SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: Engine Quality/Reliability???
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Engine Quality/Reliability???
I know that this is a mercedes and that alone should answer my question. But How you experts here feel about the engine quality of the 55 AMG when it comes to reliability. I mean, when an engine (any engine) can pull out close to 500 horses, and has a turbocharger(s).... you gotta expect it to fall apart around 50k. Am I wrong with this or do I have a claim here? Thank You.
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Re: Engine Quality/Reliability???
Originally posted by Sammy7783
... you gotta expect it to fall apart around 50k. Am I wrong with this or do I have a claim here? Thank You.
... you gotta expect it to fall apart around 50k. Am I wrong with this or do I have a claim here? Thank You.
I drove a 500SEL and a 300hp 560SEL in Europe always to maximum speed whenever possible (used to consider 130mph "cruise control" speed
) and got rid off them at about 270,000 highway miles in good driving condition.That's on first engines with no work done other than regular service
The biggest issue I see driving in the US is the low speed limit, coupled with city traffic. The engine just idles most of the time and that could cause problems.
My 2 cents worth...
Wolfman
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Engines needing rebuilds at 50k miles is Ferrari territory and Mercedes should be much better than that. You can be sure there are SL55 engines as part of the test program which have covered hundreds of thousands of miles, or the equivalent bench testing. It will still pay to have the car serviced properly, use the best lubricants and let the car engine warm up fully before stressing it.
My maintenance concerns are more about the transmission handling all that torque and the complexity and cost in terms of both parts and labour of fixing electronic gremlins.
My maintenance concerns are more about the transmission handling all that torque and the complexity and cost in terms of both parts and labour of fixing electronic gremlins.
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From: Mijas Costa, Spain
SL500 Ex SL55, ML55, S430
BlueSL - I was in the local Ferrari dealer this weekend. You will be pleased to know they had a 3 year old 355 in part ex recently with 96,000 on the clock having had nothing more then regular servicing.
Given so few onwers (am I was guilty) do such milages it actually went back to Italy for analysis at the factory.
Given so few onwers (am I was guilty) do such milages it actually went back to Italy for analysis at the factory.
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1M, F550M, F550B, F40, S600, 365GTC, DBSx2, etc.
While I'm impressed with the 355 with that kind of mileage, there are tons of TRs, etc. running around with well over 150 on the clock. In fact, a gentleman I know recently sold his 456 with 122.
Personally I feel that the SL engine should hold up a good while longer than 50. My concern is much like BlueSL's - with all of the techno-gadgetry aboard, how will it fare when the inevitable power failure, etc. occur?
--Dan
Personally I feel that the SL engine should hold up a good while longer than 50. My concern is much like BlueSL's - with all of the techno-gadgetry aboard, how will it fare when the inevitable power failure, etc. occur?
--Dan
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96000 miles? In three years? I'm amazed! The guy who did that mileage must deserve a medal, his back and hearing must be completely shot. In fact, I've long suspected Ferrari don't bother painting all the digits on the 10000's mile dial because they will never see the light of day. 
Did you see the car? Would love to know what the state of the bodywork was because in that mileage, you are going to pick up stone chips and parking dings unless you can always leave it in a private space. The 355 is so wide that parking in a normal space is a non-starter.
Did you see the car? Would love to know what the state of the bodywork was because in that mileage, you are going to pick up stone chips and parking dings unless you can always leave it in a private space. The 355 is so wide that parking in a normal space is a non-starter.
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From: Mijas Costa, Spain
SL500 Ex SL55, ML55, S430
BlueSL - No did not see the car but like you I suspect it was not a minter!
From my 360 experience I also suspect the guy had no fillings in his teeth Mine felt like they were going to pop out whenever I had covered more than 100 spiritted miles!
From my 360 experience I also suspect the guy had no fillings in his teeth
Mine felt like they were going to pop out whenever I had covered more than 100 spiritted miles!
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From: Munich, Germany
Schrempps C 32 AMG
We will get our new SL 55 on friday so I think I can post here too
You can´t compare a Ferrari engine with a MB engine. If you switch on the ferrari engine and switch it off without reaching the operating temperature it harms the engine very much. Mostly it´s impossible then to turn on the engine again.
All the MB and AMG engines won´t have those probs. I am sure that the V8 won´t have any probs in the future. Every MB technician will tell you that the V8 engines won´t fall apart.
