Jon2007E63P30

You can all pour water on me and flame back, but I saw this other post and I will repeat what I said there, here, because I feel strongly about it.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....2&postcount=24

They dropped sponsorship because their is no more business to be a sponsor.

Can't you tell a going out of business sale?

Why not AdamG@Euroelites?? Because there is no euroelites!!!

The fact you can't put 2 and 2 together.

I believe that it was that thread started by Ballzy55 (which he had every right to post), but which was joined by enough members who they had worked hard for, that it demoralized them and ended up putting them out of business. Then MB_Forever started another thread which was just plain foolish.

Silence is what you do when you are under litigation by someone. When someone sues you for damages you do not take it onto a public forum. That's stupid. Sorry they did not put on a good show.

Why don't you go onto the AMG web site and ask them why 55 IC pumps fail and watch what kind of response you get. Or about an ECU re-program in Oct 2006 that detuned a number of AMGs. Almost nothing.

The only thing that Adam could have said was, "We are aware of the complaint and working to resolve it." Did you think he was not???????

So anyone that does not understand that, go pound sand and stay off the streets. Because with as much HP and lack of common sense some of the people are displaying you will end up being a statistic.

There, I have said my peace.

ChicagoX

I'm a bit confused. Are you supporting EE or bashing them?

Thanks for the clarification.

Timeless

ROFL...good question.

My only response is that ADAM instigated this whole thing by saying he was surprised that no one took his side in the whole ordeal...which prompted my reply to him.

MB_Forever

Jon, the thread I started was not taking sides between EuroElites or Ballzy, as I've explained to you in my PMs. Also, please note that my thread was started long before the Ballzy thread closed. Unlike Ballzy's thread which discussed details of the incident, my thread was just gathering general opinions on what happened in a situation like that.

Regarding the litigation issue: do we know for sure litigation is taking place? It may have or may not. Nobody really knows

I think the members that wanted Adam to respond think that Adam should've came here and posted a short statement like this: "due to pending legal action, EuroElites can not comment on the situation"

Or if there was no legal action involved in the first place, but they still didn't want to comment, then maybe state: "EuroElites will not publicly comment on this situation. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us at ....."

Or of course, if there is no legal action and they did want to explain their side, then do so.....

ROCKETW19

come on if he replys or not it wont make him guilt or not. If I call you a *** and you say no im not does that make you not a ***. It dont matter what your responce is that wont make it one way or the other. I know Adam well he was threatend with a law suit and was told not to respond! He droped his sponcership cuzz he was hurt over the things people were saying. Adam wasnt gettin rich selling these parts or tunes he did it for the love of cars and going fast.

MB_Forever

I don't think people hate Adam at all....... in fact, many more love him even after the incident. I think people were just shocked and dissapointed at the situation itself, as they could not figure out what happened because only one side was talking. As a result, everybody came out with a different theory, and it just kept getting worse. If the other side threatened Adam not to talk, then I think Adam should've threatened the other side back not to talk either.

Anyways, the whole thing is behind us now, why is this being revived? Adam will come back stronger than ever. His love of cars and tuning is strong and can handle the strongest of challenges, and I have no doubt that people would still do business with him in the future

Jon2007E63P30

I am not taking sides on the "issue".

I am taking sides that basically this forum ran EE out of town and out of business by indignantly insisting that EE be called out.

These guys are not killer business men. They are passionate car nuts with skills.

This forum sucked that passion out of them by the way many behaved by insisting that the "forum" was owed an answer.

Anyone who has done business with them and wanted an answer could have called them, and I know many did. None of them got on this forum and started giving EEs side of the story because this is not where issues like theirs get resolved.

Mo, you and I PM'ed before. And I know you were not taking sides, but it just caused the flames to be higher and provided more of a venue for the type of activity that demoralized these guys. In fact, my starting this thread would be a bad thing for them if they were still in business. They are not, but I saw the same type of posts calling them out AGAIN and I got frustrated.

Rocketw19 got it right in his post.

neveo

plus 1, i think it stinks how this went down...

SLK55R

I didn't get really involved because it was something EE needed to handle.

I wasn't there so everything I heard was third person ... on the other hand one of my employees WAS there and I think EE got the short end of the stick.

EE wasn't making tons of money ... they did this purely out of their love of fast cars. When you get people slamming them on this forum it pretty much put them out of business.

IMHO its funny how Evotech was getting slammed when you have people here in love with a Shop that doesn't really do any benchmark testing.

HILARIOUS!

To the posters that keep asking us clients to tell all the potential negatives of a tuner, I think its silly. I give all tuners a chance to make up for potential problems. If we all just *****ed I bet every tuner would be out of business.

If anyone honestly thinks that its only Renntech, Evotech, Kleemann customers that don't ***** at everything you are SORELY mistaken.

Could I go and mention a bunch of different products from different vendor's that didn't work, fit, or give results as advertised? Absolutely. But I"m not gonna be washing everyone's dirty laundry on a public forum. If I see a forum member purposely getting screwed I'll pm them.

