Simon P

Hi, I've been looking for an E55 W210 or C32. (Or maybe a C55 or CLK55 W208. But likely not. C55 to expensive). I have pretty much now decided on an E55 W210. They look pretty damn good with some rims. Have aged a bit in looks. But they have a classic look and seem very reliable. Compared to a C32 which looks newer. has more capabilities to increase power quite easily. But lack the reliability that the E55 W210 seems to have. I cannot ignore all the bad feedback I have received with the C32. The C32 seems to be a never ending repair bill.

Therefore, the E55 seems the one for me. As it's naturally aspirated, I realize that performance mods are limited. Compared to a C32 and E55 W211. I've previously owned a stroked V8 (spent $10,000 on the motor) and Nissan 200sx that ran 20 psi and had 220kw@wheels (spent $20,000 on performance mods) which was impossible to launch as car would either bog down or wheels would just spin. The car only weighed 1290 kg! The power wasn't usable as often as I'd like. The wheels would also spin when dumping the throttle at 70kms. I used to work at a mechanical wk shop so I had the capabilities to mod the car. However, that's the past and I don't have have a workshop to work on the car myself and I don't want to spend big $ on mods like I have in the past.

So when I find an E55 W210 (they are rare in Australia), I won't be adding a supercharger to it as I'm assuming that this will cost $5,000+. What I am thinking of doing is exhaust, intake and maybe an LSD diff (possibly with a different ratio).

My questions are:
1). What performance mods would people recommend? And
2). Approximately what kw / hp and torque will those mods get me? Approximately what price?
I know the car has 260kw@flywheel (348hp) and 530Nm Torque. I've also been told that the car gets from 0-100km / 0-62miles in approximately 5-5.7 seconds.
I was thinking of a 2 1/2 or 3 inch exhaust from the standard headers / extractors.
3). But are the standard headers / extractors restricted? If so,
4). Would people advice to get aftermarket headers and change the whole exhaust?
5), Is the standard intake manifold restricted?
Basically, I want to know if its worth changing the whole exhaust including headers? And if its worth changing the intake manifold?
6). I will get an ECU re-mapped. But can the standard ECU be re-tuned including fuel and timing? Or do I need to purchase an aftermarket ECU?
7). Would changing the diff to LSD give better acceleration times? As I would think that when a rear wheel starts spinning, the ECU takes power away from that wheel

So in summary, What performance mods would people recommend to get extra hp / torque and to better the 0-100km / 0-62miles times without affecting reliability and without spending huge amounts of $? I should state that an E55 W210 with not to many kms is worth $22,000 - $24,000 for a 1998-1999 and up to $30,000 for a 2000-2001 model. So spending a few thousand $ on performance mods may be worthwhile for me.

Your feedback will be much appreciated.

Cheers
Simon.

MB_Fahrer

Simon, I am just heading out of the office, so I will keep it short for now. I'll get back with a more in depth viewpoint tonight.

For the time being, check out the offerings on these websites (just find products then W210 sections):

http://www.mkb-power.de/content/en/p...s/products.php

http://renntechmercedes.com/www/catalog/158

http://shop.kleemann.dk/shop/frontpage.html

Cheers,
Ricky

Simon P

MB_Fahrer): Damn, didn't realize how expensive parts were and for such minimal gains. So much more than parts for my Nissan 200sx. Yes, Euro vs Jap.
It would be nice if I could get the E55 w210 to aprox 400-450hp and 550-600Nm. And to get it from 0-100kms in about 4.5 seconds. I'd really love to be able to keep up with my mates c63. Probably have more luck with a modded c32. Oh, I don't want to have to go down that pathway again.. C32..$$ ??

suicidal4life

The stock exhaust manifolds have a lot of room for improvement. Here is a link to some pics of a W211 manifold which is very similar to the W210's.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ders-must.html

At one point in the last year or so Kleemann was running $995 special pricing on their W210 headers. Not sure if this is still going on or not but might be worth looking into.

Strigoi

Any AMG is going to be expensive to mod.

Simon P

I think I'd modify e55 w210 by changing the intake and exhaust manifold (headers). The whole exhaust system and modify ECU. PRICE??
Has anyone done these mods? If so, worth the costs?
Or would it be cheaper / better to just add a supercharger or turbo to it?

CharlyE500

Kleemann has the header for sale few months back for $1000. You can ask Header + ECU for a combo price approx $1500 + labor. The problem with W210 is very limited for modding unless you add Kleemann Supercharge. The Renntech airbox about $1k used but only increase 5 to 10 hp. If you want go big, go with Kleemann Supercharge otherwise just do the header and ECU will take you to 380 to 390hp.

MB_Fahrer

Send the intake manifold out to get extrude honed. I've used these guys before: http://www.extrudehone.com/

For the exhaust, the best headers are going to be the Kleemann set with their ECU tune--won't have CEL due to O2 sensors. Normally, I'm a huge RENNtech fan. They generally make the best of everything. Period. In this case though, I think the longer, more tubular style headers that Kleemann offers is better. If it was my car, I would go for the RENNtech headers regardless of what I think of the Kleemanns.

