Kleemann supercharger still worth it?
10-20-2007, 10:35 PM
#1
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Kleemann supercharger still worth it?
I had set aside some vacation time 2 weeks from now to get my kleemann kit installed in CO. Then I learned something I had took for granted before--that Kleemann no longer uses thier well known IHI twin screw kit but switched to a generic Eaton roots kit.
The advantages of the twin screw are monument over the roots blowers and well known. It now makes sense why they introduced this EMS module you have to have now. It wasn't because of some added benefit, but to try to overcome the inherent deficiencies of the more inefficient roots blower. It would appear it is there to monitor and drop boost in case the excessive heat generated by the less efficient roots blower gets too high to the point of causing detonation. This of course is going to lead to less power if boost is dropped after hard runs but on top of that you'll have less power anyway due to the higher temps getting into the engine compared to the twin screw system. All that extra heat isn't good for the engine either so you're looking at less engine life.
Kleemann still wants to charge $10,000 for this roots setup and on top of that they want an additional $2,200 for the EMS to keep the system from grenading your engine. To me it would appear they're charging you a premium for a system that is inferior to what they had before or am I over analyzing and making it worse than it seems?
I know Kleemann makes good products, but even they can't change the laws of physics to make the roots system close to what the older twin screw system was capable of. Perhaps if the system was much cheaper than it is then it would be more attractive. $12,200 for the roots system seems too much.
The advantages of the twin screw are monument over the roots blowers and well known. It now makes sense why they introduced this EMS module you have to have now. It wasn't because of some added benefit, but to try to overcome the inherent deficiencies of the more inefficient roots blower. It would appear it is there to monitor and drop boost in case the excessive heat generated by the less efficient roots blower gets too high to the point of causing detonation. This of course is going to lead to less power if boost is dropped after hard runs but on top of that you'll have less power anyway due to the higher temps getting into the engine compared to the twin screw system. All that extra heat isn't good for the engine either so you're looking at less engine life.
Kleemann still wants to charge $10,000 for this roots setup and on top of that they want an additional $2,200 for the EMS to keep the system from grenading your engine. To me it would appear they're charging you a premium for a system that is inferior to what they had before or am I over analyzing and making it worse than it seems?
I know Kleemann makes good products, but even they can't change the laws of physics to make the roots system close to what the older twin screw system was capable of. Perhaps if the system was much cheaper than it is then it would be more attractive. $12,200 for the roots system seems too much.
10-20-2007, 11:10 PM
#2
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I had set aside some vacation time 2 weeks from now to get my kleemann kit installed in CO. Then I learned something I had took for granted before--that Kleemann no longer uses thier well known IHI twin screw kit but switched to a generic Eaton roots kit.
The advantages of the twin screw are monument over the roots blowers and well known. It now makes sense why they introduced this EMS module you have to have now. It wasn't because of some added benefit, but to try to overcome the inherent deficiencies of the more inefficient roots blower. It would appear it is there to monitor and drop boost in case the excessive heat generated by the less efficient roots blower gets too high to the point of causing detonation. This of course is going to lead to less power if boost is dropped after hard runs but on top of that you'll have less power anyway due to the higher temps getting into the engine compared to the twin screw system. All that extra heat isn't good for the engine either so you're looking at less engine life.
Kleemann still wants to charge $10,000 for this roots setup and on top of that they want an additional $2,200 for the EMS to keep the system from grenading your engine. To me it would appear they're charging you a premium for a system that is inferior to what they had before or am I over analyzing and making it worse than it seems?
I know Kleemann makes good products, but even they can't change the laws of physics to make the roots system close to what the older twin screw system was capable of. Perhaps if the system was much cheaper than it is then it would be more attractive. $12,200 for the roots system seems too much.
The advantages of the twin screw are monument over the roots blowers and well known. It now makes sense why they introduced this EMS module you have to have now. It wasn't because of some added benefit, but to try to overcome the inherent deficiencies of the more inefficient roots blower. It would appear it is there to monitor and drop boost in case the excessive heat generated by the less efficient roots blower gets too high to the point of causing detonation. This of course is going to lead to less power if boost is dropped after hard runs but on top of that you'll have less power anyway due to the higher temps getting into the engine compared to the twin screw system. All that extra heat isn't good for the engine either so you're looking at less engine life.
