Zod

Would just like to discuss ECUs .

Just wondering as i have come across some people that have said its great! and others that say meh very little gain and is a gimic with increases throttle response (sprint booster effect).

Now facts i have gathered:
Things you can get done with ecu

speed limit removed
load limit removed
hp gain....

I know that if you have a pulley mod an ecu tune is very good to have and mandatory to a degree

BUT

• What are the results with stock cars?
• is it year dependent?)
• effect of ecu with header and TB combo?

what are the numbers that one can expect from such a mod?
dino numbers would be much appreciated

cheers in advance

V12Godspeed

I hear 15-20 HP, ....

waxking1

I wonder if there is any gain on a stock vehicle with ECU tune only. If there were more power here it seems like Mercedes would have found it to begin with. Maybe if you tune for a higher octane. I could see where if Mercedes has put in some sort of limiter on the low end that it could be removed but I think the peak HP would still be the same.

Also if it is only 10 to 20 HP at the crank it would be hard to prove. You would really need to have two ECU's for the same vehicle and test at the same day on the same dyno with proper cooldown between runs.

I'm no tuner and I'm only going by what I've read here and on some other forums, but without other mods, I don't believe an ECU tune would do much. I would like to see some dyno's from forum members who aren't selling anything prove this wrong.

55wagon

I will be using Veloce ECU Tuning.

tigerlam92

Load limit removed
High Speed limit removed
To me those should be bare minimum and should be throw in at no extra cost.

I would hope that an ECU tune will entail - remapping the timing table for both WOT and part throttle, remapping the fuel delivery across the whole RPM range, remapping the shift points, increasing rev limit to a higher but still safe limit, deleting some codes or ECU checks like secondary cats/O2, maybe readjusting the throttle by wire and brake by wire to make them have a lesser initial delay, etc.

I had tune the OBDII for the last five years and worked with many tuners through the years. Everyone claim a great deal and initially couldn't really deliver and as years go by they learned. This is similar to what I am seeing now.

I would recommend, if you are after a great tune, ask for a the dyno of the before and after ECU tune prior to signing up so you can really know what you are getting. If it is in conjunction with a pulley ask for that. Keep in mind that many get an ECU not for power but for driveability too (smoother, or more aggressive like a sprint booster).

I tried looking through many previous dyno charts with tune ECU and their A/F ratio graph is just as poor, all around 11 or lower. Only one dyno chart had a decently good A/F and he thinks he doesn't even have a tune. For more peak power and more area under the power curve, at the minimum they need to be able adjust timing and fuel.

Let me know when you find a great tune, cause I also want one.

waxking1

Load limit removed? Are we certain there is one? I think for most 155mph should be enough but I can understand wanting this removed. Isn't the transmission controlled by a separate TCU in the E55? Is maybe 10 to 20 crank HP worth $1000 to $2000 or more. To some it may be. Can a tune give a permanent sneaky ECU reset effect? With no other mods how would you want the transmission shift points changed?

Vadim @ FD

Here is a stock E55. Before and after ECU tune.

Adding timing and leaning out the A/F mixture slightly yields arouns 20 RWHP/20RWTQ.

Zod

load limit was something that was introduced with the secondary air pump recall i belive. Lots of 03 owners complained and recorded poor dyno numbers after it. I belive Ted actuly recorded it on paper showing the load limit engajing.
Some have said that it has no effect on 06 models, but i am not sure

cheers vadim for the charts.
um how can you calculate rwhp from a crank hp number for 55k engines?

Thanks

SteveFox

*Multiplying* crank hp by.82 for automatic transmission will give you rwhp.

tigerlam92

Thanks Vadim that is a very nice increase.

Again, the post ECU tune has A/F still quite rich at 11.5-10.83. Did you try leaning it to near 12 to 12.5? I have always found for boosted application 12-12.5 is good and still safe enough, but on our E55 I have not seen any A/F in that range yet. I suspect maybe the power will drop because I think our car likes it a little rich.?

Vadim @ FD

438/0.83 = 528HP. AMG underrated stock E55, it is more like 500-505HP.

Too lean for CA 91 street gas. You can get to 12:1 with 93, but it is only 3-4 more RWHP.

DNJ

I have recently had a ECU remap via DMS automotive. The increase in bhp and torque measured at the crank is 40 & 40 respectively. I live in London UK and use 97 octane fuel (BP Ultimate).

DMS have offices in the US. Their web address is: www.dmsautomotive.com

waxking1

Isn't octane rated differently in the UK than it is in the US? If so, what would 97 octane in the UK be equal to in the US? I can understand how significant gains could be realized with ECU mapping for a higher octane fuel. Also do you have before and after dynos? How did you measure HP at the crank?

tigerlam92

I see. Thanks for the information.

--Hugh

IngenereAMG

We can either raise or remove the speed limiter...client's choice.

With stock cars with ECU and K&N filters we have posted dynos with 50+hp increases.

We have a client who has done our stage 2 ECU tune, who posted that he ran against an identical car with Renntech ECU/pulley, and he outran him.

The last time we spoke, he added CF airbox and headers to our ECU work and he dynoing at just under 600hp!

jangy

tis true.

Zod

tis true on 06's not been effected by it, or are you just agreeing to the genral paragraph

I ask because you are an 06 to .

as for the ecu tune 50hp from ecu alone seems high!!! from what others offer

also did'nt a few users mention that the k&n filters were no good on our cars?
something to do with making the engin bay hotter if i recall due to the design ?
or was that on the M cars can not remeber

Zod

hmm looked at their site and found this

''Also available is a more radical upgrade, while still keeping total reliability. This gives an additional peak of over 50 bhp and 100 Nm, the most impressive part is the difference in the already colossal mid range. At 3500 Rpm an additional 100Nm+ of torque and 80Bhp+ is available. For this in addition to the engine management Re-map, modifications to the supercharger are required. There is also an optional performance exhaust with sport CAT's.''

what do they do to the supercharger

Also your numbers where on a stock 55k or a 63?