MB_Forever

Jon, I still strongly believe that Adam's passion and love for our cars is much stronger than just a single bad incident like this. In fact, almost every tuner goes through such a phase even the biggest and most well-known ones.

Would it be better to stay quiet for every bad incident that happens and let people guess? Or would it be better to explain your side for every bad incident? I myself, honostly, don't know the answer, as I don't have the proper experience (27).

Adam, if you're reading this, please put that whole incident behind you and start over. I have no doubt that you will continue to be very successfull

ROCKETW19

for sure 100% stay quite. I used to be a crminal I know If I get caught doing my bad things never talk to the police. same here what ever you say can be used against you by the other sides laywers. Its always best to not give them any ammo. I learned that at 16years old.

zoink

Well, I've talked to Adam a lot lately... but I can't comment anything about the whole issue... just like SLK55R, I was not there during the drama.

I agree the whole thing is ashame. And I also wish Adam said something in the forum (I also told him that in person)... but he chose not to do so and I believe he must've had a reason.

All in all, I still have my faith w/ Evotech and all of Euroelites staff (Adam, Tony, Ryan, etc.). I think there is no problem w/ Evotech/EE in general.... issues w/ Ballzy's, his cousin's, MIG-E55's and sleeperx's cars seem to be isolated issues.

Ballzy and his cousin don't seem to have any more problems despite multiple hard runs on the track... moreover, Ballzy's car seems to run very strong. So my take on Ballzy's issues would be the fail parts were already on their way out, and Evotech tune just made the failure come sooner. This means I don't see anyone's fault in this case (not Ballzy/his cousin, not EE, not Evotech). I guess the whole drama was due to emotional fatigue. The bumper mishap is NOT related to products that EE/Evotech sells.

Higgins' (Roland's) car also got a very strong and healthy dyno. As well as Juicee.... I haven't caught up w/ Rocket's car and Neveo's. But my car feels strong and no problems whatsoever since I got Evotech tune close to 1 year ago.

Timeless

Seriously, go re-read what was posted. ADAM was the one with the snide remark in his post selling off all his parts.

*I* only responded with being dissapointed that he did not respond to the original thread from Ballzy....even if it was something along the lines of "EE cannot comment on this publicly, but we want all of you to know we take care of our clients and their satisfaction 100%."

He can't stay silent through that whole thread and then make a snide remark about it in a classifieds ad without getting a response. Can't have it both ways.

For the record I am as neutral as it gets on who/what is to blame. I was not there so I can only comment on how the situation was handled on this forum.

zoink

Timeless, I'm sure a lot of members (EE customers or not) were disappointed w/ EE's silence to this matter.

I for one asked him to respond... say something neutral like what you described. EE chose not to do so.... I don't know why.... but I'm sure they had their own consideration and we just have to respect that.

MB_Forever

I think you would be correct to stay quiet in a situation like this..... but only if in fact Adam did do a bad or criminal thing, but I believe he didn't. If he would've posted a few facts about the situation, I think he would've been fine. It doesn't have to be any details, but just a simple fact that would've been said in court anyways. I'm sure Ballzy's lawyer advised him of the same thing.

So does someone know for sure if there is any legal matter pending?

I really hope not..... especially given that the two parties seem to have went their separate ways and at least reached a resolution on most of the issues. Ballzy is enjoying his car and Adam is doing his own thing. I think at this point, the bumper damage is the only un-resolved issue, but 90% resolution is better than nothing at all. I wish both parties the best of luck in the future and hope Adam comes back full force

Jon2007E63P30

Is Adam's snide remark. OK, maybe. And now we blame him for making it because he responded to someone who could not figure out what was so obvious in the posts. He is out of business due to the actions of the forum, I might be a little snide too if it happened to me. Which by starting this thread I could also be acused of.

But you also have information.
1)There have been "threats", probably financial and/or legal.
2)There is an issue he acknowledges (which we all damn well knew anyway).
3)He declines to comment (as he should not based on resolving #1 first)

Ted Baldwin

..........Honestly, the true crime on this forum is that many many people have really bad results and experiences with tuners and vendors and choose to keep quiet. This results in another member having the same problem with the same tuner or vendor. Ask a simple question about warranty. Do these vendors have warranty? You never get straight answer. You hear stuff like, "we stand behind our products." what exactly does that mean. Does that mean mean that if my engine blows up, you'll buy me a new one? Yes or no?

.......The truth essentially is that most of the tuners and vendors offering products and services are small business people who do it for the love of the cars. Therefore, if your car blows up, you are totally on your own. This should be communicated clearly.

.........In Florida for instances, there are many surgeons that do not carry malpractice insurance. I'm sure they all "stand behind their work" but if you get hurt, you are SOL. Won't you want to know this? Of course you would. As a result, the doctors are required to have a huge sign in the waiting room saying "THIS FACILITY DOES NOT CARRY MALPRACTICE INSURANCE."