You can´t compare a Ferrari engine with a MB engine. If you switch on the ferrari engine and switch it off without reaching the operating temperature it harms the engine very much. Mostly it´s impossible then to turn on the engine again.
All the MB and AMG engines won´t have those probs. I am sure that the V8 won´t have any probs in the future. Every MB technician will tell you that the V8 engines won´t fall apart.
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It's also worthwhile remembering that compared to the V12, which is a very complex engine the V8 is a very simple one. The supercharger is also not that tricky on a big block engine. Mercedes has been building a number of "Kompressor" models for some time (many of them are not available in the US) and there are many smaller, higher rev. engines that are stressed much more than the V8 ever will.
Wolfman
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Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Re: Engine Quality/Reliability???
Originally posted by Sammy7783
I know that this is a mercedes and that alone should answer my question. But How you experts here feel about the engine quality of the 55 AMG when it comes to reliability. I mean, when an engine (any engine) can pull out close to 500 horses, and has a turbocharger(s).... you gotta expect it to fall apart around 50k. Am I wrong with this or do I have a claim here? Thank You.
I know that this is a mercedes and that alone should answer my question. But How you experts here feel about the engine quality of the 55 AMG when it comes to reliability. I mean, when an engine (any engine) can pull out close to 500 horses, and has a turbocharger(s).... you gotta expect it to fall apart around 50k. Am I wrong with this or do I have a claim here? Thank You.
But if you had your engine tuned by someone else than AMG, don't even bother.
Best Regards,
Ronald
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Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Originally posted by vraa
So if these AMG guys will last 187,500 miles or so.. that means the regular SL500 should last longer no?
So if these AMG guys will last 187,500 miles or so.. that means the regular SL500 should last longer no?
Regards,
Ronald
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'18 AMG GTR '16 BMW M3 - '05 Porsche Carrera S
Originally posted by Ronald
Why? All AMG cars are tested by the same standards as all non-AMG Mercedes vehicles. There's no difference. AMG just has to use way more high-performance parts to achieve 300.000 km with a Kompressor engine.
Regards,
Ronald
Why? All AMG cars are tested by the same standards as all non-AMG Mercedes vehicles. There's no difference. AMG just has to use way more high-performance parts to achieve 300.000 km with a Kompressor engine.
Regards,
Ronald
You mean that my E240 naturally aspirated engine which is made by mercedes not AMG should also last 300,000 KM's? I believe that also .. We have two S classes with over 280,000 km on the clock and they run like they could go another 100,000km without a problem. We had an E class that we put 450,000KM on the clock before selling - We had to re-build the engine a bit before the 300,000 mark because the car was driven way too hard and it overheated .. That car did about 400km a day.
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I think it's odd that the likely life of the engine is so good, yet anyone you try to sell the car to (re-sale or trade-in) will regard even 50k miles as "a lot". Resale values of cars have taken a real tumble over the last few years which suggests shorter working lives, over which the engine is unlikely, if properly maintained, to cause any problems.
There are other items in the SL which are more likely to put one, 10 or 15 years down the road, beyond economic repair, like the brakes and electronics.
Just as current secondhand buyers don't like V12s because of their perceived (real or imagined) complexity, so it may be that in 10 years time, the SL will not be favoured as a second-hand buy because the cost of diagnosing and replacing one of the control units (whose electronics will be antique by that time) will be a significant proportion of the residual value of the car, and if the roof mechanism jams and collides with the trunk lid? Forget it....
There are other items in the SL which are more likely to put one, 10 or 15 years down the road, beyond economic repair, like the brakes and electronics.
Just as current secondhand buyers don't like V12s because of their perceived (real or imagined) complexity, so it may be that in 10 years time, the SL will not be favoured as a second-hand buy because the cost of diagnosing and replacing one of the control units (whose electronics will be antique by that time) will be a significant proportion of the residual value of the car, and if the roof mechanism jams and collides with the trunk lid? Forget it....
Last edited by blueSL; Jan 20, 2003 at 06:13 AM.
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Its not uncommon to see Mercedes-Benz taxis in resorts in Spain, Canary Islands, etc with 800,000 + Km's, apparently without so much as even minor problems. Diesel, of course, but the petrol engines are good for 500,000 Km's without major surgery, so the driver/owners say.
