WIDE front tires stop understeer.
06-23-2007, 11:33 AM
#1
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2017 S63 Coupe Iridium Silver
WIDE front tires stop understeer.
For my last circuit track day I mounted Dunlop semi slicks 265/35/18 on 9"
ET39 stock rear split spokes (actual sectional width 258mm) and put them on the front and the same tires on 9.5" ET33 SL55 five-spoke wheels on the rear (sectional width 262mm due to a wider rear rim). The improvement in handling and grip was incredible. Previously I used 235/40/18 on stock 8" rims up front.
My car clocked the fastest times out of 30 cars around a 2km Wakefield Park circuit. My best time of 72.52 sec was almost matched by a very fast driver in Audi RS4 on stock P-Zeros, with a best time of 73 sec. Had he used the same Dunlop tires, his Quattro would have beaten me for sure. Most other cars were 77-80 sec. This wide set up eliminated understeer and for the first time induced a mild oversteer around the very twisty circuit.
Jangy was right, we all need wider rubber up front! He uses 275/35/18 all around. My street 255/35/19 RE050A's are 256 mm wide so, I guess, I am not quite there yet, but close to my track tires.
On a sad note, my front calipers are beginning to change color to light gold! That is somethimg you cannot buy, it has to be earned... at least that's what I keep telling myself as I contemplate a respray job!
ET39 stock rear split spokes (actual sectional width 258mm) and put them on the front and the same tires on 9.5" ET33 SL55 five-spoke wheels on the rear (sectional width 262mm due to a wider rear rim). The improvement in handling and grip was incredible. Previously I used 235/40/18 on stock 8" rims up front.
My car clocked the fastest times out of 30 cars around a 2km Wakefield Park circuit. My best time of 72.52 sec was almost matched by a very fast driver in Audi RS4 on stock P-Zeros, with a best time of 73 sec. Had he used the same Dunlop tires, his Quattro would have beaten me for sure. Most other cars were 77-80 sec. This wide set up eliminated understeer and for the first time induced a mild oversteer around the very twisty circuit.
Jangy was right, we all need wider rubber up front! He uses 275/35/18 all around. My street 255/35/19 RE050A's are 256 mm wide so, I guess, I am not quite there yet, but close to my track tires.
On a sad note, my front calipers are beginning to change color to light gold! That is somethimg you cannot buy, it has to be earned... at least that's what I keep telling myself as I contemplate a respray job!
Last edited by Rafal; 06-23-2007 at 12:06 PM.
06-24-2007, 09:42 PM
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2015 S212
Sweet!! Are you running the '07 SL550 rims in the rear? I'f so, You can shave about 4mm off of each and run 295/30 in the rear.
I've been running the Advan A048 265/35 in the front and I like it lots. i could never go back to 245s
I've been running the Advan A048 265/35 in the front and I like it lots. i could never go back to 245s
06-24-2007, 10:45 PM
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'03 E55
I know this has been discussed somewhere before, but are the '07 SL550 wheels identical in appearance to the stock E55 wheels? I'm assuming from his pictures that's the case.
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02-28-2013, 01:56 AM
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08 E63 AMG
For my last circuit track day I mounted Dunlop semi slicks 265/35/18 on 9"
ET39 stock rear split spokes (actual sectional width 258mm) and put them on the front and the same tires on 9.5" ET33 SL55 five-spoke wheels on the rear (sectional width 262mm due to a wider rear rim). The improvement in handling and grip was incredible. Previously I used 235/40/18 on stock 8" rims up front.
My car clocked the fastest times out of 30 cars around a 2km Wakefield Park circuit. My best time of 72.52 sec was almost matched by a very fast driver in Audi RS4 on stock P-Zeros, with a best time of 73 sec. Had he used the same Dunlop tires, his Quattro would have beaten me for sure. Most other cars were 77-80 sec. This wide set up eliminated understeer and for the first time induced a mild oversteer around the very twisty circuit.
Jangy was right, we all need wider rubber up front! He uses 275/35/18 all around. My street 255/35/19 RE050A's are 256 mm wide so, I guess, I am not quite there yet, but close to my track tires.
On a sad note, my front calipers are beginning to change color to light gold! That is somethimg you cannot buy, it has to be earned... at least that's what I keep telling myself as I contemplate a respray job!
ET39 stock rear split spokes (actual sectional width 258mm) and put them on the front and the same tires on 9.5" ET33 SL55 five-spoke wheels on the rear (sectional width 262mm due to a wider rear rim). The improvement in handling and grip was incredible. Previously I used 235/40/18 on stock 8" rims up front.
My car clocked the fastest times out of 30 cars around a 2km Wakefield Park circuit. My best time of 72.52 sec was almost matched by a very fast driver in Audi RS4 on stock P-Zeros, with a best time of 73 sec. Had he used the same Dunlop tires, his Quattro would have beaten me for sure. Most other cars were 77-80 sec. This wide set up eliminated understeer and for the first time induced a mild oversteer around the very twisty circuit.
Jangy was right, we all need wider rubber up front! He uses 275/35/18 all around. My street 255/35/19 RE050A's are 256 mm wide so, I guess, I am not quite there yet, but close to my track tires.