.......acting like a big time tuner when you are a little shop creates high expectations and is what gets vendors and tuners in trouble. If the little shop says: hey, we can help you do this for this much money, but we not sure it will work out helps create create trust. Acting like you are an AMG engineer is what gets you into troublke. Make it clear that you are just a little shop without insurance tinkering with really expensive cars. State that you have no warranty and no cash reserve to fix any catastrophe. If the person chooses to go with you, they know exactly what they are dealing with.

Ted

ROCKETW19

I agree to all this but this has nuttin to do with Adam cuzz he actuall did stand behind his work and any problems do to his work or product he would replace. he told me that day 1 if you have a problem pull over call me and I will send a flat bed and take care of it. well it happened at the track I had a problem tony couldnt figure out and he said F-it call a flat bed. he ended up figuring it out at the same time adam was on the phone.
Ballzys super charger and tranny got replaced no problems. I realy doubt any other shop would do that or could do that!

MB_Forever

Jon, you should probably close this thread as it will turn into another flame copy of the original thread (that is if it hasn't already). I think you have started the same kind of thread that you told me I shouldn't have

neveo

Ballzys super charger and tranny got replaced no problems. I realy doubt any other shop would do that or could do that![/QUOTE]


wonder if Ballzy's new performance shop would do the same and or have the connections to see that it gets replaced by MB.....

EE were always very stand up with me and they helped me when i have had issues with other vendors.. weren't out to try to make a buck at my expense..

ROCKETW19

Ya I agree! people have nuttin better to do than cause drama!

SLK55R

I disagree. With a good tuner the same problem would not occur. With a bad tuner ... sure.

There is no simple question regarding warranty when you mix products from different vendors and from different shops. Who is to say which specific product was faulty? Was it the aftermarket sparkplugs installed by shop A? Was it the ignition wires installed by shop B? Was it the faulty Cam install from Shop C?
What I can say is Adam has always stood by his products and even in the case multiple mods could have affected the problem, he will stand by a FULL fix. Why don't you ask what Adam offered to try and fix a problem before completely blaming him?( BTW this is for the forum in general, not you specifically Ted)


Adam never told anyone that he was a big time tuner ... I don't think anyone that has ever visited EE thinks it's a big shop. In terms of a warranty I expect EE and the VENDOR to back it up. Its one reason why I don't really mix products and even if I do, I get the blessing of my main vendor. (ex my Supersprint stuff I specifically asked Renntech if it was okay) I don't believe Adam or Ryan ever said they were like an AMG engineer. They made it clear that they do have insurance.


What I do know is :
I have lost a shop that would answer my calls if I had a flat tire
I have lost a shop that will install/service my car (with a mercedes tech) for less cost than the dealership
I have lost a group of friends that would get together to discuss cars and enjoy them at EE
I have lost a shop that would transport my spare rims to a dealership free of charge
I have lost a shop that would order what I wanted with zero headache
I have lost a shop that would get me tires at their cost
I have lost a shop that would set up group runs to Sac for drag racing
I have lost a shop that would get answers for my questions in a timely manner
I have lost a shop that would open at anytime to fit my schedule


SO what if I they didn't pick up the phone immediately everytime?
SO what if they took a bit longer for my powercoat on my tires?
SO what if they had to do a few ECU tunes for my car?


I guess you know which side I'm on ...

Just don't ask for my input regarding the Renntech/EE debacle!

neveo

Plus 1

Ted Baldwin

........you really don't get the point. Anyone can send you a flat bed truck, but WHAT HAPPENS IF YOUR ENGINE GRENADES? WILL ADAM GET YOU A NEW ENGINE? Ever had that conversation?

..........Ballzy's supercharger and tranny got replaced..........BY WHO? the dealer!!!!!

What if Ballyzy's car was out of dealer warranty? would Adam have replaced the supercharger and the tranny? Of course not. Adam won't have replaced it..........not because Adam is not a nice guy, but because he simply can't. If Adam had to replace two superchargers and two tranny's in S55's in one year, he'll go out of business. It will wipe out his profits for that whole year. These are not some big companies with liabilty insurance that will pay for a new engine or tranny if things go bad. Saying "we stand behind our products" is meaningless. Fine, if the ECU or TCU tune is not right you'll be given a new tune.....big deal! Question is........will you.....no, CAN you replace my engine if it granades?

...........I am not even against Adam. When Kleemann first came out, I said the same thing about their lack of warranty for your car. Up till now, no one really knows for sure if Kleemann or Renntech actually or do not have warranty for your engine if it blows. It is all so opaque.

.....The dirty little secret is that you are completely and totally on your own when you start modifying your car. The little shops like Adam's that help you, cannot do anything for you if you have a catastrophe. This should be openly acknowledged instead of hiding behind meaningless phrases like "we stand behind our products." Fine, your engine is blown, but your tuner is ready to give you a new tune for half price.............just as soon as you take your car to the dealer and replace youe engine yourself.


Ted

ChicagoX

Excellent perspective from someone who lived the nightmare. Simply sharing info with you could have saved you a nice stack of cash.

These forums are an exchange of INFORMATION, both positive and negative. This is OUR Better Business Bureau.

Mind, I'm not saying everything went down as it should have WRT EE...