You guys need to check this out
02-09-2009, 08:58 PM
#1
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You guys need to check this out
The shizzle is gonna hit the fan!
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...y-know-do.html
....Bring lots of popcorn!
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...y-know-do.html
....Bring lots of popcorn!
02-09-2009, 09:36 PM
#3
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The shizzle is gonna hit the fan!
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...y-know-do.html
....Bring lots of popcorn!
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...y-know-do.html
....Bring lots of popcorn!
02-09-2009, 09:48 PM
#4
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
I think he's legit, but I think he FOR SURE has an agendy and did not make that post to simply enlighten the members here. He is trying to discredit MHP no doubt and he clearly has a personal stake in the matter.
02-09-2009, 10:03 PM
#5
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The second point that he raises is regarding the TCU...stating that "unless the customer is shipping the entire transmission to you, how are you giving them a TCU reflash?" Jim, since you had this done to your car, what do you make of it?
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02-09-2009, 10:15 PM
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Two interesting points are raised by the OP. First, "ONLY Bosch can provide the protection key. Dave is not generating these keys. If he were, there would be no need for customers to send him ecus. It is literally that simple." If this is true, did Andy/Dave really crack any codes?
The second point that he raises is regarding the TCU...stating that "unless the customer is shipping the entire transmission to you, how are you giving them a TCU reflash?" Jim, since you had this done to your car, what do you make of it?
The second point that he raises is regarding the TCU...stating that "unless the customer is shipping the entire transmission to you, how are you giving them a TCU reflash?" Jim, since you had this done to your car, what do you make of it?
Both good points. As I drove Jims car with the MHP ECU/TCU I think I can comment and say that I was not impressed with whatever TCU changes were made. From day one I asked for rev matched downshifts. I was on the track behind the wheel of Jims car for about 3 laps and I never once noticed any throttle blipping...and I only drove his car in M mode shifiting myself. I did however notice a considerable difference in shift firmness and throttle response over my stock Black Series.
02-09-2009, 10:18 PM
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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Jrcart, I just wish Andy would send back my ECU that him & Dave have had since December last year.
02-09-2009, 10:25 PM
#11
The last thing I want to do is defend Andy, and I wish I could say "I told you so", but it was my understanding that he "tunes" the TCU through the ECU? He knows the TCU is located in the trans, but he can adjust shift points and quickness by porting through the ECU. And some of his customers have said they notice a huge difference in shifting, so I'm not sure how else he could achieve this without adjusting the TCU?
02-09-2009, 10:28 PM
#12
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Both good points. As I drove Jims car with the MHP ECU/TCU I think I can comment and say that I was not impressed with whatever TCU changes were made. From day one I asked for rev matched downshifts. I was on the track behind the wheel of Jims car for about 3 laps and I never once noticed any throttle blipping...and I only drove his car in M mode shifiting myself. I did however notice a considerable difference in shift firmness and throttle response over my stock Black Series.
On a serious note, I certainly hope for Andy's sake that none of the accusations are true. He has taken a beating over the last several weeks on these boards and the poor guy needs a break.
02-09-2009, 10:30 PM
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Nothing really constructive to add to this thread but if you Google "Tim Milliken" you're directed to Mustangs forums, of which at least one that username has been banned and also he's linked to something called EFI Solutions. Which appears to be a tuning company that specializes in Ford Mustangs.
That is all, carry on.
That is all, carry on.
02-09-2009, 10:30 PM
#14
I wonder if Jrcart is on his way to MHP as we speak. I can only hope that Jangy did not let him borrow his gun.
On a serious note, I certainly hope for Andy's sake that none of the accusations are true. He has taken a beating over the last several weeks on these boards and the poor guy needs a break.
On a serious note, I certainly hope for Andy's sake that none of the accusations are true. He has taken a beating over the last several weeks on these boards and the poor guy needs a break.
02-09-2009, 10:49 PM
#15
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If Andy really is a fraud and gets booted from MBWorld, I'm gonna have to scratch him off my list of victims for the MBWorld Celebrity MMA/Boxing Death Match........
Shoot.
Shoot.
02-09-2009, 11:07 PM
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02-09-2009, 11:41 PM
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02-09-2009, 11:42 PM
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The TCU stuff is interesting, to say the least. I don't have anything personal against MHP, although we've butted heads before a little.
I really find this post below interesting, it seems as though he's saying that he purposely posted wrong information to see if anyone would call him out on it; which sounds really crazy to me.
https://mbworld.org/forums/3137691-post223.html
As I posted a few minutes ago. All 63 TCU is handled via the ECU only, cars with WA5A variants are done via seperate control units as in we need both.
