TTM Injector and Fuel Rail – 3rd Party Review!!
03-03-2011, 02:59 PM
#76
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Whatever we're tuning!
Hi, was trying to understand the highlighted phrase ...
- was finally able to get oriented with the Left and Right side you are talking (just because we are usual to consider Left the side you see when looking at the engine and not the driver's view ..)
- still can't get why #8 should suffer more than #4 : aren't they both at the same, more or less, distance from their respective closed end of the rail ?
- was finally able to get oriented with the Left and Right side you are talking (just because we are usual to consider Left the side you see when looking at the engine and not the driver's view ..)
- still can't get why #8 should suffer more than #4 : aren't they both at the same, more or less, distance from their respective closed end of the rail ?
The feed line pressurizes the fuel bridge first and once the right side is pressurized it will build full pressure from the end of the rail at #5 towards the rear cylinders. The pressure always builds from the ends of the rail and that is why this fuel rail is a must. Just take a look at the SLR fuel rail. It is a loop just like the TTM fuel rail.
btw, can you tell the function of that kind-of a regulator attached to the rail ? .. it doesn't seem a pressure regulator and it even has no connection to the intake for sensing vacuum/boost 
I mean, how is in our engine regulated the different pressure/flow requirement when idling vs when WOT?
I mean, how is in our engine regulated the different pressure/flow requirement when idling vs when WOT?
about these 550cc injectors: I for sure lost some of the long past discussion about these various injectors, so, to recapitulate, how does its capacity compare to the SLR's injector on equal pressure, resistance, etc .. basis (for which had been given different capacities ranging from 480 to 512 and more ) ?
They also have a dual spray pattern that works incredible with the 2 intake valve head design that is used in the M113k.I designed the additional fuel line to go under the supercharger so you will still be able to use your engine cover and keep it looking stock.
03-03-2011, 07:06 PM
#77
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thanks a lot for answering at every point !
but you know that this leads to further questions
btw, sorry for rearranging the text. it's just for ease of understanding.
but you know that this leads to further questions
btw, sorry for rearranging the text. it's just for ease of understanding.
The left and right side of a car corresponds to when you're sitting in the driver's seat.
I got it ... just, in Europe the rule is the mechanic's view !
What you are referring to is a fuel pressure damper which smooths out the fuel from the turbulence that the open and closing of the injectors causes. The ECU controls the fuel pressure.
yes, that thing in the rail is just a damper. seems our true pressure regulator is, instead, embedded in the fuel filter. The return line too is there. And seems that weird system is not designed for achieving a pressure balance for both idle and wot conditions (whereas pressure regulators are usually intended for that).
True, the ECU seems receiving a signal from the "fuel tank pressure sensor" but I guess it's just a feedback while i am not sure the ecu can actively control it ?!
in any case, our fuel system seems very complicated, at least when not having it at hand.
Btw, our fuel pump, which is located on the passenger side, is a single unit or a twin body ?
I designed the additional fuel line to go under the supercharger so you will still be able to use your engine cover and keep it looking stock.
guess if the stock look is not required it can be located above, to keep it cooler ..
Just take a look at the SLR fuel rail. It is a loop just like the TTM fuel rail.
I am always looking at her for inspiration.. LOL
sure, her fuel system is much more straight from what I can see from pictures:
- loop rail design
- 2 true pressure regulators attached with a vacuum nipple connected to each intercooler's outlet.( and a return line to the fuel tanks, I guess)
- 2 fuel pumps working in parallel for maximum capacity
but, in the end, if your system works good with benefits, that's just all we could look for.
just, me, would maybe prefer smaller injector, sLR like, for ease of tuning and its scaling down.
I got it ... just, in Europe the rule is the mechanic's view !
What you are referring to is a fuel pressure damper which smooths out the fuel from the turbulence that the open and closing of the injectors causes. The ECU controls the fuel pressure.
yes, that thing in the rail is just a damper. seems our true pressure regulator is, instead, embedded in the fuel filter. The return line too is there. And seems that weird system is not designed for achieving a pressure balance for both idle and wot conditions (whereas pressure regulators are usually intended for that).
True, the ECU seems receiving a signal from the "fuel tank pressure sensor" but I guess it's just a feedback while i am not sure the ecu can actively control it ?!
in any case, our fuel system seems very complicated, at least when not having it at hand.
Btw, our fuel pump, which is located on the passenger side, is a single unit or a twin body ?
I designed the additional fuel line to go under the supercharger so you will still be able to use your engine cover and keep it looking stock.
guess if the stock look is not required it can be located above, to keep it cooler ..
Just take a look at the SLR fuel rail. It is a loop just like the TTM fuel rail.
I am always looking at her for inspiration.. LOL
sure, her fuel system is much more straight from what I can see from pictures:
- loop rail design
- 2 true pressure regulators attached with a vacuum nipple connected to each intercooler's outlet.( and a return line to the fuel tanks, I guess)
- 2 fuel pumps working in parallel for maximum capacity
but, in the end, if your system works good with benefits, that's just all we could look for.
just, me, would maybe prefer smaller injector, sLR like, for ease of tuning and its scaling down.
