Finnish C32

simply laws of physic stands behind the fact. IF there is 640hp under that hood, M6 cant be faster. tyre pressures or gearing cant change this.

Tuskir

And what about torque too? K4 has like double the torque of an m6.

amdeutsch

Torque/gearing gets you going from a standstill. HP/gearing does it at the upper end.

Generalization.

HTH

M&M

Imp, all those videos you posted. I accept them. I'm not a sore loser like you. I'm sure there were circumtances that contrived to a certain car being faster than the other, but I believe it went down like the video showed.

As for you, you will never accept any video. It has to be rigged. The K4 has lower tyre pressures but hey, it's got plenty torque to take care of that. The M6 has to be modded. Well even if it were, the K4 is not stock. SO what would be the big deal.

Now are you going to officially state here that the M6 is modded? I am still waiting to hear what mods it has. The M6 exhaust sounds the same as the other stock one that raced the M5. The mufflers are stock. It must have internal mods you say. Weird the Kleeman guys didn't pick it up & they examined the car after the race.

Finnish C32

if 640ps (advertised???) kleeman car got raped by stock m6, kleeman sucks. lets take a race, stock SLR vs M6. pink slips?

M&M

Well that's assuming the Kleeman makes 640hp which I doubt.

Improviz

Well, that's mighty magnanimous of you...so, if I parse your oh-so-carefully worded phrase and translate it into English, you're saying that you believe that the videos were not fraudulent, but that circumstances contrived (sic) to make a certain car faster than the other.

Care to elaborate? And care to contribute any evidence you have to support this claim?

Funny, I could have sworn that a) I posted three videos, which puts the lie to your first claim, and b) I never said that the Gustav video was rigged, which puts the lie to the second.

That's two lies in two sentences. About par for the course for you...

The big deal is, a "stock" M6 doing what that car did, *against* a K4 E55, particularly when we have multiple videos from multiple owners showing markedly different results.

Now, you seem to be implying that in all videos but Gustav's, something was "contrived" which led to the M cars not doing so well.

Which would be what? What are you trying to say?

You say "no excuses", but then turn around and make excuses, through insinuation. What was contrived? What evidence of it do you have? Three different M owners, driving three different cars.

Are you going to go on record here as saying that something went wrong in all three of those M cars? Different owners in different places at different times....hmmmm.

Another lie. What I said was that given the performance of the three other videos we have seen, compared with the Gustav videos racing the exact same cars, I am suspicious. And I produced videos demonstrating why I am suspicious.

I also said, in the post to which you are alluding, that one could not, as you were implying in your previous post, determine simply by inspection of the car's exterior that the car was stock. And, as is your custom when cornered, you simply back away from this ridiculous claim, shift your argument, and continue spewing yet more nonsense.

You state, unequivocally, that the mufflers are stock. Proof? The answer is that unless you were at that race and personally inspected those mufflers, you could not possibly know this. Nor could you possibly know, without stripping the engine down and examining each and every part therein, whether the engine's internals are indeed stock.

Ergo, your statement is yet another lie, which you toss out like beads at a Mardi Gras parade.

Oh, they did? Where? Link?

Rock

M&M are you the same guy that everyone loves on the M3Forum?

Okay, let's look at some other facts. Here are the best times listed for the M6 in the 1/4 mile.

http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.ph...ame=Compare%21

The M6 does not show up until page four and runs a full second slower and traps 5-7mph below the modified E55. Is the E55 really that inferior?

waxking1

I'm not sure I buy the HP gearing argument as the reason the M6 was faster at high speeds. I don't know offhand what each gear max speed is for the E55, or what gear the E55 was in when the M6 passed it.

I just did a search for some dyno results and I found one done by Fikse which I believe is a Renntech stage 1. Link to thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...highlight=dyno

If you look where the Torque/HP curves meet, he is still generating 450 Rear Wheel HP & Torque at 5250 RPM with Torque decreasing and HP increasing. If the M6 passed the E55 when the E55 was at 4500 rpm, then the E55 would be generating 400 RWHP increasing and 470 RW Torque decreasing. I didn't see the Kleeman K4 dyno, but I assume it would be more than this.

How low do the RPMs go with the gear change from 3rd to 4th? The slower gear change could cause some difference but not that much.

M&M

Imp, the crux of the matter is that you say the M6 is not stock cos it is "faster" than another M6 in another video relative to some other car.

So I guess it all boils down to this. Do you have proof that it is not stock?

Improviz

CarS, not car. VideoS, not video. Three, to be exact.

You really are a case, you know that? Who do you think is fooled by these constant attempts to obfuscate and misrepresent? Are you really dumb enough to believe that people aren't actually reading the posts, that somehow they're only going to read only yours, and ignore the posts to which you're responding?

I mean, really: not that you have a snowball's chance in hell of doing it here anyhow after all of your previous shenanigans, but if you are trying to make yourself seem remotely credible, I would submit that repeatedly, blatantly misrepresenting what others have written, in plain view of what they *have* written, is an astonishlingly stupid way of going about it.

