63 all models BEST 1/4, 1/8
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E63 AMG
Sorry Jim but that proecdure is 100% flawed and will yield only skewed numbers. Anyone that's been tuned by us or even other tuners such as Renntech (aka rarfinancial) will tell you the tune isn't optimal for 200 miles. The first 30-40 being especially critical to how quickly the units learn--if not beat upon in manual mode it will take longer than 200 miles.
I am going to have to agree with you on this one. All tunes I have ever had have some minor initial impact, but have always had to put a couple hundred miles on a tune to realize its maximum potential.
You would really want to test this on separate days to get those additional miles.
Since you probably already know how your car has been running off your original ECU you should just go ahead and put the new one in and break it in. See if your times at the next track event break your best times from before and by how much. Just an idea IMO.
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2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
I been quiet here awhile but im going to officially say im good for at least an 11.2 when i come out again in say MArch - April.
I had the 11.4 on my 9th run in a row!
only stopping to swap tires - first time to the drag strip in 15 yrs and a slammed suspension and 1100 miles on the motor.
I'll have the proper tires a better ride height and a more broken in motor.
and maybe some more tricks up my sleeve.
But it will prob. be moot by then Jim will prob. be running 9's by March.
I def. left some on the table.
I had the 11.4 on my 9th run in a row!
only stopping to swap tires - first time to the drag strip in 15 yrs and a slammed suspension and 1100 miles on the motor.
I'll have the proper tires a better ride height and a more broken in motor.
and maybe some more tricks up my sleeve.
But it will prob. be moot by then Jim will prob. be running 9's by March.
I def. left some on the table.
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'09 C63 AMG
John, your car is FAST! I was super impressed at MIR. Why don't you head down to Houston on Jan 24th for the track day I set up? Winter has set in in Chicago as I'm sure it has in your neck of the woods as well and I can't wait until spring to go 10's so I rented the track. I'm thinking about going road racing the following day, that would be two great days of racing and I'm sure we could find some time Saturday night to hit a club or something.
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Sorry Jim but that proecdure is 100% flawed and will yield only skewed numbers. Anyone that's been tuned by us or even other tuners such as Renntech (aka rarfinancial) will tell you the tune isn't optimal for 200 miles. The first 30-40 being especially critical to how quickly the units learn--if not beat upon in manual mode it will take longer than 200 miles.
I agree with Mo in that taking the average of a number of runs with both ECUs (fully learned) on different nights is the best overall way to test tune A v tune B.
Again I applaud your enthusiasim but the results will be anything but concrete if the above method is used.
I agree with Mo in that taking the average of a number of runs with both ECUs (fully learned) on different nights is the best overall way to test tune A v tune B.
Again I applaud your enthusiasim but the results will be anything but concrete if the above method is used.
I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.
But to say SORRY..
, and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...
So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...
Jim
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E63 AMG
To Everyone following this thread,
I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.
But to say SORRY.., and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.
Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...
So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...
Jim
I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.
But to say SORRY..
, and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...
So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...
Jim
GL with your findings....
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
To Everyone following this thread,
I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.
But to say SORRY.., and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.
Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...
So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...
Jim
I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.
But to say SORRY..
, and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...
So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...
Jim
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'09 C63 AMG
To Everyone following this thread,
I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.
I have chosen to maintain a neutral "Higher Ground" No Opinion, here on the Forum, until the ECU testing is completed.
And add to that fact, I'm also one of the most consistent ET drivers you'll ever meet on a drag strip will only add to the real numbers achieved.
Jim, in all honesty, records are not set by making 33 passes in one day. That may be how you drive your car but you're leaving .2 and 1.5-2mph in it by not letting it cool off. When ECTs go over 190F the ECU starts pulling timing, both stock and with our tuning, except with our tuning, more timing gets pulled since there's more base/advance in there anyway.
But to say SORRY.., and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.
, and start casting doubt on "Back to Back" ECU testing before learning of the results, says volumes to many on the Forum.