As for the quoted post above, do you have any idea how many other vendors with 63 tuning of their own called me out on that? LOL, exactly Zero.
Members/customers that PM'd me for more info on our 63 tuning back then were told about the ECU doing everything.
It's a shady business, we knew that coming in, and we still underestimated what some will do in an attempt to copy our tuning.
I really find this post below interesting, it seems as though he's saying that he purposely posted wrong information to see if anyone would call him out on it; which sounds really crazy to me.
https://mbworld.org/forums/3137691-post223.html
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
TCU: We don't need anything from you unless you choose to send us your existing TCU. We can order a spare, flash it and then send it to you so you have zero downtime. I've done the swap 3 times now and I'm down to 1.5hrs in total; R&R instructions will be up on our soon to be revamped site soon. I called the service manager at my local dealership to give me a book quote and he's going to get back to me asap. His estimate was 2-2.5hrs tops.
ECU: We need you to send us the VIN encoded ECU already in your vehicle. You can (as I did) buy a spare ECU then have the dealer install/code it for you (under $100 for the labor to do so) and then send us your original one. You'll then have a stocker for warranty purposes later. The ECU swap is a 10 minute or under job.
Thanks
Andy
TCU: We don't need anything from you unless you choose to send us your existing TCU. We can order a spare, flash it and then send it to you so you have zero downtime. I've done the swap 3 times now and I'm down to 1.5hrs in total; R&R instructions will be up on our soon to be revamped site soon. I called the service manager at my local dealership to give me a book quote and he's going to get back to me asap. His estimate was 2-2.5hrs tops.
ECU: We need you to send us the VIN encoded ECU already in your vehicle. You can (as I did) buy a spare ECU then have the dealer install/code it for you (under $100 for the labor to do so) and then send us your original one. You'll then have a stocker for warranty purposes later. The ECU swap is a 10 minute or under job.
Thanks
Andy
Originally Posted by MHP
Originally Posted by Andy0331
From this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/3045155-post449.html
No flames intended, but clarification would be nice. Before, the TCU had to be physically flashed (via new unit or sending in your factory one), now it is all done through the ECU? Please detail the process for each car or tranny.
No flames intended, but clarification would be nice. Before, the TCU had to be physically flashed (via new unit or sending in your factory one), now it is all done through the ECU? Please detail the process for each car or tranny.
As for the quoted post above, do you have any idea how many other vendors with 63 tuning of their own called me out on that? LOL, exactly Zero.
Members/customers that PM'd me for more info on our 63 tuning back then were told about the ECU doing everything.
It's a shady business, we knew that coming in, and we still underestimated what some will do in an attempt to copy our tuning.
02-09-2009, 11:56 PM
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'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
actually
The last thing I want to do is defend Andy, and I wish I could say "I told you so", but it was my understanding that he "tunes" the TCU through the ECU? He knows the TCU is located in the trans, but he can adjust shift points and quickness by porting through the ECU. And some of his customers have said they notice a huge difference in shifting, so I'm not sure how else he could achieve this without adjusting the TCU?
02-10-2009, 01:42 AM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
I posted this in the C63 thread, but figured to post it here again to get you guys' take on it....
=====================================
Before I start, I want to clarify that I have no affiliation what so ever with Andy or Tim other than reading their posts on this site and maybe communicating with Andy a couple of times through different posts. I do not mean to take any sides by the points I'm raising, as I'm neutral to both parties.....
1) Regarding ECU adaptations..... every single tuner I've asked have told me the ECU will need around 200 miles of variable driving to fully adapt to the new changes. This is due to the intrinsic structure of the programming of TCU's adaptation. The list of tuners who have confirmed this include: RennTech, Kleeman, Brabus, Powerchip, VRP and Evosport (they both use Powerchip), MHP. The only two tuners that I know about but have not gotten a chance to ask them about the adaptations are LET and MKB. Most tuners vary slightly on their agreement to the number of miles needed for a complete adaptation, but from my experience, the average was around 200 miles.
2) Assuming the TCU cannot be flashed through the ECU, we would still not need to remove the entire trans valve body and ship it somewhere. Two different Mercedes dealership quoted me 1.5 to 2 hours to remove the TCU from my car and hand it to me, so shipping the tranny to flash the TCU is not required.
3) The idea that the TCU can be flashed through the ECU on new cars is not too far fetched. I recall one of the technicians that was working on my car told me that when Mercedes released a new TCU update, we (the dealer) flash it through the ECU. This means they do NOT take the TCU out for a complete flash. However, I've yet to confirm this, and will try to get a definite answer in the next couple of days.