Do you have any proof that it is?

It all boils down to this: people can take a look at how honest Gustav is in this post:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/125711-gustav-hypocrite.html

Then, they can take a look at his videos, and then they can take a look at how well other M5s and M6s fared against the cars the Gustav M6 defeated.

And then, they can decide for themselves.

K2 vs modded M5: M5 jumps on it first, K2 still reels him in like a fish:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...14243445275051

Video of 996 TT running an M6:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...841547904&q=m6

Gustav's video of a 996 TT running a "stock" M6:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...205155527&q=m6

Video of stock SL55 (a tad slower than an E55) with 20" rims running a stock M5, twice, from 60-210 km/h. With somewhat dramatically different results than Gustav got against a MODDED E55:
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...5a00acf91e.htm

Improviz

You made a few claims in that last post, and when I asked you to respond, you ignored my questions. Here they are again:

1) what did you mean when you stated that "circumstances contrived to make a certain car faster than the other" in the videos I posted?

2) what proof of this do you have?

3) what proof do you have that, as you claimed, the Kleeman guys "inspected" the M6 after the run in the video?

E55 RUSS

Well...I beleive it this video also...since I raced tuned M6 many times...

I assuming I have around 600HP...and I dont have best ECU yet...

Had many rolling starts with Hamman M6 567 HP would start pulling on me (depends on the run) 220-240 !!!

In 1/4 mile without M6 without LC has NO chance...I even spank C6 ZO6...

In Drag race ZO6 would only pull on me after 240 also....

M&M

Imp, nice speech. I ask you again for proof that the M6 is not stock.

If you don't have any then STFU! I don't have to prove it's stock because no-one but you claims it to be modified. So the onus is on you to prove it.

Any comparing videos from different continents with different spec cars, different drivers, different fuels, etc, doesn't count as proof. I also have some videos if you want to use videos as proof.

Finnish C32

s

and you dont have any extra-cooling, which means that your HP goes down about every second. K4 doesnt do that (at least anything near stock car with pulleys) and you have also less hp already than K4 car, and Hamann M6 had 50hp more, so something is baaadly wrong in this video.

sorry my bad english, but i hope you guys got the point

peterj

That's pretty much what they got in the K4-M6 video. They floor it at 00:41, at 00:59-01:00 gustav says 250 - so about 18-19s.

KLEEMANN E 55 K4 - 640 hp (Kleeman official)
0-200 km/h (0-124 mph): 11,8 seconds

BMW M6 Coupé - 507 PS (sport auto 07/2005)
0 - 200 km/h 12,8 s

BoBcanada

this data doesnt mean jack they did the rolling start not from 0 !

Ahmed

You have got to be kidding me with that statement! Right?

Maybe you should call up Pirelli and ask them what their MOTO is! Or maybe open up a dictionary and see the difference between the words "power" and "performance"

Finnish C32

there is NOT so big difference between "low" "very low" "high" "very high" "normal" "average" or so tyre pressures that could explain the performance difference. you should know that.

Ahmed

Dude, with all due respect!

Gearing matters! Are you saying that a full blown K4 Kleemann does not require the proper LSD to perform the way it should?

m5_amg_killer

Yeah smoke it guys..hahah go to hell with ur K4
better see the result of the kelleners m5 with ur keelman

blackbenzz

Where are you located? I would love to embarass you in a race!

Improviz

And I ask you again for any proof that it is. I also ask you, again, to answer the following questions about assertions you have made over the course of this thread:

1) what did you mean when you stated that "circumstances contrived to make a certain car faster than the other" in the videos I posted?

2) what proof of this do you have?

3) what proof do you have that, as you claimed, the Kleeman guys "inspected" the M6 after the run in the video?

If you don't have any proof that it is stock, then STFU! You DID make a claim that it is stock, along with the other claims above, and so the onus of proof is certainly on you to prove them. You cannot prove them and you know it, which is why you refuse to answer them and try to avoid them, but people can see what you're doing and why.

Right there, in black and white, you've been busted in four lies (including your former bogus claim to be purchasing an M5). But you carry on in this useless crusade, as though there are actually people here who still find you to be even remotely credible.

As to the M6: I posted videos. People can view them and decide for themselves. They can read my post of Gustav's rather contemptable behavior, and of outright examples of his lying, and decide about his trustworthiness.

Just as they can with yours.

Which is, of course, why you always cite magazine articles from different drivers, on different days, on different continents as proof, yes? And is why you've done this in dozens and dozens of posts, here and on numerous other automobile enthusiast forums in your infinite quest to promote BMWs to the masses, yes?

You are a walking double-standard, to be sure. Thank you for providing such concrete examples of your credibility in a simple, nicely-wrapped little package.

ChicagoX

Typing furiously away in Grandma's basement, sans drivers license.

TopGun32

you must be a very educated person. You are representing BMW enthusiasts very poorly and they should be ashamed of you.

stick around troll.. and post meaningfu, informative comments.