I preach the same to all our customers including you many times, 30-40 hard miles in manual then the rest (up to 200 total) hard in sport. Do not test until then.
You simply can't swap ECUs at the track and see the true potential of either, again it's just a fact that cannot be denied.
Andy, The testing may show great results for the MHP ECU tune...
This much rings true doing both the uncorrected and corrected math.
You ran at ATCO with N/A cars that also ran at MIR and were running .2 and 1-2mph slower than they had the week earlier in MD. Meaning you're within a tenth of a second and less than 1mph than the two quickest/fastest CLK 63 BSs with your mods plus a complete longtube to tailipe full exhaust, and they made less than 10 passes at the entire event...
What exactly were you expecting?
So until then, let's stop all the Bench Racing and posturing on one side or the other until we all know what the results are...
Jim
Jim
Nevertheless, do what you want.
At this point I'd like to offer you a refund in exchange for us taking you back to stock, you obviously aren't happy with your ECU/TCU gains, as such you can always run stock again or maybe try a PC tune? We have all the objective and accurate CLK BS 63 data we need at this point.
Thanks
Last edited by MHP; Dec 9, 2008 at 01:47 PM.
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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Quote:
I hate to break this to you, but results have been and will continue to come in regardless of whether or not you attempt to complete the flawed test above. I don't mean this in a disrespectful manner but you posting said results would just result in more misinformation on this site, which we definitely don't need.
Nevertheless, do what you want.
At this point I'd like to offer you a refund in exchange for us taking you back to stock, you obviously aren't happy with your ECU/TCU gains, as such you can always run stock again or maybe try a PC tune? We have all the objective and accurate CLK BS 63 data we need at this point.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Andy,
Let me mull over the generous offer to put me back to stock, with a full refund, as I'm out of town on business this week, and I'll get back to you...
Jim
I hate to break this to you, but results have been and will continue to come in regardless of whether or not you attempt to complete the flawed test above. I don't mean this in a disrespectful manner but you posting said results would just result in more misinformation on this site, which we definitely don't need.
Nevertheless, do what you want.
At this point I'd like to offer you a refund in exchange for us taking you back to stock, you obviously aren't happy with your ECU/TCU gains, as such you can always run stock again or maybe try a PC tune? We have all the objective and accurate CLK BS 63 data we need at this point.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Andy,
Let me mull over the generous offer to put me back to stock, with a full refund, as I'm out of town on business this week, and I'll get back to you...
Jim
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
I'm not really sure what is going on here and the last thing I want to do is get involved in a pissing contest with two forum members that I really like. Jim, my ability to read between the lines is pretty good, I am taking from all this that you are un-happy with your MHP tune, correct? What are you un-happy about? Your 11.7 e/t is pretty darn impressive for a car which is otherwise bone stock (at least to the best of my knowledge), over 2/10th's quicker than your previous best e/t you had posted if I'm not mistaken. 11.7 puts you 4th on the 63 list, and you have the fewest mods of any of us. I would be proud of that time, hell you even beat the CLS 63 that was running a 100 shot of NOS.
I hope you guys can work things out and come to an agreement.
I hope you guys can work things out and come to an agreement.
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From: Hollywood CA
2011 twin turboed prius
I'm not really sure what is going on here and the last thing I want to do is get involved in a pissing contest with two forum members that I really like. Jim, my ability to read between the lines is pretty good, I am taking from all this that you are un-happy with your MHP tune, correct? What are you un-happy about? Your 11.7 e/t is pretty darn impressive for a car which is otherwise bone stock (at least to the best of my knowledge), over 2/10th's quicker than your previous best e/t you had posted if I'm not mistaken. 11.7 puts you 4th on the 63 list, and you have the fewest mods of any of us. I would be proud of that time, hell you even beat the CLS 63 that was running a 100 shot of NOS.
I hope you guys can work things out and come to an agreement.
I hope you guys can work things out and come to an agreement.
Maybe we are all reading too much into this and James simply want's imperical data to further solidify the MHP tune results.
