Strafe1

Gravedgr,
Hope I didn't come off negative to your post. I'm still in rant mode from my previous post. It's good to see your objectivity in this. I hope we see some more of it from others!

otoupalik

FWIW, there are still more threads then I can remember on this forum that bash evosport, renntech, kleemann, etc. We have not deleted any of them. Although we are admins here, it would not be in the best interest of the community to hide such info.

These threads will be closed as they get off track. I have closed one already today as it became an off topic flame war.

It is a shame that MHP and many others are attempting to make this about evosport, or MBWorld/IB or anyone else. That is just deflection. I would have more respect for anyone that can admit a problem and fix it. Heck, we are all human, and we all make mistakes each and every day!

Thanks
Brad

bigben320e

Good point. Where there are humans, there will be problems and errors.

lolachampcar

It might be helpful to back up and look at what tuners do with ECU calibrations. Normally, they alter timing and fuel curves or targets to improve performance. This consumes some of the safety margin left by the manufacture and perhaps some of compromises made for emissions compliance.

The newer ecus have introduced a large number of other variables such as torque limits and some transmission control (or more accurately, requests to the transmission controller to alter its behavior) and there is a lot of fiddling that can go on here.

There are also what I call the “perception tables”. These alter the driver’s perception of performance. Ferrari has a very aggressive throttle tip in to give the driver the “feel” that the car just jumps when you touch the pedal. It works at the expense of drivability if there is such a word. For example, it is near impossible to blip the throttle on a manual downshift in a 430 without hitting the rev limiter. Back to the point; if you quicken up the throttle response and sharpen the shifts, the car feels faster. It does not seem to amount to much in pure performance but perception is a powerful part of the equation for some and meaningless to others.

Sometimes people find little tricks in a particular ecu. Sometimes these tricks are a competitive advantage for a short period of time but the ecu tune waters tend to seek their own level and sooner or later, everyone is using the tricks that work.

It is my opinion that tuners should be evaluated and chosen like financial advisors. You can get aggressive returns with some but at what cost? You can get tremendous stability (reliability) from others but may not reach your personal goals for the experience. For me, the moral of the story is to pick someone you are comfortable with, one that understands your goals and can help you achieve them. If you’re a nutter about this stuff, and I mean that in a very good way, try to strike up a relationship that lets you try several different firmware modifications to see what makes you smile the most. For example, if you’re a track and street guy, find one that will set you up with 103 octane maps for drag strip fun, 100 octane maps for track days and a good conservative tune for the street. Try a couple of different pedal maps until you find one that makes the car feel right for you but does not jerk your wife’s head off bouncing around on the gas. I could go on but I think I’ve made the point.

I hope this helps.

jangy

True, but there will also be precautions and a proper game plan. Any tuner has their "accident" but that is not what is being discussed.

Would this thread have been locked if it were in reference to EVOSport practices? Dunno, but why does it matter in this case?

How MHP / Andy is being treated is irrelevent, except for those that want to hear more excuses. Sure, there are two sides to any story, but the backside has been branded into us for some time now.

LZH

Good post, but I disagree with the above. I can, and have heel/toe'd the 430 and just about every other modern day Fcar with ease and perfection. In fact, I find the 360 and 355 and 430 some of the easiest to do this in due to throttle response and pedal placement.
I get what you are saying though....I just think that was a bad example.

lolachampcar

You're my hero as I sucked on the 360 and it just got worse on the 430. Thank god for no lift to shift and sequential boxes. They were made for ham fists like me.

gravedgr

No, no problem at all. I would tend to disagree with one point - I think the fact that its MHP instead of LET, Kleeman, etc. is expecially relevant. We all know MHP has been very forceful in their claims and defense of same; in fact you could say they set themselves up for a fall. There are literally dozens here who have been itching for a chance to legitimately bash them.

Which is all the reason more the administrators have to stay objective - they can't give in to the (justifiable?) urge to throw MHP to the wolves while they can't respond. Just one man's opinion.
Fair enough, and I agree.
I agree, and I hope that when they can address it here again they do so in a professional manner. Until then, it seems to me we've exhausted one side of the story pretty much - I just don't see the point of endless bashing (other than to get the anti-MHP crowd worked up) until we hear their response. Once they respond, everyone can weigh in again. Again, just my opinion.

Andy0331

Mods/admin any chance of locking this beast?

Any parties with actual "value" to add could be done by having a mod post, but all the side commentary has derailed this train into nothing of value after the first couple pages.

otoupalik

agreed.