to go back through this thread and read it again before you cast assessments.

MB may be improving in the reliability area (let's sure hope so), but there is no denying that they have had a real festival of getting higher prices and greater sales in spite of the fact that their reliability (and electrical gremlins) were through the roof in the recent past. MB has stuck to its consumers good and they must be laughing at the American vanity in the process. If you are somehow unaware of this, then its your head that's in the sand and this kind of thing is what fully supports my point.

And I bought the E500 new on Memorial Day of 05. This was during the dark days of MB quality. As a MBCA member, I have been made aware that MB is making strides of improvement. My contemplation now is whether I should get another MB (probably the refaced CLS or CL, and my wife wants the new SL). The lease is done soon. Pretty simple. Nothing hard to digest there.

Not better. Only comparable and not worthy of the unfair (often preposterous) critiquing its getting here by some select parties. I don't bash cars. I can appreciate them all. I have made this certainly clear. And, I did not just "come on" this board, I have been a member just over TWICE as long as you!

A who's better than whom sports reference. Should have expected that from someone like you. Precisely my point with many here - pure unsubstantiated, emotionalism running wild. I don't get into "better" trivialities. That's some of the regulars here doing that.

Oh please, burst my bubble... I can take it. Humorous. The GTR (as I fully detailed previously in this thread for those with reception capabilities) is not the proper match for ZR1. In the end, this will be clear. https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....7&postcount=89

As much as anyone here, I have fully stated that these cars are not in the same market target. If you somehow missed this, this only further, overwhelmingly, establishes my point with those like you. That said, as I have indicated, SL65 Black Series is looking to enter the supercar market and is now looking to share the advanced composites construction as ZR1 towards that aim. (It will still fall short of ZR1 performance numbers, though, anywhere, anytime. ZR1, believe it or not, is best compared to SLR in performance build, but the latter costs a half million dollars and is way off the mark in sales. So, price-wise, SL65 Black Series is a little better - it only costs a little over twice as much as ZR1. )

And, finally, given you are the one that cited getting your "butt massaged at 150" MPH... https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....8&postcount=80 ... are you REALLY looking to be taken seriously? If you only knew how you are perceived by others. Some substance would serve you better.

c2jones

Many people, even after going to RennTech or any other aftermarket tuner, adamantly abstain from placing any additional badging on their cars. Call them "sleepers" if you will. Many do truly enjoy the performance edge (or other characteristics of the given car) more than just turning heads. You just probably don't witness enough of them here as this forum is chock full of the other type. But they're out there. Its all matter of personal preference, nothing more, respectfully.

Including yourself, right? I'll give you this; your honesty is a rare commodity here. There might be something redeeming in this. Best of luck upon your search. How about Aston Martin DBS? Now there's a real looker for ya. You can tell everyone about the Bond movie that it showcases!