Kleemann still wants to charge $10,000 for this roots setup and on top of that they want an additional $2,200 for the EMS to keep the system from grenading your engine. To me it would appear they're charging you a premium for a system that is inferior to what they had before or am I over analyzing and making it worse than it seems?
I know Kleemann makes good products, but even they can't change the laws of physics to make the roots system close to what the older twin screw system was capable of. Perhaps if the system was much cheaper than it is then it would be more attractive. $12,200 for the roots system seems too much.
My friend, looks like you know what the answer is. Its sad because i know you were looking forward to it.
10-21-2007, 01:14 AM
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Lotus Elise SLK55
The buttom line is horsepower and kleemann makes the same power as renntech kit and they cost about the same. My car resently dyno'd at 408whp and another member here got 410whp from a renntech setup with similar mods (they do promise me that my car will be at 420whp range soon though with a different tune, we'll see). Both kits have ran 11.7 @ 120mph in the 1/4 mile, so the acceleration is probably the same as well.
The way I see it, any way you supercharger your SLK55, you will get hp in 400-420whp range, so you should probably base your decision on what dealer you trust and what dealer is closest to you (if you need service or have problems later on). Just don't be fooled that you will have 480whp in your supercharged SLK55, this is what I expected and got a healthy dose of reality check
P.S. As far as other choices, there are carlsson and MKB, but they are even more expensive.
The way I see it, any way you supercharger your SLK55, you will get hp in 400-420whp range, so you should probably base your decision on what dealer you trust and what dealer is closest to you (if you need service or have problems later on). Just don't be fooled that you will have 480whp in your supercharged SLK55, this is what I expected and got a healthy dose of reality check
P.S. As far as other choices, there are carlsson and MKB, but they are even more expensive.
Last edited by Addicted2Speed; 10-21-2007 at 01:18 AM.
10-21-2007, 02:23 PM
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'93 RX-7, SLK55
I had set aside some vacation time 2 weeks from now to get my kleemann kit installed in CO. Then I learned something I had took for granted before--that Kleemann no longer uses thier well known IHI twin screw kit but switched to a generic Eaton roots kit.
The advantages of the twin screw are monument over the roots blowers and well known. It now makes sense why they introduced this EMS module you have to have now. It wasn't because of some added benefit, but to try to overcome the inherent deficiencies of the more inefficient roots blower. It would appear it is there to monitor and drop boost in case the excessive heat generated by the less efficient roots blower gets too high to the point of causing detonation. This of course is going to lead to less power if boost is dropped after hard runs but on top of that you'll have less power anyway due to the higher temps getting into the engine compared to the twin screw system. All that extra heat isn't good for the engine either so you're looking at less engine life.
Kleemann still wants to charge $10,000 for this roots setup and on top of that they want an additional $2,200 for the EMS to keep the system from grenading your engine. To me it would appear they're charging you a premium for a system that is inferior to what they had before or am I over analyzing and making it worse than it seems?
I know Kleemann makes good products, but even they can't change the laws of physics to make the roots system close to what the older twin screw system was capable of. Perhaps if the system was much cheaper than it is then it would be more attractive. $12,200 for the roots system seems too much.
The advantages of the twin screw are monument over the roots blowers and well known. It now makes sense why they introduced this EMS module you have to have now. It wasn't because of some added benefit, but to try to overcome the inherent deficiencies of the more inefficient roots blower. It would appear it is there to monitor and drop boost in case the excessive heat generated by the less efficient roots blower gets too high to the point of causing detonation. This of course is going to lead to less power if boost is dropped after hard runs but on top of that you'll have less power anyway due to the higher temps getting into the engine compared to the twin screw system. All that extra heat isn't good for the engine either so you're looking at less engine life.
