slownrusty

kjlindgr - Are you worried about the Swain coating compatibility with the Alusil bores? What was CP's feedback?

What is the process to coat the bores with Nickasil or Alusil and the cost involved? I am sure this is very specialized with only a few places in the U.S that can do this.

Interesting thread.
Yasin

Exotic-metal55

Actually, a there a few really good places that can do Nickasil or other coatings.. Most all motorcycles, BMW and aftermarket Porsche motors either have or go woth Nickasil.. So it is done all the time.. My custom pistons were around 1500 bucks and I think the coating was also the same.. Included reconditiong the block..


It is not the piston you have to worry about running in either Nikisil or Alumisil,, it is the type of rings.. The piston skirt should be coated either way..

BlownV8

The piston is the issue as well as the rings in an Alusil bore. In the nickasil bore, it's the rings. Most high quality pistons will work with the nickasil coating. However, with the Alusil bore, it's tough to find a piston that is compatable with the bore. You can't use an uncoated piston in the Alusil and the only ones, I'll say it again, that make coatings that work in the Alusil bore are Kolbenschmidt and Mahle. These engines are way too expensive to be a testbed for someone elses coating that's not used by the manufacturers.

If you are deadset on modifying the engine, go with Nickasil and a custom set of forged pistons. There are a few companies that have great sucess modifying motorcycle and Porsche engines with Nickasil. Many engines come with Nickasil from the factory. The only downside is high sulfer gas. But, my best recollection, I think all the high sulfer fuel has been removed from the pumps due to emmission issues. However, not long ago in the grand sceme of things, BMW had huge issues with the sulfer content in the fuel and it was causing the Nickasil to deterioriate. BMW replaced many engines from the failure.

If you really want to go crazy, have the liners replaced with iron ones and bore and stroke the engine to 7+ liters. That would solve any power needs you may have. Check out some of the Porsche 928 boards. They are doing some crazy things to the engines.

loungn14

man, so sad to see. It looks like your local to me, if you need anything whatsoever let me know.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

So I guess I am going to ask the million dollar question!
What tune and mods did you have on your car or was it a stock?

pearlpower

Good question, could it be another motor? I believe I read a while back he had an ASP 180mm pulley and HE. Not sure about a tune.????????????

slownrusty

BlownV8 - Thanks for the reply and post..interesting stuff. Not that I would but can the 5.4L E55 really be punched out to 7L and still maintain block strength even though it might be running iron liners? I have seen only a few 928 blocks punch out past 6L, and I frequent the 928forums, I do recall a 7L 928 block.

bnzuovr

First off i want to say thanks to all the guys on here who have gave me and offered there help and expertist. As far as the mods i have on my car it is pretty much bolt ons, Headers,pulley,(H.E & johnson pump) these 2 i really don't concider performance mods but preventitive mods,K&N filters and secondary cats & resinators deleted,tune was done by Jeremy when he was at power chip. From what i have heard and seen he is a very trusted & knowledgeable professional. So as far as the finger pointing on my half i don't want to do any of that yet till i can have them pull apart the motor & further investigate what really happened as far as the detination in the cyl. So again thanks for all the great advice and opinions. I will keep you guys posted on what happens.

bassn_07

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate outcome.

I remember sometime late last year you were asking me about Jeremy and my thoughts of his tune. Like always I highly recommended him and still do. If I remember correctly your car made good power with a tune/pulley at FMU last August (https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tor-union.html). Since then it seems as though you added a few things which a re-tune would definitely be in order. If you don't mind me asking who did the re-tune? I know Jeremy did the initial tune but is he also responsible for the re-tune, or did you go back to PC after Jeremy left. I understand you're not blaming Jeremy but I'm just looking for clarification. Once again sorry to hear of your motor and unfortunately it's something we're all scared of.

blackbenzz

Cylinder 8 huh? I'm interested to hear what you find out when you tear the motor down. Keep us posted.

bnzuovr

Accaully the re-tune was done at fluid at the time jeremy was contacted via phone and files were sent via email cant say for sure how much info he received over the phone or email and if he was able to view the files in order to make the proper adjustments to the files for the re-tune. AGAIN i would like to stress that i am not mad or upset at anybody that has done any type of work on my car. I just hope we all can learn from whatever comes out of this unfortunate situation that i am in. Thanks for your thoughts and concerns and agian i will give more info once i learn more and figure out what really happened.