Kleemann: http://shop.kleemann.dk/shop/hiflow-...ders-336p.html

RENNtech: http://renntechmercedes.com/www/node/319

Supercharging the E55's is a possibility, but personally I would want to lower the compression ratio (thicker head gaskets than stock) to allow for higher boost.

Personally, I bought my '02 because of two reasons: it's the N/A M113 and it has good-old shocks and springs.

Another thing to keep in mind, Mercedes in general are the opposite of the Japanese cars. There are limited parts, hardly anybody tunes MB's, and there just isn't a whole lot of untapped power to be found. The absurd pricing will shock you at first, but you'll get used to it. I still gawk at a few things, but in general it all starts to look like a good deal after a while. My viewpoint is slightly skewed though with some of the other cars I've dealt with.

MB_Fahrer

Are you talking about 400-450 rear wheel horsepower or at the crank? If at the crank, that is very achievable. Kleemann headers and ecu, RENNtech airbox, honed intake manifold, and exhaust. If at the wheels, then just buy something like this: http://renntechmercedes.com/www/node/318

Stock the E55's are about 5.0 0-100km/h. I finally found a good road for 0-100km/h runs around me, so once this snow passes through, I will head over and give it a shot. Be nice if I was at sea-level, but I'll take what I can get. Be interesting to see just where it's at.

Simon P

CHARLYE500): Thanks for your advice.
MB_FAHRER): Thanks too. I meant 400-450hp@flywheel. In your first post, you gave me 3 Webb sites to look at. The first one: MKB had a performance package which included headers incl full exhaust, different cams and ecu tune. Has anyone done cams? Not sure if cams are necessarily. Plus, is the exhaust restrictive? Or just the headers / extractors? Likewise with the inlet manifold? Restrictive?
Cheers

MB_Fahrer

Cams are also a good idea. Clearly, I'm suffering reduced brain functioning, as I should have thought to mention those. Kleemann makes cams, and I spoke with Corey about them. I am not buying them though because he won't send me the specs. I would like to know what I am getting into before I dump a bunch of money into something like that. SLR Mclaren cams work as well in the N/A M113. The MKB-power "package" that includes the cams sounds interesting. I will send them an email to ask about pricing and specs. I speak some German, so it might be easier if I just post back up what they say--don't remember if they speak English or not. Schrick also makes M113 cams.

If you are going to do cams, you might as well get the heads flowed and have oversized valves installed with titanium seats and upgraded springs (Supertech is great quality and reasonably priced).

The intake manifold might not necessarily be restrictive, but it never hurt to have them extrude honed.

I have no idea how restrictive the stock exhaust is, but the exhaust manifolds do not look very "performance oriented." Tubular headers like the Kleemann (maybe the MKB? I'll ask for more info on the headers as well) set generally work great. Mercedes always has a tendency to put too much exhaust on a car. Cats, pre cats, resonators, blah, blah, blah. Just too much.

So if you are thinking in the 400-450bhp range (which is entirely possible with a N/A M113), I would do something of the following (depending on inspection/emissions testing for your area of course):

Run dual 200 cell race cats. Those typically sneak through the smog tests. Ditch the secondary's for an x-pipe, then eliminate the resonator, and find a muffler you like. Eisenmann's sound the best, but you pay through the nose ($2000 on average plus 8 weeks for manufacture time). I'm sure there are other mufflers for the E55's that sound just fine, but if it was me, then Eisenmann is the only answer.

Here's another website for you to poke through. They're in England, but are well known in the MB world. Typically have good quality. I haven't heard anything negative about them, but I do not have any personal experience with them.

W210 section:
http://www.cksperformance.com/index....cPath=27_74_43

Cheers,
Ricky

MB_Fahrer

Sent an email off to MKB. I am actually needing to call Hartmut about some heads, so I'll ask him if RENNtech offers any cams for the E55. I'm curious myself just what they'd do with these cars, as they occasionally do some custom work.

Simon P

Headers including full exhaust minus resonator etc. plus ECU re-mapping seem a good option. &, or
changing the diff to LSD and maybe even changing ratio to get better bottom-end take-off / acceleration could also be a good option. In Australia, we have a speed limit of 110km/h. 100km/h on most freeways / hwys. Plus, even though some people will say that the Mercs computer is smart enough to take away power from a rear wheel that's spinning without losing power to the wheels as such. I still believe that there is less power to the wheels (more lost power) than what an LSD would lose.

Has anybody actually changed a diff? If so, did it work well?

Cheers.

MB_Fahrer

Diffs are very useful for these cars. I usually drive with the traction control turned off because of the OEM open diff. The car is always spinning one tire or another, which then throws the TC into PMS-emergency-shut-all-power-off-now(!!!) mode. That's about the only thing in these cars that annoys me.

