mikE55

Just curious if anyone has tried the HPS system? Not as powerful as Kleemann, but a little cheaper. http://www.myhps.com

KenE55

I am seriously considering going for the HPS system. It is substantially cheaper than the Kleeman system.

I too was hoping someone else would go first! I'll keep you all posted if I go for it.

KenE55

One more comment. There is an inverse correlation between power and reliability. I'd rather have a little less power and a little more reliability, especially if the price is much easier to rationalize.

Lucas

KenE55

In an engine with turbo / compressor, what you just wrote is not correct.

The Eaton is simply not as efficiant as the KLEEMANN, which means it will give higher temps. on the blow out side of the compressor. When HPS do not use an intercooler on a compressor that needs it more than KLEEMANN, something is not right.

KLEEMANN uses approx. 0,5 bar boost ( I don't know what boost HPS use ), but it have to be somewhere close to the same.
The difference in design, make the KLEEMANN system more powerfull, but because HPS have less power doesen't mean it's better for the engine. the lower temps. there will hit the engine the less stress there will be on it.

Just look at Lorinser from Germany, they have a compressor system with a centrifugal compressor and no intercooler, it can't even bring out 400 HP on the crank on a 55, they can't sell in Germany because customers will use the power and drive fast.
The engines doesen't last a week and this compressor system only increase 40-50 HP with a boost of 0.5 ( same as KLEEMANN )

The temperatures are the only thing that matters.

KenE55

I agree with your concerns and your point, but isn't the Eaton system used by HPS the same as the blower in the AMG supplied engines? Are they different, or are you saying the AMG engines won't be reliable either?

HPS does offer a very comprehensive warranty on their work, included in the price, for about half of what the Kleeman system costs.

I just can't rationalize the well over $20k the Kleeman system costs. Surely the new W211 E55 will not go up in price anywhere near that much over the W210, and the W211 includes many enhancements over the W210.

I didn't mean to oversimplify the performance vs. reliability issue. But at some point more HP puts more strain on everything, not just the engine itself.

It's hard to get meaningful data on reliability when the only source is the vendor, and that applies to HPS and Kleeman. There are few of these systems actually on the road. There is little alternative for the consumer but to base the reliability decision on the written warranty provided. Although I have not seen Kleeman's warranty in writing, the HPS warranty is provided by an independent company and appears to be very comprehensive.

I am trying to making an informed, rational decision, and appreciate your feedback.

Cory @ Kleemann

AMG uses a lysholm type compressor made by a company called IHI out of japan. The only vehicle they use an eaton on is the 4 cyl. kompressor engine. There is a reason AMG does not use an eaton on their high HP kompressor engines: they simply are not as efficient as a lysholm type compressor.

I wouldn't say that over 3000 KLEEMANN systems on the road is "a few". If you tabulate drivetrain failures of every single KLEEMANN kompressor system on the road today, the number would come to ZERO. Not a single drivetrain failure. I don't know how much more reliable you can get.

"well over $20k"????? Try $18,795 with installation. LESS than $20k with installation. I think it's odd that HPS only has THREE dealers in the us. Fine if you live in Maryland, Conneticut or California. What about everyone else?

Base SL500: (approx.) $86,000
Base SL55 AMG (aprox.) $110,000

You are paying $24,000 for the kompressor engine.

I'm sure that the 211 will have the same markup as the SL.

KLEEMANN is currently negotiating a warranty which will cover anything MB does not, for 30,000 miles. I know talk is cheap, and I can assure you we are working very hard on getting this warranty implemented. The U.S is very strange- People in Europe don't seem to care about thier warranty- maybe Europe is very strange!

By the way, there are two N's in KLEEMANN

JamE55

CoryU

When do you guys think this warranty negotiating happen?? 1 month??2 mos? 8 mos? or 1yr?? What??

Thanks!

Cory @ Kleemann

JamE55-

As soon as possible!!! We are hoping by january 2003. This is top priority right now. We are trying to get a warranty like I mentioned that will not be insanely expensive for the consumer. I will keep everyone posted on the progress!!

JamE55

CoryU

Thanks for the info. I'm sure once you guys get this warranty issue straightened out you will have very less or no issue at all about someone buying your awsome product!

KenE55

Thanks CoryU for those useful details.

I have read elsewhere that the IHI lysholm is more efficient, so no argument there.

OK, I promise to spell KLEEMANN with two N's, and sorry I got the price wrong.

Any idea how many of those 3000 KLEEMANN installs are E55's in the USA?

You can't compare the difference in list price between the SL500 and the SL55 to estimate the cost of the MB supercharger, since there is a lot more than the supercharger included in the SL55.

Compare the 2002 E55 to the 2004 E55 with the supercharger. I doubt MB will charge $24k more for the new E55 than the old... that would put the W211 at roughly $95k. And of course the new W211 has some other enhancements over the W210.

But I realize this is pointless. The KLEEMANN system is great, and it's up to me to decide if it is worth $18,795.00, or if I'm better off getting in line for the W211 and using that money towards the new car.

