Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

My friend has an E55 2003 with 180mm pulley, tune and 2.82 diff, the car was pulling timing alot and you can feel the drop in power on 4th gear, we decided to made some cooling mods, we bought the thin HE from an SL (used ,junk yard) the one that sit in front of the AC radiator, with some fitments and welds we ended up installing it in series with the oem HE, also we bought a water/meth kit and installed it also after the SC and before IC(50/50 mix).
The iat before(stock cooling) was at 200F above 6000 rpm at 3rd gear and 4th gear, with water/meth kit only, the IAT went to 150F, with the 2 HE's and stock pump and water meth kit the IAT went to 125F, so we decide to buy the meziere pump and installed it, but what is not expected that the iat went to 145-150 with the meziere pump and yes we have take all the air from the system and you can watch that this pump has very high pressure.
we decide to take off the meziere and return the stock pump, the iat went back to 125F. my conlusion the meziere pump has very high velocity and pressure and did not work with my setup.
with oem pump, normal driving was between 80 and 90F, with meziere between 90 and 100F and the recovery is much quicker with the OEM pump also.
yes this is what happens with me.
BTW the timing went from 6-7 at 200F to 18 -19 at 125F.
outside temp for all runs is between 70 and 80 F.

AgSilver

The Meziere may be cavitating as it appears to be designed for much higher flow rates than is possible with the E55 HE/IC configuration.

LOCO 05' E55

The Meziere pump is what has been killing me for the past 5 months because of how small my reservoir is. These pumps are way too fast and on small apps it wont allow the water to cool before is back in the action IMO only guys with large tanks use these along with a CM30 to run in series.

Tom_Boy

The pump is pushing water too fast through the system before the Heat Exchanger can pull the heat out of the water.

Hammer Down

so what's your remedy?

MBH motorsports

Im going to do some testing on my SL this week with this pump. If it flows to much I put $200 right in the trash.

reitmeid

And thus begins another episode of Mercedes W211 E55: The Greatest Myths

whipplem104

There has actually been a lot of testing on pump flow. I read an article years ago of testing on either a cobra or lightning that they kept increasing the pump size until it actually made the iat go up.
So it is possible this is a problem. The cavitation comment is also a possibility.
I agree that those with trunk reservoirs may get better use out of this.

Bramage

I know some people (with logging) have shown nice IAT drops using this pump.

beauphus

I have the meziere in series with the stock bosch v4 pump BUT I have a 5 gallon reservoir. My IATs stay approx 100 to 110 at WOT but I also run meth. When I look in the resrvoir with pumps running it doesnt appear to be overly turbulent perhaps there is some magic to how it is setup.

Jakpro1

I wish I had more time, I would LOVE LOVE to try an experiment with Johnson 30's VS 90's. I have always used the 90's and just think it's too much flow. Just too busy now to tinker around plugging in 30's to see the diff.

Thanks for the info!!

reitmeid

Here's an example of the various pump's capabilities IMO. Take a Meziiere with 1 1/4" in/outs and plumb it into a 10 foot diameter 1 1/4" circle of copper pipe with maybe say a 2 gallon reservoir. Starts out pumping say 18.5 gpm due to friction. Now neck it down to 3/4" in/outs and a 10 foot circle of 3/4 copper. Suddenly the 18.5 has dropped to say..12 gpm. Now introduce an HE into the circle. Flow is down to 8 gpm. Now add an IC to the cricuit and you have guess what? ...about 3.9 gpm.
Now make a 10 foot circle of 3/4" inch copper and plumb in a Bosch or CM30. You'll see about 8 gpm. Add in the HE and you'll see about 6gpm. Add the IC and you'll be at 4-5 gpm. So, either the Bosch or the cm30 outperforms the Meziere when in either a stock, or stock/separated circuit. These little pumps were designed for this type of system. Is the Meziere cavitating? I don't know..maybe that's why it runs so loud. But in any case, it is underperforming the 2 smaller pumps. I think Meziere is a great company with a great products but beleive they have yet to DESIGN a pump for an intercooler type circuit. Remember forcing water at a healthy gpm through the 2 main restrictions takes power. And all these pumps are 12volts. I was able to increase gpm to nearly 7 by running the Bosch 12volt pump at 24v. A system could be built that switched power from 12v to 24v at boost. A radial fin cooler could be made for the pump. I ran the Bosch at 24v for 15 minutes continuous with a slight increase in gmp indicating heat was causing amps to run up. Getting the gpms up is all about increasing input power...and you don't do that with a pump optimized for remote engine cooling with most likely 1 1/4 " lines like the Meziere. Also, the cm90 with 3/4" in/out did beat them all with close to 5.5 - 6 gpm and is a great pump. But mounting in the stock location would be challenging. So, for low price, great perfomance at very low amps, go cm30. For more money, great performance, but the stock look dealers love, and a bit more amp draw, go latest Bosch design. Now I don't claim to know about trunk mounting and dual pumps and rear reservoirs because I don't have one at this time and haven't tested. But, I did test all twosomes of the above pumps in series and in every case the result was LESS gmp. Go figure. Or..I'm tired of typing and I'm sure you're tired of reading.