The OS Giken (exclusively sold through RENNtech) diffs are great. Quaife does make a LSD for quite a few Mercedes, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say in the red highlighted part. Can you clarify? Are you talking about power loss when the TC system kicks in or are you referring to actual drivetrain power loss? Generally, these cars only lose about 18-19% power through the drivetrain--not too shabby considering they all have automatics. The 722 is a great transmission. We are lucky to have that unit in these cars.

Simon P

I meant about the power loss when the TC system kicks in. A mechanic told me that its smart enough and affective enough as a LSD to get power to the wheels. But I don't agree. Can't believe a $195,000 car hasn't got LSD. My Nissan 200sx had a LSD and that was $48,000 brand new.

JamE55

Your car was that much? What country are you from?

MB_Fahrer

He's from Australia--land of the nutty car taxes and regulations Give things some time, it'll be just like that in the USA before too long.

MB_Fahrer

That's Mercedes for 'ya! You'll get used to little things like this in time. Took me a while, but you learn to appreciate their little peculiarities.

Your mechanic makes a good point. I hadn't actually thought it out that far. I bet the diff would make little miss "kill all the power" simmer down a bit. I think I will get an OS Giken unit for mine. It really needs it. Especially in this cold weather. I suppose I could just use 7/10 throttle instead of 11/10, but what's the fun in that?

Simon P

Yes, an E55 w210 was that much brand new. There is an excellent cond 2001 model with 170,000kms that's going for $30,000. Doesn't have GPS, screen etc. Aussies get robbed here.
Thinking headers, pulley, full 2.5 inch exhaust and ecu tune. Hope fully that will get me at least 400hp at flywheel.
Does anyone actually know if getting an LSD will improve acceleration? i.e. Putting more power to the wheels without the computer reducing the power to the wheel because of wheel spin?
Furthermore, I have seen some headers and pulley on ebay. Does anyone know if these are as affective as a named brand like klemman etc
Cheers

Wile E. Coyote

Simon says,
Simon, you're quite right when you say that the number of performance modifications designed expressly for the W210 E55 AMG is pretty slim. However, I know of two very affordable and necessary mods that are available on eBay, of all places. Hunt for the Eurocharged Performance tuning packages and you'll most likely find some mods that include the particular 55 AMG you may someday own. I got great deals on an ECU and a TCU performance tune from them on eBay by submitting my best offer in two of their auctions. Their ECU tune gave me a solid 25 HP and 30+ ft.lbs. torque increases at the rear wheels. Additionally, the tune deprogrammed the 155 MPH limit imposed by Mercedes. (If your'e interested in things such as the Mojave Mile, this delimiting actually matters!) The TCU tune from Eurocharged gave me tighter shifts, a higher shift RPM and higher torque settings that reduced the factory tranny slippage. Trust me, the combo of these Eurocharged tuning packages is WAY noticeable and worth the money spent! Highly recommended!
Hope you find one,

Wile E. Coyote

Wile E. Coyote

Simon says:
The MSRP on my 2000 E55 AMG was $69,800 USD in December 1999, which is roughly $100K in today's money. In March of this year, I laid out a little under $12K to take possession of this 13 year old vehicle with 96K miles from a private party. While $30K for what seems to be a very similar vehicle sounds excessive to me, if that price is competitive for similar vehicles in Australia, you're really kind of stuck, aren't you? IMHO, I say, buy the thing and drive it until you die!
Happy hunting,

Wile E. Coyote

suicidal4life

Not sure if you've been inside our intake manifolds or not but I don't think extrude hone would work very well. I'm inclined to think it might actually make it worse considering all the baffles and what not. IMO mbenzman's hands on approach is the only way to improve the internals of these manifolds.

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk55-amg...rome-dome.html

Simon P

I read up a bit about the E55 W210 intake manifold. I think MB designed these pretty well. I believe it would be worthwhile changing the headers, Pulleys and exhaust system if it's more restrictive than a 2 1/2 inch exhaust. Does anyone know the size of the standard exhaust? Is it mandual bent? Finally, once those parts have been replaced, I think an ECU tune may just get it a little past 400hp at the flywheel. Does anyone know what the standard cams are like? Usually the lumpier the cam, the higher top end power you get. But in doing so, it worsens the lower end power. Is the factory cams a good balance of power from bottom end and top end? Without comprosmising bottom end or top end to much?

Furthermore, it's been told that you can buy the headers and pulleys from ebay. Are these parts as affective / efficient as the named brands like Kleeman etc?
Cheers

Wile E. Coyote

Simon says:
Yes. Go to eurocharged.com and find the ECU/TCU tunes. On their site they have "before and after" dyno results that really show how well the 5.4L engine was designed in terms of power band. The torque and HP curves are quite amazing, even on the 55 AMG stock engine! You've got quite usable pull and power from around 1.5K RPM out through 6K+ RPM. IMHO, once you start playing with cams, you can never stop tinkering. ; )
Just buy one!

Wile E. Coyote

Simon P

Sweet. Yes, you would think that mb would have produced / designed efficient cams. But you would think the same with headers. Is the standard exhaust 2 1/2 inches? If its restrictive (less than 2 1/2), it should probably be replaced.