Kleemann still wants to charge $10,000 for this roots setup and on top of that they want an additional $2,200 for the EMS to keep the system from grenading your engine. To me it would appear they're charging you a premium for a system that is inferior to what they had before or am I over analyzing and making it worse than it seems?
I know Kleemann makes good products, but even they can't change the laws of physics to make the roots system close to what the older twin screw system was capable of. Perhaps if the system was much cheaper than it is then it would be more attractive. $12,200 for the roots system seems too much.
10-21-2007, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Addicted2Speed
The buttom line is horsepower and kleemann makes the same power as renntech kit and they cost about the same. My car resently dyno'd at 408whp and another member here got 410whp from a renntech setup with similar mods (they do promise me that my car will be at 420whp range soon though with a different tune, we'll see). Both kits have ran 11.7 @ 120mph in the 1/4 mile, so the acceleration is probably the same as well.
The way I see it, any way you supercharger your SLK55, you will get hp in 400-420whp range, so you should probably base your decision on what dealer you trust and what dealer is closest to you (if you need service or have problems later on). Just don't be fooled that you will have 480whp in your supercharged SLK55, this is what I expected and got a healthy dose of reality check
P.S. As far as other choices, there are carlsson and MKB, but they are even more expensive.
The way I see it, any way you supercharger your SLK55, you will get hp in 400-420whp range, so you should probably base your decision on what dealer you trust and what dealer is closest to you (if you need service or have problems later on). Just don't be fooled that you will have 480whp in your supercharged SLK55, this is what I expected and got a healthy dose of reality check
P.S. As far as other choices, there are carlsson and MKB, but they are even more expensive.
Originally Posted by Yellow R1
The 550 & 550 powerplants utilize the Roots type blower. I believe the SLK55 powerplant blower still uses the Eaton type....maybe you should speak w/Cory or Brandon (if you have not already done so) to confirm. Kleemann's web site clearly indicates the M113 powerplant uses the Eaton twin screw design. http://www.kleemann.dk/site/D73BB20B...0-FBAD205206BF
10-21-2007, 04:30 PM
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E550 Coupe
I'm not too familiar with the supercharger business, but JoshK had a centrifugal supercharger done by the folks at http://www.hopracing.com
http://www.mysubprofile.com/mbworld/joshkdyno.mp4 (right click, save as)
http://www.mysubprofile.com/mbworld/joshkdyno.mp4 (right click, save as)
10-21-2007, 05:05 PM
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Lotus Elise SLK55
I'm sure they've tweaked it to get about the same amount of peak power. The question I have is how consistent is that power going to be with the increased heat coming into the engine? The roots blowers by design are much less efficient and produce much more heat, not a small amount like 5 or 10%, but 30-40% more than a twin screw. Heat robs power and decreases engine life. The roots blower is working a whole lot harder to make 400rwp than a twin screw would; the parasitic loss of a roots is staggering. With the EMS in there dropping boost to compensate for the heat and living in TX where the ambient is already hot am I going to be running around on 1/2 boost all the time or something like that? I'm trying to find out what kind of intercooler upgrade they did when they switched from the twin screw to the roots. The new system would have to have a hefty upgrade to stay somewhat competitive with their old design.
As far as consistency, all 4 of my dyno pulls were with 3whp and I've never seen the temperature gauge move once even in 105 degree Miami weather when I was stuck in traffic. I'm unhappy with the power of this kit (was expecting 450whp, got 408whp), but I am very happy with how cool the setup stays under extreme conditions, the intercooler seems to be working very well. My car does have phenolic spacers and thermostat though, which are not part of the kit but are worth getting...
Last edited by Addicted2Speed; 10-21-2007 at 05:08 PM.
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10-21-2007, 06:23 PM
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
This is why I am going with a custom setup. None of these SC Kits make enough power for me. Btw...Autorotor makes the old Kleemann blowers, not IHI who makes the Renntech blowers.
10-21-2007, 08:44 PM
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I am corrected. That's what happens when you do too much research; it all starts running together.