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BlueSL,
I have seen the same issue with used cars in the US. Many Americans look at a car with 100,000 miles as being at the "end-of-life" and don't distinguish between a Mercedes or a Chevy. Hard to change that perception
I know that you have a real concern with the cost and serviceabilty of complex systems in the cars like SBC, ABC, etc. a few years down the road.
Mercedes has to maintain the spare part inventory for seven years after the end of production of their cars. I have no worries about getting the parts, especially when several of these components cross product lines like SBC. There will be plenty of new & used part inventories.
As for costs I can tell you that many spare parts for older MB's are just as costly as new ones
Btw, I have read a number of articles that related to huge concerns of the car industry in providing part inventories specific to computer electronics. Due to the fast product life cycles of processors and memory and the long development times of cars, many electronics spec'd in the cars are already discontinued at the time of model introduction and may not be able to be sourced anymore (since most come from Asia anyway). Now that's scary...
Wofman
I have seen the same issue with used cars in the US. Many Americans look at a car with 100,000 miles as being at the "end-of-life" and don't distinguish between a Mercedes or a Chevy. Hard to change that perception
I know that you have a real concern with the cost and serviceabilty of complex systems in the cars like SBC, ABC, etc. a few years down the road.
Mercedes has to maintain the spare part inventory for seven years after the end of production of their cars. I have no worries about getting the parts, especially when several of these components cross product lines like SBC. There will be plenty of new & used part inventories.
As for costs I can tell you that many spare parts for older MB's are just as costly as new ones
Btw, I have read a number of articles that related to huge concerns of the car industry in providing part inventories specific to computer electronics. Due to the fast product life cycles of processors and memory and the long development times of cars, many electronics spec'd in the cars are already discontinued at the time of model introduction and may not be able to be sourced anymore (since most come from Asia anyway). Now that's scary...
Wofman
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Wolfman,
Agree with you 100%.
My concerns stem from having a $800 control valve in my SL600 replaced last year. It affected the ride of the car, doesn't exist in all 129 SLs and was difficult to diagnose and fix. The 129 was first conceived when the PCs used an 80286 and MS-DOS.
With the new SL, I wonder how many people will be prepared to take on a 10 year old car with such complex systems - with diagnostics and technology frozen in time when the car was made.
The whole issue of sourcing components in the future is interesting. No one expects to have a VCR, Microwave or even a lap-top outside warranty fixed these days. If they fail, you junk it and buy a new one. For cars, that option's not available. I assume Mercedes' own suppliers like Bosch and Siemens must contract with semiconductor manufacturers to keep making the parts. Part of getting the business I guess.
I believe the Nokia 6310 phone is selected for use in Europe because Niokia have committed to maintaining a line of phones with the same dimensions and external interface to allow easy replacement in the future.
Agree with you 100%.
My concerns stem from having a $800 control valve in my SL600 replaced last year. It affected the ride of the car, doesn't exist in all 129 SLs and was difficult to diagnose and fix. The 129 was first conceived when the PCs used an 80286 and MS-DOS.
With the new SL, I wonder how many people will be prepared to take on a 10 year old car with such complex systems - with diagnostics and technology frozen in time when the car was made.
The whole issue of sourcing components in the future is interesting. No one expects to have a VCR, Microwave or even a lap-top outside warranty fixed these days. If they fail, you junk it and buy a new one. For cars, that option's not available. I assume Mercedes' own suppliers like Bosch and Siemens must contract with semiconductor manufacturers to keep making the parts. Part of getting the business I guess.
I believe the Nokia 6310 phone is selected for use in Europe because Niokia have committed to maintaining a line of phones with the same dimensions and external interface to allow easy replacement in the future.
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SL55
Sorry to disappoint you Blue but the 6310i will be the last Nokia in that form factor so stock up with spare phones now!
On ECUs etc, don't forget that independent specialist repairers are very clever and are getting better all the time. A lot of ECUs that seem very complex at the moment will be repairable in five years time.
I owned an automotive electrical repairer some years ago. We found that the first ABS ECUs (£700) that main dealers were throwing away as beyond repair were mainly suffering from only dry joints!
Graham
On ECUs etc, don't forget that independent specialist repairers are very clever and are getting better all the time. A lot of ECUs that seem very complex at the moment will be repairable in five years time.
I owned an automotive electrical repairer some years ago. We found that the first ABS ECUs (£700) that main dealers were throwing away as beyond repair were mainly suffering from only dry joints!