Andy has done the right thing by offering a full refund and stock flash, really no one loses here as the data will be at the very least interesting and likely help MHP after results are in. Seems like most MHP cars have done well but as with all tuning there will be unsatisfied customers etc..
So do we all agree the ECU needs to be "adapted" prior to use?
I know my ecu , seems stock although tuned needs retraining after the wife drives
Jim great post , and attitude.
After Saturday the 13th hopefully the "list" has some new elevens
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From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
I'm not really sure what is going on here and the last thing I want to do is get involved in a pissing contest with two forum members that I really like. Jim, my ability to read between the lines is pretty good, I am taking from all this that you are un-happy with your MHP tune, correct? What are you un-happy about? Your 11.7 e/t is pretty darn impressive for a car which is otherwise bone stock (at least to the best of my knowledge), over 2/10th's quicker than your previous best e/t you had posted if I'm not mistaken. 11.7 puts you 4th on the 63 list, and you have the fewest mods of any of us. I would be proud of that time, hell you even beat the CLS 63 that was running a 100 shot of NOS.
I hope you guys can work things out and come to an agreement.
I hope you guys can work things out and come to an agreement.
I wish my car would be as consistent as his. Everytime I run the car back to back, I lose 0.1 seconds in E.T. up to about 0.4 seconds 
then it stablizes. I think the average of his runs before were 12.0 while the average of his runs now are 11.7 However, his test would still be awesome to see...... it will show how much the ECU adaptations affect (or doesn't affect) the performance. It should also give a good idea on the difference between the two tunes.
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Hey Josh and Andy, take a look at this...another C63 running mid 11's
Josh, make sure you get this guy to send you timeslips. I think that makes 10 63's in the 11's now after you update the list with this weekends times?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...s-122-mph.html
Josh, make sure you get this guy to send you timeslips. I think that makes 10 63's in the 11's now after you update the list with this weekends times?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...s-122-mph.html
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'09 C63 AMG
Hey Josh and Andy, take a look at this...another C63 running mid 11's
Josh, make sure you get this guy to send you timeslips. I think that makes 10 63's in the 11's now after you update the list with this weekends times?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...s-122-mph.html
Josh, make sure you get this guy to send you timeslips. I think that makes 10 63's in the 11's now after you update the list with this weekends times?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...s-122-mph.html
He's running a MKB ECU, filters, and headers and just removed his secondary cats prior to saturdays racing.
Hopefully he can make MIR in the spring.
Josh,
Keith and I were talking about our 1/8 mile traps. He seemed to be in the 93-94 range while I was in the 95-96 range despite some of his 1/4 traps going 120-122. I think the stock exhaust (specifically the 2 3/8" neckdown in the OEM exhaust manifolds and 4 cats) are playing a fairly significant role in choking my car in the backhalf.
Last edited by MHP; Dec 15, 2008 at 07:22 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Hollywood CA
2011 twin turboed prius
Keith is a super nice guy, congrats to him for some great passes!
He's running a MKB ECU, filters, and headers and just removed his secondary cats prior to saturdays racing.
Hopefully he can make MIR in the spring.
Josh,
Keith and I were talking about our 1/8 mile traps. He seemed to be in the 93-94 range while I was in the 95-96 range despite some of his 1/4 traps going 120-122. I think the stock exhaust (specifically the 2 3/8" neckdown in the OEM exhaust manifolds and 4 cats) are playing a fairly significant role in choking my car in the backhalf.
He's running a MKB ECU, filters, and headers and just removed his secondary cats prior to saturdays racing.
Hopefully he can make MIR in the spring.
Josh,
Keith and I were talking about our 1/8 mile traps. He seemed to be in the 93-94 range while I was in the 95-96 range despite some of his 1/4 traps going 120-122. I think the stock exhaust (specifically the 2 3/8" neckdown in the OEM exhaust manifolds and 4 cats) are playing a fairly significant role in choking my car in the backhalf.