Last edited by dyno; 03-03-2011 at 07:18 PM.
03-04-2011, 07:42 PM
#79
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03-05-2011, 05:01 AM
#81
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great
we have something interesting for reading.
so, did you fit'em in the 55 ?
... F430 is a totally different engine and car.
my point is: SLR parts are already tested and proved !
we have something interesting for reading.
so, did you fit'em in the 55 ?
... F430 is a totally different engine and car.
my point is: SLR parts are already tested and proved !
Last edited by dyno; 03-05-2011 at 05:03 AM.
03-05-2011, 08:04 PM
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03-05-2011, 08:53 PM
#83
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for sure those injectors are very nice but the critical element is the tuner.
maybe in your country you have more luck than me here where it's relatively easy to tune an F430 but not at all for an MB .
fortunately electronic mail is our friend for file-sharing so, if you have one really knowledgeable, please let me know
03-06-2011, 09:00 PM
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for sure those injectors are very nice but the critical element is the tuner.
maybe in your country you have more luck than me here where it's relatively easy to tune an F430 but not at all for an MB .
fortunately electronic mail is our friend for file-sharing so, if you have one really knowledgeable, please let me know
maybe in your country you have more luck than me here where it's relatively easy to tune an F430 but not at all for an MB .
fortunately electronic mail is our friend for file-sharing so, if you have one really knowledgeable, please let me know
By the way, has your ecu already been tuned?
If it is so, I think that I can do some advice via your tuner for the fuel adjustment.
03-06-2011, 10:43 PM
#85
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.. did not intend to get your OWN file.
btw, I see from the pdf that these injectors are available not only with the EV6 connector shown, but also with our classic jetronic (EV1) connector.
theerefore, seems there's no need to fit adapters ...
post a pic of your install !
03-07-2011, 01:02 AM
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But I have never seen it.
If you use the injector of attached photo, EV6 (USCAR) Female to EV1 Male connector is required.
03-07-2011, 06:44 AM
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03-07-2011, 12:28 PM
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05 crossfire w/SL55 drivetrain installed by Rudy Compart Intake/Needswings best et-10.76 @ 129
While we have had many differences in the past between TTM/Bruce and Eurocharged/Jerry, the bottom line is that we had a mutual client that was trying out our TTM prototype fuel rail and needed to put the past aside and get this injector/fuel rail package tuned. With that being said, I almost cancelled the order from the buyer(it was already paid for) when I found out that EC was tuning the car. I was very concerned that my injector/fuel rail package was going to be copied once it was seen by EC. The owner assured me that the cars hood would be chained down and that no one was going to be looking under the hood so I proceeded to complete the fuel rail fab work and ship out the package in time for Jerry to tune it. Since the owner was doing a 82mm upgrade too it was a very simple install. The person that set up the tuning day in Miami(Justin) was the person that sent the buyer(Al) to me so we could address the cylinder 8 issue and we have succeeded thanks in a large part to Jerry from Eurocharged!!!
We (sponsors) should be able to work together for the good of the Mercedes Benz community and, when we do, great things can happen. Within 45 seconds of our phone call the past was in the past and Jerry and I got together to brainstorm about the best way to go about getting the tuning done for this new set up. I have full flow sheets and all of the specs for this new injector and Jerry was given all of the information that he requested. He also gave me his word that he would recommend this package to his customers and send them my way for the purchase. He also told me that he would do a complete review in a thread and he has. He has been a man of his word and I commend him for that.
Thank you Justin and Al for making this happen but a sincere thank you has to go to Jerry for being able to put our differences aside and look to the future and for not harping on the past and getting this package tuned. Thanks Jerry!
The whole premise to this fuel rail set up is to help rectify the fuel starvation that happens to these high horsepower M113k's on the left side (#5-#8 cylinder). It is not just #8 but also #6 and #7 too. The fuel rail builds pressure from the ends of the fuel rail(#1 and #5) so when the stock injectors duty cycle is getting maxed out, it causes the left side of the rail to starve for fuel which restricts the amount of pressurize/volume in the rail back to the injectors. With the TTM fuel rail there is another ~12" of pressurized fuel in the rail so the volume is increased. With the larger injectors the duty cycle is lower and that gives the rail time to build the necessary pressure but this is also why you need the extra fuel from our rail. The feed line from the pump to the rail is very small in comparison to the size of the fuel rail so having an extra 12" of pressurized fuel and the lower duty cycle with the larger injectors all but eliminates the fuel starvation issues many people experience with these highly modified M113k's.
The injectors are a dual spray pattern which works exceptionally well with the 2 intake valve design head. As close to direct injection as you can get on these engines.
The TTM Injector/Fuel Rail Kit was developed to rectify the fuel starvation issues associated with highly modified M113k's and it gives you piece of mind to stay in the throttle when in Mexico or at the track!