4) I never understood what Andy meant by cracking the 128-bit encryption, as that is practically impossible. I'm assuming he was talking about a loop hole or a way around the encryption by re-flashing the ROM
5) Tim said that only Bosch can generate the keys..... this did not seem to stop any tuners in the past and doesn't seem to stop any of the current tuners either. Even the most capable software companies like Microsoft have their key algorithms cracked and on the market in a matter of days. I can't count the number of times where I read about people finding authentic key generator programs for almost EVERY SINGLE Microsoft program (as well as other programs from many other software companies). But assuming that only Bosch can now generate the keys, does that mean RennTech, Kleemann, Powerchip, Brabus, and MKB can NOT tune the ECUs anymore? We need more info here please......
6) Andy has posted many dynos of his car (done in 4th and 5th gear by the way while most other tuners shown 4th gear only), then you tube videos of the shift points, then track results both in ideal track conditions and not so ideal. Similarly, all his C63 customers who have tried his tune showed at least 60 whp increase on the dyno and very impressive gains on the track with incredible track results. However, it is true that we have not yet seen any data from a non C-Class tune, such as, E-Class, CLS-Class, S-Class, etc..... this is, of course, with the exception of Jim's Black Series, but because the car has lots of mods, it was hard to tell which mods attributed to which gains and I believe no dynos were taken to log and isolate the MHP tune vs the Evosport/Powerchip tune.
=====================================
Can someone with more tuning experience comment on some of these points?
=====================================
Before I start, I want to clarify that I have no affiliation what so ever with Andy or Tim other than reading their posts on this site and maybe communicating with Andy a couple of times through different posts. I do not mean to take any sides by the points I'm raising, as I'm neutral to both parties.....
1) Regarding ECU adaptations..... every single tuner I've asked have told me the ECU will need around 200 miles of variable driving to fully adapt to the new changes. This is due to the intrinsic structure of the programming of TCU's adaptation. The list of tuners who have confirmed this include: RennTech, Kleeman, Brabus, Powerchip, VRP and Evosport (they both use Powerchip), MHP. The only two tuners that I know about but have not gotten a chance to ask them about the adaptations are LET and MKB. Most tuners vary slightly on their agreement to the number of miles needed for a complete adaptation, but from my experience, the average was around 200 miles.
2) Assuming the TCU cannot be flashed through the ECU, we would still not need to remove the entire trans valve body and ship it somewhere. Two different Mercedes dealership quoted me 1.5 to 2 hours to remove the TCU from my car and hand it to me, so shipping the tranny to flash the TCU is not required.
3) The idea that the TCU can be flashed through the ECU on new cars is not too far fetched. I recall one of the technicians that was working on my car told me that when Mercedes released a new TCU update, we (the dealer) flash it through the ECU. This means they do NOT take the TCU out for a complete flash. However, I've yet to confirm this, and will try to get a definite answer in the next couple of days.
4) I never understood what Andy meant by cracking the 128-bit encryption, as that is practically impossible. I'm assuming he was talking about a loop hole or a way around the encryption by re-flashing the ROM
5) Tim said that only Bosch can generate the keys..... this did not seem to stop any tuners in the past and doesn't seem to stop any of the current tuners either
. Even the most capable software companies like Microsoft have their key algorithms cracked and on the market in a matter of days. I can't count the number of times where I read about people finding authentic key generator programs for almost EVERY SINGLE Microsoft program (as well as other programs from many other software companies). But assuming that only Bosch can now generate the keys, does that mean RennTech, Kleemann, Powerchip, Brabus, and MKB can NOT tune the ECUs anymore? We need more info here please...... 6) Andy has posted many dynos of his car (done in 4th and 5th gear by the way while most other tuners shown 4th gear only), then you tube videos of the shift points, then track results both in ideal track conditions and not so ideal. Similarly, all his C63 customers who have tried his tune showed at least 60 whp increase on the dyno and very impressive gains on the track with incredible track results. However, it is true that we have not yet seen any data from a non C-Class tune, such as, E-Class, CLS-Class, S-Class, etc..... this is, of course, with the exception of Jim's Black Series, but because the car has lots of mods, it was hard to tell which mods attributed to which gains and I believe no dynos were taken to log and isolate the MHP tune vs the Evosport/Powerchip tune.
=====================================
Can someone with more tuning experience comment on some of these points?
Last edited by MB_Forever; 02-10-2009 at 01:44 AM.