Again, thanks for the info!

Cory @ Kleemann

KenE55-

Seeing as how KLEEMANN has been in business for less than two years in the U.S., the majority of the percentage is outside the U.S. Just curious- why does it matter? If anything, people in Europe are harder on thier vehicles than they are here, seeing as how they have autobahns.

By the way, KLEEMANN has just taken delivery of our new W211 E500! WHAT AN AWSOME CAR!!!! It is so much different from the outgoing W210. You really have to drive it to fully appreciate it.

Brilliant Silver
Charcoal leather interior
panoramic glass roof
keyless go
brake by wire
drive by wire
DC ABC suspension, and lot's of other wiz-bang stuff!

We will be adding the following:
Kompressor
Exhaust
Electronic body lowering module
Brakes
Wheels
Interior, all within the next couple of weeks.

It's a damn shame that snow is in the forecast here in colorado! Hopefully it won't be too bad!

JamE55

CoryU

Pls post pics once your E500 with the Kleemann kit is installed. As far as the snow think you guys need to move down here in the sunny southern cali!

Just out of curiosity why did you guys choose Colorado for your location and not california or other state?? (somthing i've been meaning to ask but kept forgetting)

Cory @ Kleemann

JamE55-

it's 5:30 in the morning right now, and it's 37 F! I will post pics when we complete the installation. I will also try and post a dyno chart when we get a chance to make a few runs. That cold air will make for some awsome numbers!

We chose Colorado because:

The President of the company, Brandon has lived here for quite some time, and he likes it here. Secondly, it's located (almost) in the middle of the country, so shipping tends to be fairly cheap for everyone. We are a close shot to the anual SEMA show, and we can cover the mid-west region ourselves, although we are always looking for new dealers.

On a side note, I was born and raised here, and I can't think of anywhere else I would rather live! The weather here can be phenominal, we have four real seasons (I like that sort of thing) and there's no fun like a rear wheel drive car in a snowy parking lot!

JamE55

Thanks for the reply CoryU! And yes pls post pics and numbers when you're done. Can't wait to see it. As far as your location it does make a lot of sense.

Cory @ Kleemann

According to your Microsoft Excel dyno chart, you have a 107 HP increase over stock on an E55 correct? If so, 9995/107=$93.41 per HP

KLEEMANN: example E55:

kompressor- 16,995
HP gain- 210

16995/210= $80.92 per HP.

I'd say you should do the math before you start claiming that no one can compete with your HP per $ numbers.

KLEEMANN= more bang for your buck!

Cory @ Kleemann

I'm afraid not HPS- It's a proven fact that the lysholm twin screw kompressor is more efficient than the roots type eaton. By the way, the IHI unit is more expensive than a comparable eaton. Mercedes didn't "switch" to IHI- AMG has been producing thier kompressor engine's with IHI since they started making them. Companies like AMG, and KLEEMANN know that there is more to supercharging a Mercedes than just bolting up an eaton supercharger onto a bracket and attaching it to the engine. We're not dealing with Honda's here.

JamE55

Ouch!!!!!!!!! Thought this was a Benz forum? j/k

AndrewEclipse

Would HPS and Kleeman bolting on their superchargers on the same car and going down to a local dragstrip solve the conflicting issues?

Numbers are great, but I want to see results in action.


So what do you guys say?? Choose a car, perfect your superchargers and lets go down to the track.

Cory @ Kleemann

Check out these numbers

http://www.mbautowerks.com/performance/00001/00001.html

I will gladly go up against ANY HPS car. It won't be a race- more like a pounding.

jcjmw

CoryU

Will you provide a warranty, like HPS?

Cory @ Kleemann

As I have stated numerous times before, our warranty should be effective by the end of the year. It will cover anything drivetrain related that MB will not cover under the factory warranty. Things like broken trim pieces, window switches, body issues will still be covered under the factory warranty.

Fast Eddy

It is interesting that HPS with according to you an infiriour S/C easily got warrenty at the time of putting product on the market while kleemann is negotiating who knows what. And Europe is strange/different Cory, depending on your point of view--- why dont you go there yourself, how about girls not shaving body hair or not take shower every day? Bad teeth. Bad food in London ( I eat only Indian there) and Germany. You can buy and smoke dope in Netherland in cafe. People in Europe may not care (according to you) about warrenty as well. Things are different, too bad you don't have a clue.

Fast Eddy

When you provide the same warrenty HPS provides with their blower-than you will be bang for the buck as of now you have a system that will void warrenty on the engine and who knows what else. Why dont you go yourself to every MB dealer every time someone with kleemann needs scedueled service and explaine that to them that installation of kleemann should not void warrenty. I think conversation with you willbe very short-you will do a lot of explanation and get no scedueled free service.

Mach430

I'm going for my free scheduled service B next week. My only concern is that they'll put 20 miles on it again!

otoupalik

Eddy,

We have doen a dozen Kleemann cars or so and not had one that is not serviced by the owners home dealership. Theory and speculation is nice, reality is better!

Thanks

Brad