Amazing just amazing. pretty soon I wont even be on the flippin list, Rick wheres your slips brah
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Josh, this is your damn list and you're not even in the top 10 or in the 11's yet...you better get going boy! Maybe I'll let you draft me at Famosa, would that count? 
Thread Starter
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From: Hollywood CA
2011 twin turboed prius
yeah man Im not feeling so good now....Im gonna really need to step it up.
I guess if you drive my car to the 11's at least my car will be on the list !!
I am fairly certain I can reclaim the CLS crown at least with a few choice m o d s.
Man I need to update the list but I dont wanna knock my car that far down LOL
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From: S.D Cali
CLS63
Josh, How are these #'s with stock tune..... and crap 60' 1.9/ all day
1/8 96.04
1/4 11.75@122.86
NOS RUN/Just the tip lots more left
Puts This CLS63 #2 on the NOS list
1/4 12.04@117.27 N/A
1/4 12.08@118.26 N/A
WITH STOCK ECU
SHOULD PUT US UP ON THE LIST
All these while hot lapping. Only cooled the car down twice all day at Famoso
1/8 96.04
1/4 11.75@122.86
NOS RUN/Just the tip lots more left
Puts This CLS63 #2 on the NOS list
1/4 12.04@117.27 N/A
1/4 12.08@118.26 N/A
WITH STOCK ECU
SHOULD PUT US UP ON THE LIST
All these while hot lapping. Only cooled the car down twice all day at Famoso
Thread Starter
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From: Hollywood CA
2011 twin turboed prius
Josh, How are these #'s with stock tune..... and crap 60' 1.9/ all day
1/8 96.04
1/4 11.75@122.86
NOS RUN/Just the tip lots more left
Puts This CLS63 #2 on the NOS list
1/4 12.04@117.27 N/A
1/4 12.08@118.26 N/A
WITH STOCK ECU
SHOULD PUT US UP ON THE LIST
All these while hot lapping. Only cooled the car down twice all day at Famoso
1/8 96.04
1/4 11.75@122.86
NOS RUN/Just the tip lots more left
Puts This CLS63 #2 on the NOS list
1/4 12.04@117.27 N/A
1/4 12.08@118.26 N/A
WITH STOCK ECU
SHOULD PUT US UP ON THE LIST
All these while hot lapping. Only cooled the car down twice all day at Famoso
Definately there is a few ticks left in the CLS.
even a 1.85 60 gets you in the 11's
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
yep our cars were just dead off the line, mine also 1.9x 60fts. I think you trapped 118.6x on a run as well?? I thought I saw two of your slips in 118 range. Anyway take a pic and email the slips or scan em so I can get all the data updated .
Definately there is a few ticks left in the CLS.
even a 1.85 60 gets you in the 11's
Definately there is a few ticks left in the CLS.
even a 1.85 60 gets you in the 11's
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From: NYC/South Beach
Twin Turbo C6, S65,
I been quiet here awhile but im going to officially say im good for at least an 11.2 when i come out again in say MArch - April.
I had the 11.4 on my 9th run in a row!
only stopping to swap tires - first time to the drag strip in 15 yrs and a slammed suspension and 1100 miles on the motor.
I'll have the proper tires a better ride height and a more broken in motor.
and maybe some more tricks up my sleeve.
But it will prob. be moot by then Jim will prob. be running 9's by March.
I def. left some on the table.
I had the 11.4 on my 9th run in a row!
only stopping to swap tires - first time to the drag strip in 15 yrs and a slammed suspension and 1100 miles on the motor.
I'll have the proper tires a better ride height and a more broken in motor.
and maybe some more tricks up my sleeve.
But it will prob. be moot by then Jim will prob. be running 9's by March.
I def. left some on the table.
I saw the video and it looked like the ride height worked quite well since there was very little squat when you launched. I think that helped you run that record breaking time that you did.
How about running some NOS? HP/TQ in a bottle!
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Josh, my run was so close to what I had before, so I don't think it's worth it to update my spot. Maybe next time, I can shave another 0.1 or so if DA is good and it doesn't rain.