LOCO 05' E55

Meth did the trick but mainly to keep IATs right where i started the pull and even below throughout the run..but im still debating on why my temps are always 40 even 45 above ambient and dont recover to 15-20 unless im cruising for a while.

My tank is only a gallon which is too small for the speed of the meziere so i might try either making another larger tank or going back to stock cooling config at least for the winter and add another HE ..I have tried different things in regards to cooling only meth being the winner at this point..but i would love to start a run at a closer to ambient IAT along with the meth

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

You're right, after my experience the trick is to start the run at 80-85 F not at 100-110F, i am 100% sure that the stock pump has quick recovery time then the meziere pump, with my setup it took not more then 1 minute after a run to recover the IAT from 125F to 85F.

TopGun32

excellent post...

I still have the Meziere pump siting in my garage....

some days i read they are great and other days.. probably not.

For the amount of time I push my car in the summer time.. (less than a handful).. I'm probably ok with my CM30, and split system and HE.

probably should focus on my exhaust manifolds....

reitmeid

I'm sticking with my cm30 until I set up something more elaborate in the trunk. Will probably hang on to my cm90 for that day. I just installed PLM headers, and sent my ecu to Jerry for the new tune. PM me if you want my impressions on either.

mikey33

When I installed my meizere pump I got instant and great results. I split the coolant and added a large h/e though. My peak IATs during a WOT run were high 130's I believe which at the time the ambient temperature was around 110d I believe. So, it really does work imo if you are going to run the split set-up and extra h/e, but just throwing it in a stock set-up I am not sure.

mikey33

Here is a link to the thread I started about the meziere pump and my results.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...make-iats.html

Exotic-metal55

My Mezerire worked bertter than any stock bosch HD or CM30 I did numerous road, dyno and hot and cold test.. It runs very quiet too. Noice may come from how you mount it.. If it touches any metal , then noise will be transmitted through the frame.. If you are running hot, then you may have a bad pump or air.. I ran my meziere for over a year , before adding rear tank..

FALSE! Mezerie pump does not push water to fast to cool.. This is complete mis-information and has been mentioned for years on this board.. Bottom line, is that with all the H/E`s, no pumps can push water fast enough!! None of the pumps we use can! Even if you add two pumps and rear tank, water still moves to slow.. My test show, I can flow a max of 5.5-6 GPM.. That is with a intank 35 GPM bildge pump , pushing water to the meziere. Our lines are to small and to many H/E`s tr move water any faster..

The CM30 is a magnetic drive and does not handle head pressure well. Would not be my choice in pumps but thier marketing has worked well on this forum.. So enjoy, if you run one..

TopGun32

food for thought..

I have seen great results from people adding a secondary HE.. From what I know, the stock units are "Tube and Fin" design.

I think Eurocharged HE's are Tube and FIn as well..

I have a bar and plate design (Code3 / Spearco) unit..


Could be the type of HE being used.. that affects the cooling benefits of the Meziere pump.

reitmeid

A pump provides flow, not pressure. As the fluid flows thru the IC and HE, pressure is generated. The chosen pump must be able to acheive a set gpm optimal for heat transfer-ie, achieve turbulent flow, in the face of the resistive components. Every brand of HE will likey have it's unique signature in regards to it's resistive or psi number, which would effect the gpm flow thru it, and also, based on it's design, -plate, tube and fin, etc,- would have a rating of it's efficiency in heat transfer. I remember at least one thread here debating the best core design. I do know that the best is one not commonly used in automotive HE's, the plate exchanger, such as is used in the killer chiller. Picture a 55k engine in which the intercooler fluid was routed thru one side of a large plate exchanger in the trunk, and in which the front mounted HE was used to cool the fluid cooling plates in the other half. Might work. Of coures you would need one small pump for the IC/Plate Exchanger circuit and another small pump for the HE/Plate Exchanger circuit. So, ya, if Exotics setup is using a HE or couple of HE's that produce less PSI and more gpm, then that might explain his great results. Someone else might be using an aftermarket HE that really reduces gpm which sucks. I do believe that increasing gpm aids heat exchange although not up to the point that pressure would rupture the IC obviously. I forget the exact formula for turbulent flow thru a heat exchanger but I do know Mercedes engineers achieved it in the stock system at about 3.5 gpm with the 3/4 lines.