Graham
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The Nokia 6310i is already obsolete - the point is, if it is wireless compatible it doesn't matter since it will not require a cradle/connector in the future. The wirelss transmitter will be built into COMAND, and the shape/form/dimensions won't matter. There'll be a soft formable sponge that holds the phone - the rest will be functional and back compatible. Its only a specific radio band after all, and they'll have to keep those for the foreseable future.
But I do think the imminent COMAND II, if it covers the possible current shortcomings, is late but essential.
I believe MB will have engineered the nuts & bolts, the mechanics of their complex systems like ABC & SBC to the highest standards. They invented ABS and refined airbags and they are pretty much 99% reliable thesedays. (Thank God!)
I'm also really inclined to think with the pace of change there'll be an active aftermarket in chip and programme servicing, whether its Mercedes-Benz approved or not. I'm more confident that, just as old Jag's and Rolls are maintained at reasonable costs, Mercs, especially as classic and beautiful as this R230, will always have the necessary spares and willing technicians.
I'm also certain that company's like Ferrari will not command as much respect or care - and its marques like this, Maserati, and perhaps TVR, who will suffer. Aston Martin (Ford), Jaguar, and Porsche will also always be safe bets, but none will receive the post-sale upkeep requirements of the World's No 1 car manufacturer, Daimlerchrysler. (or Chryslerdaimler as it will be by 2030 when the R235 is launched!)
But I do think the imminent COMAND II, if it covers the possible current shortcomings, is late but essential.
I believe MB will have engineered the nuts & bolts, the mechanics of their complex systems like ABC & SBC to the highest standards. They invented ABS and refined airbags and they are pretty much 99% reliable thesedays. (Thank God!)
I'm also really inclined to think with the pace of change there'll be an active aftermarket in chip and programme servicing, whether its Mercedes-Benz approved or not. I'm more confident that, just as old Jag's and Rolls are maintained at reasonable costs, Mercs, especially as classic and beautiful as this R230, will always have the necessary spares and willing technicians.
I'm also certain that company's like Ferrari will not command as much respect or care - and its marques like this, Maserati, and perhaps TVR, who will suffer. Aston Martin (Ford), Jaguar, and Porsche will also always be safe bets, but none will receive the post-sale upkeep requirements of the World's No 1 car manufacturer, Daimlerchrysler. (or Chryslerdaimler as it will be by 2030 when the R235 is launched!)
Last edited by Mustard; Jan 20, 2003 at 03:32 PM.
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Originally posted by Ronald
Why? All AMG cars are tested by the same standards as all non-AMG Mercedes vehicles. There's no difference. AMG just has to use way more high-performance parts to achieve 300.000 km with a Kompressor engine.
Regards,
Ronald
Why? All AMG cars are tested by the same standards as all non-AMG Mercedes vehicles. There's no difference. AMG just has to use way more high-performance parts to achieve 300.000 km with a Kompressor engine.
Regards,
Ronald
I do hope our Mercedes lasts at least 200K miles or 320000 kilometers because thats what our lexus is at right now. And the lexus is showing no signs of giving up!
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It's certainly the case that all a Mercedes dealer will ever do for you is replace the failing component, there isn't the time or the skills available to fix it so outfits like yours Graham which can breathe new life into these things are obviously providing a welcome service.
Mustard, I wish I could share your optimism about the after market specialists. In my experience, they're not keen to touch my SL600 for anything beyond routine maintenance and it is not a complex car compared to the R230. I took mine to one for a second opinion after the control valve failed (because it was Mercedes third attempt to diagnose it). He came to the same conclusion, but only after persuading a dealer to give him access to the diagnostic kit.
Special tools and diagnostic equipment issued only to MB authorised agents will increasingly make it difficult for the specialists, however enthusiastic they are.
Graham, thanks for the Heads-Up on the phone, another line of mis-information from my dealer!
Mustard, I wish I could share your optimism about the after market specialists. In my experience, they're not keen to touch my SL600 for anything beyond routine maintenance and it is not a complex car compared to the R230. I took mine to one for a second opinion after the control valve failed (because it was Mercedes third attempt to diagnose it). He came to the same conclusion, but only after persuading a dealer to give him access to the diagnostic kit.
Special tools and diagnostic equipment issued only to MB authorised agents will increasingly make it difficult for the specialists, however enthusiastic they are.
Graham, thanks for the Heads-Up on the phone, another line of mis-information from my dealer!