We (sponsors) should be able to work together for the good of the Mercedes Benz community and, when we do, great things can happen. Within 45 seconds of our phone call the past was in the past and Jerry and I got together to brainstorm about the best way to go about getting the tuning done for this new set up. I have full flow sheets and all of the specs for this new injector and Jerry was given all of the information that he requested. He also gave me his word that he would recommend this package to his customers and send them my way for the purchase. He also told me that he would do a complete review in a thread and he has. He has been a man of his word and I commend him for that.
Thank you Justin and Al for making this happen but a sincere thank you has to go to Jerry for being able to put our differences aside and look to the future and for not harping on the past and getting this package tuned. Thanks Jerry!
The whole premise to this fuel rail set up is to help rectify the fuel starvation that happens to these high horsepower M113k's on the left side (#5-#8 cylinder). It is not just #8 but also #6 and #7 too. The fuel rail builds pressure from the ends of the fuel rail(#1 and #5) so when the stock injectors duty cycle is getting maxed out, it causes the left side of the rail to starve for fuel which restricts the amount of pressurize/volume in the rail back to the injectors. With the TTM fuel rail there is another ~12" of pressurized fuel in the rail so the volume is increased. With the larger injectors the duty cycle is lower and that gives the rail time to build the necessary pressure but this is also why you need the extra fuel from our rail. The feed line from the pump to the rail is very small in comparison to the size of the fuel rail so having an extra 12" of pressurized fuel and the lower duty cycle with the larger injectors all but eliminates the fuel starvation issues many people experience with these highly modified M113k's.
The injectors are a dual spray pattern which works exceptionally well with the 2 intake valve design head. As close to direct injection as you can get on these engines.
The TTM Injector/Fuel Rail Kit was developed to rectify the fuel starvation issues associated with highly modified M113k's and it gives you piece of mind to stay in the throttle when in Mexico or at the track!
note,, Bruce, I will need your set up soon, as Rudy accelerated ind, is in the process of installing a S55 amg engine, transmission, and all the goodies i need into my 2005 crossfire srt6, ..
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...ssfire-v8.html jim
Last edited by amx1397; 03-07-2011 at 12:31 PM.
03-07-2011, 08:42 PM
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03-09-2011, 02:01 PM
#92
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Bruce, please tell if your modded rail will fit also on stock injectors.
I mean, did you mod the injector fitting seats for adapting to possible differencies of those new injectors or is everything still good for stockers ..
any update on how it performs ?
I mean, did you mod the injector fitting seats for adapting to possible differencies of those new injectors or is everything still good for stockers ..
any update on how it performs ?
03-10-2011, 12:59 AM
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Compatible with Kleemann fuel kit and fuel rail?
I would love to get these but has anybody combined this kit with the Kleemann fuel kit (boost-a-bump, MAF controlle, voltage clamp, modified fuel rail) from their Autorotor SC kit?
Would it be overkill to have these 550cc injectors together with a boost-a-bump system?
I guess I may find out if Dyncomp runs into fuel starvation issues when increasing the current boost from 5psi to 14+psi. Tuning for my long tubes and custom duel 3' exhaust begins next week.
Would it be overkill to have these 550cc injectors together with a boost-a-bump system?
I guess I may find out if Dyncomp runs into fuel starvation issues when increasing the current boost from 5psi to 14+psi. Tuning for my long tubes and custom duel 3' exhaust begins next week.
03-10-2011, 11:17 AM
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03-10-2011, 02:33 PM
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03-11-2011, 11:52 AM
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Whatever we're tuning!
I would love to get these but has anybody combined this kit with the Kleemann fuel kit (boost-a-bump, MAF controlle, voltage clamp, modified fuel rail) from their Autorotor SC kit?
The kit is so new that any previous developed files for the 550cc injectors do not work with the custom fuel rail set up. Jerry explained that in his initial post.
Would it be overkill to have these 550cc injectors together with a boost-a-bump system?
It is more about the safety of the engine so I don't think anything is overkill to ensure the engine's longevity.
I guess I may find out if Dyncomp runs into fuel starvation issues when increasing the current boost from 5psi to 14+psi. Tuning for my long tubes and custom duel 3' exhaust begins next week.
The kit is so new that any previous developed files for the 550cc injectors do not work with the custom fuel rail set up. Jerry explained that in his initial post.
Would it be overkill to have these 550cc injectors together with a boost-a-bump system?
It is more about the safety of the engine so I don't think anything is overkill to ensure the engine's longevity.
I guess I may find out if Dyncomp runs into fuel starvation issues when increasing the current boost from 5psi to 14+psi. Tuning for my long tubes and custom duel 3' exhaust begins next week.
That is the plan and then you and Jerry can get to work getting this set up tuned in. Thank you Shardul for taking the initiative to team up with Jerry and get this done! Major props to you!
You also have an extra 12" of pressurized fuel(volume) in the rail, more consistent pressure to all of the injectors but a new configuration with the custom fuel rail so it is going to take some time, effort and talent to perfect this set up!