Also vadim, does ECU tuning get better with mods, or does it just help them all work togther?

Thanks

RoydRage

Yeah sure...

Are you ever going to stop using these forums to hock your stuff... I mean ENOUGH

RoydRage

Zod

Chill mate, he is replying to the info i asked for .
Few people are going for his ECU and so far happy campers from what i read. Patiently awaiting my self to see results .

IngenereAMG, do you have an dino graphs of a stock 55k with before and after dino numbers please ?

thanks Khalid

Fikse

come on, if your going to make outrageous claims, back it up..... I haven't seen these "posted" dynos....

RoydRage

And even that doesn't really tell you anything unless you personally know the car/cars, and what was done to it/them. You could do a stock car, and then compare it to and ECU/Pulley Cooling mod, and say "Hey!" "This car just has my New Great ECU flash!"

Now I'm not insinuating that... BUT, I know one thing. I don't believe 50HP from software alone. And if a car with an ECU tune alone beat a car with an ECU tune AND a Pulley,(something that will really build HP by building boost), than that car might have had a bad IC pump.

I've been racing Motorcycles since I was 9 years old, and cars since I was 16. I have built more race motors than I can count. I am an award winning NHRA "PRO" Class Drag Racer, I have Road Raced Bikes, Motocrossed, I have gone 7's in the Quarter mile, more importantly I've built all these motors, And I can tell you I *REALLY* Doubt 50hp from software.

I motor is an air pump, nothing more... You make HP by getting Air Into the motor, and getting it out more efficiently. You do this... By forcing more air in; Supercharger/Turbocharger), Porting cylinder heads, increasing Volumetric efficiency, (combustion chamber shape, Increased spark, etc), Larger throttle body/Carb, Camshafts... This works by increasing the amount of lift at the valve, and Keeping the valve open longer through the stroke, but also makes the car very peaky, and ruff running at low speeds... Why? because you are over rich at those low speeds and have a contaminated intake charge...

Optimum intake charge speed is 275fps. Now when you port and make a surface area bigger, velocity goes down... the only thing will increase it again is RPM/Volume, that is why porting goes with Camshaft profile.

Cams increase power by having a supercharging affect, but this only works at high RPM because with a long duration cam you are keeping the Intake valves open as the Piston approaches TDC on the power stroke, Now at high RPM this works because the fuel has so much velocity, It keeps cramming itself into the combustion chamber even though the piston is trying to push it back out! BUT, at low speeds the piston does this, and the fuel charge goes back into the ports, and often plenum getting re-richened. Also exhaust can get back into the combustion chamber at low speeds contaminating the intake charge, that is why wild cams run ruff at low speeds.

Now along with headers, and exhaust mods that aid in getting spent fuel out of the motor, and help evac the combustion chamber making room for more fuel/air, and purifying the charge, these are some of the things that really boost HP.

Now what I guess I'm saying TUNING alone can account for a slight improvement. Vadim claims 20hp... This it totally believable... 50HP? NO!

Guess what? AMG just AIN'T that bad! How much can you push engine ignition timing and fuel curves? The cars are rich enough stock, so you advance timing, and lean it out till what? You have a hole in the piston?

AMG when building a motor will push those parameters to a level they feel safe with for long term reliability, now is there margin in that? Yes, but they would not throw away that much power, I assure you they're no dummies.

Now I was happy with my Evotech tune, it took away the bad affects of the MB IC pump relay campaign, and gave me a little extra... Something I could feel which thrilled me, so I posted about it... Even there Ingenere had to come on my post, and push his stuff... Do you seed Adam, or Vadim continually doing that? No... They post to help people... All this guy does is (who is a chiropractor), is continually advertise, and push his ECU tune all over these forums... and I'm sick of hearing it, In my opinion his claims are unrealistic, and I don't want to get continually beat over the head with them.

Sorry, but I had to call him on it.

I love this forum, and I like a lot of the people on it... The E55 threads especially... all you guys are devoted, and really into this, and I applaud, and appreciate you!

Best Always,

RoydRage

Rocketman

Most interesting and informative. I have had the same experience with "chip" tuning - mostly on Porsche. Chips do seem to add some HP - mostly due to adjusting the ignition map (i.e. advance etc). My experience is about 10-12 hp on a 205 hp base Porsche engine and 15-17 on a 280 hp base engine (these are crank hp numbers). I would like to hear your comment on the octane rating/timing advance issue as related to cars that are designed for the world - low octane expectation of 89 vs the use of 93 octane that we have available to the people here on the east coast. AMG does a very good job of ECU programing but they are limited to the "lowest common denominator" issue of octane rating. I think this is where ECU tuning has an edge over the factory AMG ecu tune. Comments?

IngenereAMG

WOW! Gotta be a NYer (so am I)...and Royd Rage could be accurate

Anyway, here are a couple of threads made by clients who absolutely love what we have done. I didn't tell him to say that he outran a renntech ECU/pulley.....that is what he reported. Additionally, since the tune, he has added headers and intake.....and he is now dynoing at just under 600hp.

https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-sl63-amg-sl65-amg-r230/210273-kick-ecu-tuning.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-sl63-amg-sl65-amg-r230/211587-veloce-performance-ecu-upgrade-rocks.html

ChicagoX

UK 97 octane is about 92 US (RON+MON/2)