Havoc

I highly doubt our 5.4L can be punched out to a 7L. I already have iron sleeves that are bored to 4" from our stock 3.82". I was told that any larger of a bore will compromise the strength of the cylinders.

I'm currently looking into increasing the stroke to 3.80" from our stock 3.62" with 5.7" Ti rods making that a 383 cu in / 6.28L. I know that's possible, but I'm trying to find out if a longer rod is possible and what's the max stroke I can go with.

slownrusty

Havoc - Why did you punch out your block and with the 4" bore your cubic capacity is?

How does the car run?

A 6.3L Kompressor would be ill!

Exotic-metal55

The infamous number 8? Please keep us posted, as that cylinder is famous for going lean first..


I am also looking into iron sleeves for my exta block and end up in the a 6.2 litre range.. Darton sleeves can get it done!

Forrest Gump 9

You're always on top of thing .

Havoc

I punched out my block because I'm going for max power and I wanted a stronger bottom end. I'm right at 350 cu in from our stock 332 cu in.

My engine is currently disassembled. My valve springs were never upgraded and the valves floated and struck a piston and trashed the cams. My heads are ported and polished and have oversized valves with VRP/PTE cams. Since all the valve train needs to be rebuilt I decided to upgrade the bottom end as well. I’m now going with a different piston design with higher compression, stroked titanium rods, and trying to get some custom high lift cams made.
And yes I'm using a different engine house this time!

kjlindgr

Are you really trying to get us to believe that none of the specialized coating processors (i.e. Swain) have figured out how to make a coating to work with Alusil bores? I mean, let's be honest, Alusil isn't exactly cutting edge and has been around for decades.

BlownV8

Proven coating on an aftermarket piston running in an alusil bore - yes. I am very wary of piston coatings in the Alusil bore after having numerous failures trying to use them. Call them and see what they have to say and ask them if their coating is guaranteed to last over 200,000 miles. Make sure you tell them you are running an alusil bore and an aftermarket, non Mahle or Kolbenschmidt, forged piston. Ask them again if they will pay for the engine if/when their coating fails and your piston scuffs the cylinder wall.

I have heard some people trying their coatings in the an Alusil bore but I have not seen any long term results. If it works, I would be the first to jump on board. I and many others have tried different coatings over the last decade or so but I have not seen any that have worked over the long haul. The only thing I have seen that works is to use a Mahle or Kolbenschmidt piston made from Alusil or cote the cylinders with Nickasil or Lokasil. You can then use an aftermarket piston and not worry about scuffing with the Nickasil.

Another issue, even if you have a coating that works, when using an aftermarket piston is that the aluminum is different than the bore and has a different expansion rate. The aftermarket forged pistons expand 30% to 50% more than a stock Alusil piston. What's that mean to someone who is rebuilding their engine? You have to run .0040 or greater clearance. What's that do? It causes high oil consumption and piston rattle on start-up.

Here is some interesting reading.

http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_bo...rybodys_ideas/

http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep4/EP10-2008_18.pdf

http://www.lnengineering.com/whynickies.html

Call someone who rebuilds these engines full time:
http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/m...ne-booklet.pdf

loungn14

my thoughts too....anxiously waiting on your new injectors to see if this takes care of issues such as this.....

pearlpower

If your motor and money were on the line, would you chance it?

Tech-Tune

I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. Got a question I'm hoping someone could answer:
Does anyone know (for sure) what coating MB uses to line the cylinder? I believe its Alusil but need to confirm.


I'm in the process of building a CLK55 engine I recently purchased.
JE told me they could make a set of forged pistons that will directly replace my stockers. The cost should be around $1500 for the set.

Zod

From what i know they had a fall out n well they went with an other tuner...
not the first issue with FMU...

ahmad0658

Brabus has some work on engine from 5.4 to 6.1L .. check them out , maybe usefull !!!!!

BlownV8

If you are going to use JE, get the block coated with Nickasil. The JE pistons won't work with the Alusil bore.

AgSilver

JE has been providing pistons for Porsche applications for years. Porsche cylinder walls are basically the same as MB's. Although not listed, they probably already have pistons for the 113. I know they also have pistons for Ferrari as I have them in my C4 12 cylinder.

http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Au...e/Porsche.aspx