10-21-2007, 08:49 PM
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As far as consistency, all 4 of my dyno pulls were with 3whp and I've never seen the temperature gauge move once even in 105 degree Miami weather when I was stuck in traffic. I'm unhappy with the power of this kit (was expecting 450whp, got 408whp), but I am very happy with how cool the setup stays under extreme conditions, the intercooler seems to be working very well. My car does have phenolic spacers and thermostat though, which are not part of the kit but are worth getting...
10-21-2007, 09:34 PM
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Lotus Elise SLK55
You're right, the 7 speed seems to have about a 16% drivetrain loss if the US crank HP # of 355 is to be believed. Most are dynoing at ~300 rwhp. If I remember right you got the SC, ecu, and headers which they advertise as 530HP which should be right near 450 rwhp. That is troubling that you're missing that much power.
With the kompressor, headers, cats and a couple of other minor things (like phenolic spacers and thermostat), the power went from 285whp to 408whp, which is a 123whp gain. Using 20% powerloss, thats about 490bhp. Jliu from slkworld got 410whp, almost exactly the same as myself. And SLK55 Kleemann from this forum got 512bhp. All three of these cars have same mods: supercharger, headers, minor mods and all of them ended up getting 490-510bhp after these mods so I think this is as much as you can expect from any kit. Tuners seem to always advertise very optimistic numbers
(some tuners claim 20-30hp just from ecu tune lol).Please refer to these two kleemann SLK55 dyno's. Both cars have kompressor, ecu, headers. One is 408whp (~490bhp) and another is 512bhp. I don't have the Jliu's 410whp renntech dyno, he didn't post it unfortunately. I think its still worth it since 130whp+ is a huge gain in power... just don't expect your SLK55 to have close to 600bhp once its done
Last edited by Addicted2Speed; 10-21-2007 at 09:42 PM.
10-22-2007, 01:43 PM
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SLK 55 Kleemann -06 Lotus Esprit V8 Biturbo -96 Harley Lowrider -06
And after that I added their Exhaustsystem, another 15 hp/35 Nm
So totally 550 hp/770 Nm - BUT! it is not measured at the wheels!
550hp - 20% = 440 hp
550hp - 16% = 462 hp
10-22-2007, 06:49 PM
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Lotus Elise SLK55
Yeah I know, I was comparing your 512hp dyno to my 490hp dyno because at that time, we had the same mods: supercharger, ecu, headers (I don't have cams or exhaust). Jliu also got a little under 500hp with his renntech supercharger and headers... so basically almost all supercharged SLK55's are somewhere around 500hp with headers. With cams exhaust, which is what you have now, most people will probably get 525-535hp.
10-22-2007, 08:38 PM
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Looking for a new toy.
Supercharger issues aside (although I will say that I am surprised Kleeman would drop the twin screw design for the notably inferior roots style...), you can't directly compare dyno results (especially from different types of dynos) to another. Best place to test power is at the track! 
My l'il 265whp car, actually 256 as I never had the green filters in then *L*, ran 12.7's and 110+traps last time out
My l'il 265whp car, actually 256 as I never had the green filters in then *L*, ran 12.7's and 110+traps last time out
10-23-2007, 11:53 AM
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Looking for a new toy.
10-23-2007, 11:58 AM
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SLK 55 Kleemann -06 Lotus Esprit V8 Biturbo -96 Harley Lowrider -06
Yeah I know, I was comparing your 512hp dyno to my 490hp dyno because at that time, we had the same mods: supercharger, ecu, headers (I don't have cams or exhaust). Jliu also got a little under 500hp with his renntech supercharger and headers... so basically almost all supercharged SLK55's are somewhere around 500hp with headers. With cams exhaust, which is what you have now, most people will probably get 525-535hp.
I have no dyno after exhaust mod, but this is what I have been told - 550hp atleast!!
10-23-2007, 12:33 PM
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'07 ML63 & '07 SLK55,Ferrari F430 spider on order
hey fishy,i have these images of an old man ,that loves his slk so much lol and cleans it everyday 
his dream car! 12.7 runs! keep them coming pops!
his dream car! 12.7 runs! keep them coming pops!
Last edited by Earl; 10-23-2007 at 04:32 PM.