On a sad note, my front calipers are beginning to change color to light gold! That is somethimg you cannot buy, it has to be earned... at least that's what I keep telling myself as I contemplate a respray job!
and rear 18x10 ET35 (285/35/18) . I hope I feel the same way as you did.
A lot of guys that I know who never took the car to track like you, keep saying " blah blah its going to make your steering move crazy when driving over uneven surface ~ " I hope I can prove them wrong ~
02-28-2013, 08:31 AM
#10
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I'm going to try this set up ~ I'm getting a set of Front 18X9 ET32(265/40/18)
and rear 18x10 ET35 (285/35/18) . I hope I feel the same way as you did.
A lot of guys that I know who never took the car to track like you, keep saying " blah blah its going to make your steering move crazy when driving over uneven surface ~ " I hope I can prove them wrong ~
and rear 18x10 ET35 (285/35/18) . I hope I feel the same way as you did.
A lot of guys that I know who never took the car to track like you, keep saying " blah blah its going to make your steering move crazy when driving over uneven surface ~ " I hope I can prove them wrong ~
As for the folks giving you bad information about tire widths - ha....The wider tire up front will definitely help with handling. Equally important is the alignment. Toe plays a hug role in turn-in and sometimes if you have too much toe out the car can feel twitchy (generally a setup for short, autox type tracks).
08-13-2013, 11:05 PM
#14
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This was the thread I was looking for.
I've tried asking this too but members usually say that running same set all around is equally bad as running staggered setup on a 4matic ride.
Now any traction control issues? or drivability condition deterioration on a DD ? track I can understand cuz it's temporary. What about ride height situation ?
any issues with that ?
I've tried asking this too but members usually say that running same set all around is equally bad as running staggered setup on a 4matic ride.
Now any traction control issues? or drivability condition deterioration on a DD ? track I can understand cuz it's temporary. What about ride height situation ?
any issues with that ?
08-16-2013, 10:22 AM
#15
I run 18x9.5 et35 with a 275/35/18 (Hankook RS3) fronts that JUST fits without rubbing including full steering lock. No modifications or rolling needed but car is at factory height.
05-31-2015, 06:36 PM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm not a W211 driver, but this is a topic I rearely see, so thought I'd mention that I run the rears wheels & tires all round. On my W220 S600TT, I have either:
275/35/19 on 9.5's
265/35/20 on 9.5's
You pay your money and take your choice on ride, but I found the benefit to handling was tremendous. It feels ilke the car has lost weight rather than gained grip, which is a great feeling. I thought there would be lots of downsides, like steering kickback, tramlining, road noise and harshness, but on the whole it wasn't too bad. The only exception is with broken surfaces, where the bump is shorter than the tire contact patch, and that causes shocks and shakes that modest tires sponge away. The road noise thing seems to depend on the type of tyre rather than the size.
I've tried lots of different wheel & tire combinations, and what sticks out is the pointlessness of staggered configurations. Away from mid-engined cars, there doesn't seem to be any benefit whatsoever in having the rear tires wider - you just get all the disadvantages and none of the advantages. And its mostly the other way round for wide front wheels. My impression is that there's just as much room for wide tires at the front as there is at the rear, and 9.5" rims all round is a very good starting point.
Its a heavy car, and needs lots of rubber.
Nick
275/35/19 on 9.5's
265/35/20 on 9.5's
You pay your money and take your choice on ride, but I found the benefit to handling was tremendous. It feels ilke the car has lost weight rather than gained grip, which is a great feeling. I thought there would be lots of downsides, like steering kickback, tramlining, road noise and harshness, but on the whole it wasn't too bad. The only exception is with broken surfaces, where the bump is shorter than the tire contact patch, and that causes shocks and shakes that modest tires sponge away. The road noise thing seems to depend on the type of tyre rather than the size.
I've tried lots of different wheel & tire combinations, and what sticks out is the pointlessness of staggered configurations. Away from mid-engined cars, there doesn't seem to be any benefit whatsoever in having the rear tires wider - you just get all the disadvantages and none of the advantages. And its mostly the other way round for wide front wheels. My impression is that there's just as much room for wide tires at the front as there is at the rear, and 9.5" rims all round is a very good starting point.
Its a heavy car, and needs lots of rubber.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 06-01-2015 at 08:40 AM.
06-01-2015, 02:40 AM
#17
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This is good and all but the real solution is to sort out the ridiculous mercedes factory wheel aligment settings as discussed in other threads and modify the front sway bar and rear if you can be bothered.
With a more square tire setup on top of a proper wheel alignment and swaybars I reckon even a good RS4/m5 would be struggling against one of these setup right even on airmatic.
With a more square tire setup on top of a proper wheel alignment and swaybars I reckon even a good RS4/m5 would be struggling against one of these setup right even on airmatic.
06-02-2015, 07:49 AM
#19
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06-02-2015, 08:45 AM
#20
Member
I like it really much. 
Speed in corners is noticable higher.
It's a real problem to get good tires for the front axle in 20", which are suitable for comfort and top speed.
I use Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.
Speed in corners is noticable higher.
It's a real problem to get good tires for the front axle in 20", which are suitable for comfort and top speed.
I use Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.