Exotic-metal55

Good engineering info! I do have an auxillary H/E but it is from a 2010 GT500 Shelby cobra but made by the same MFG that made our under blower I/C Brick.. My system before trunk tank, worked like this..
1)Meziere pump pushed water into I/C brick under S/C
2) Hot boost water flowed into a large surface area (factory CL H/E), located between radiator and A/C condensor.
3) From Factory H/E semi cooled boost water goes into an aux Garrett H/E from GT500 and cooled a little more, then back to Meziere and back to S/C brick.. Worked very well for a low capacity water H/E sytem.. Shardul and Hadi her ein h town , both have simulair systems but they use one large aftermarket H/E..These are tube H/E`s, as I recall. Their IAT`s are also very close to mine and same on the dyno.. After I added large diameter long tubes, My IAT`s run about 20 deg lower on peak .. Then added rear tank , no ice and peak is even lower.. ADD Ice and you have a hell of a mile runner..

As far as the rear tank goes, I do not think there is much room to improve flow over what I have.. I flow tested a lot of different pumps and set ups to get what I have..Unless you scrap our whole H/E system and start over.. The H/E`s just will not allow the flow.. Our lines are more like 5/8 going in and out of the H/E, even though we use 3/4" for most the aftermarket..

I have a 4.7 gallon rear tank (only fill about 3.5 gal.) and flow about 5.5 to 6 gpm.. In a full mile run , in 85 deg ambient, my tank still had cold water in it at the end (about 50 deg.).. Call it a 28 second run , plus stagging time and this still tells me that we could use more GPM, if our H/E would allow it.. They don`t , so I stopped adding pressure to the lines... I doubled my pump flow to only get a 10-15 % GPM increase..

LOCO 05' E55

I am so frustrated with whatever is happening with my cooling system..While cruising on the highways Iat's stay around 14-20 above ambient no matter what the outside temps are which is fine..

Now my problem comes when im driving local and thats when Iat's shoot up to 35-50 above and unless i get back to cruising speeds they will remain that way. That being said on my last trip to the track i was starting my runs way above ambient (45-50 degrees) on a very cold night.

Now my setup is a CODE 3 Heat Exchanger, Meziere wp136, 1 gallon reservoir (in engine bay)..The pump has been slowed down in the past with a resistor and nothing..today i had it running with the ignition and dont think will help..I know my reservoir is still too small and does not hold a lot of water but was also wondering if the pump is too fast for it. These pumps have a high volume but very low pressure and when i try bleeding the system it only squirts compared to the past when i had the CM30 it would shoot out the capped nipple. Tried bleeding a few times and no success, checked the pump and compared flow with another meziere and nothing, checked for clogging in the HE and nothing, I've heard these heat exchangers are pretty restrictive so i also had in mind adding an extra core..

The CM30 i had took a ***** which is why i went with this one. Now Im looking into just a Bosch..My goal is to be a little closer to ambient.

What next?? any inputs you experts out there?? I do not want to run a trunk reservoir (have heard of cracked intercoolers) not to mention i dont like the ideao

So please Chime in on any other possible solutions..help is appreciated

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

with my setup: stock oem HE + SL HE + oem pump: when i bleed the system the water push out about 15cm(6 inch),
if i replace the oem pump with the meziere 136(same position as oem) the water push out about 1.2-1.5m (4-5 feet) out of the car and hit the wall of the garage.
but to make the meziere pump work in my setup i had to put a T before the inlet of the pump and connect to it the small reservoir, cause the first time the pump work it must have more water coming from the small reservoir to push the return water to it. without the T and the aid of the small reservoir the pump did not get water to push it (in my setup).
after all, the high pressure of the meziere made my AIT rise, and i repeat in my setup(oem pipes diameter, no trunk reservoir).

TopGun32

I have the same setup.. even have a reservoir in my engine bay (air cabin filter area)

My reservoir holds about 60oz.

I can get about 10F above ambient in cruising speeds 70mph..

and on a run to 130mph.. I spiked just over 140IAT (high 80's ambient)..

The only difference.. I have a CM30 still.

I would switch back to a Bosch newer unit and test again...

I'm beginning to see a patter about the code3 units vs the Eurocharged units. But too early to make a call.