220S

I'm one of those who said that. But it has nothing to do with not appreciating what's being done here. As I've said, I think it's great.

The point is what is the real objective in the end? Is it to make it a "M5 killer" or make it less expensive later down the road in respect to any potential airmatic repairs? Or maybe just a combination of a stiffer ride and not thinking about ever doing an airmatic repair down the road.

It won't be a "M5 killer" and it won't even come close to a "W212 E63 killer." The chassis is all wrong. The steering rack is all wrong. The E350 with steel suspension (which is being used as a 'reason' this can be done), is a bad chassis for handling and was designed as a soft car and a compromise car without the airmatic option. The W212 was totally redesigned (and an all new steering rack.) The front track is even wider. They tweaked the W211 E63 over the E55, so it does handle a lot better (and thicker sways and the steering ratio is different, too), but the W212 was re-designed completely.

Don't get me wrong, if somebody wants a stiffer ride and is out of warranty and wants to get away from an air suspension (or just doesn't like air suspension) then this is a great choice providing the initial costs and stiffer ride is worth it in the end. But there's still the steering, the massive body roll, and the weight distribution of the car that's not in its favor as a handling car (it just was never designed as such.)

I'm sure Sun will keep on working the chassis beyond the coil overs. The is only the first step. And that's why I want to follow this thread. What's next? Re-doing and replacing as much of the components as one can with this chassis design will be interesting to watch. In the end it will be more expensive then fixing any worn out Airmatics, but it may very well make the car more fun to drive despite its design, size, weight, etc..

(p.s., nobody will buy a used Airmatic system, so probably not something to figure into the cost/benefit calculation.)

Most people here have older W211s that are due for suspension repair and have no warranty, and don't like the idea of spending out of pocket money on Airmatic. If this is an alternative to replacing with new air components then that's all good

Too bad that the car wasn't timed around Streets of Willow or someplace and then timed again after the conversion. The car will certainly feel different on steel, but it would have been nice to know its actual quantitative improvement on a track

Faast

I never knew M5 or W212 is a track killer. Any car that weighs more than 4000 lbs could never be competitive at any friggen tract regardless of what steering rack they have,how wide the front track is or or how thick the sway bars are,period.

Besides,the OP has already mentioned several hundred times in this thread,that he is only trying to improve the suspension reliability and anything else would be just bonus.

Since tracking the car has never been the OP's goal so,it's pointless comparing the track time.

Hope that helps...

To Benzoboi, happy and you are Da Man even though it would never be a ///M5 Killer

220S

Totally. None of them are "track killers" and I have no clue why that even ever came up

I brought up the idea of track time comparison between the "before and after" conversion only because I think it would be great to know if there's actual quantitative differences. A skid pad test or slalom test would be better though, and just interesting to see the differences.

Interestingly enough the skid pad between the W211 E63 and the W212 E63 is .84g versus .90g. When the 2006 M5 was tested it was .84g, too.

Question to ask is if Airmatic was guaranteed to never need replacing, how many people would still prefer a conventional steel suspension? I hate to admit it, but when I'm going from my BMW or my Porsche to my E63 I actually appreciate the Airmatic ride.

AMG_RL

Tell that to the guy with a 81 caddy deville at the local auto-x events that keeps up with most of the track prepped STi's, EVO's, and P-cars. anythings possible with enough $$$ and a BADASS DRIVER.

Faast

Any picts of the Carina

nlpamg

wtf? I need to see this.

AMG_RL

ask and you shall receive







and this is how I found it:




the motors gonna be a carb turbo 3tc, should be putting down about 550RWHP once finished and hopefully mids 9's

I think I might have a couple vids of his runs, lemme check my old HD. but this is another great example of a friggin' boat that hauls I found back in the day when I had my Suby: http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...addy+autocross

wsybert

That car is so cool. I like the early '70 toyota's. They have such a simple classic look.

BenzoBoi

This just in...Word on the street is that the car handles VERY well. Apparently night and day. My friend didn't have a chance to take a turn too hard but he said that driving in a straight line and takin a turn at a decent speed was night and day. Well see how it is when I pick it up friday. I'll have to wait and see how it does, but the drive around the block was AWESOME...or so I hear

I'll see what's needed under star but I heard it was pretty straight forward. I'll update you guys.

Enjoy!

AMG_RL

wooooooott! That's awesome sun! So everything finished with the install? Any electrical issues?

nlpamg

siiiick!

and woo! OEM AMG sideskirts FTW!

BenzoBoi

Ultimately I just want the car to be more reliable. I will take the car to the track occasionally here and there but only for the personally enjoyment of takin a chubby 4 door out. I actually signed up for an event in about 2 weeks. Really excited.

I have taken the car around buttonwillow once but never got around to do a full on actual lap. Too many people on the track to get one clean run. Without trying too hard, I was able to get a 1:24. It is unfortunate that I wasn't able to get a full on run there.
Hey...I figure there will always be someone faster in some departments. I'm happy to PWN M5's in a straight line.
Everything is finished. I'm not sure if there were any particular electrical issues but I'll find out when I pick up the car.

ShangoAshe

congrats I can't wait to hear what YOUR personal experience would be like with the new setup!

good job

Jakpro1

How the heck are you guys getting around the **** ECU. I thought it would have a heart attack not seeing it's precious safety airmatic?? It's just so woven into the car functions. This is just incredible guys!!

Amazing!!

e500slr

You know I don't mind the look of the W212 and I'm not doubting the new E63 is more refined, however have you looked at the thing. It's not a bad looking car but there's just something not quite Mercedes about it, it's kind of like the new STi, it completely changed the shape and it's just not what people imagine when thinking about an STi. Now I know the E55 isn't a track car but neither is the CLK and Mercedes managed to make the black a competent car. Sure it's much wider and most of the suspension and steering components are different however the base car is still the same. It's not lighter either. Now you're saying get an M5 if you want a good chassis, but the thing is alot of us actually love the W211, maybe you haven't warmed up to it but personally I hate the M5 interior, exterior and engine, it's not a bad engine but around town the gearbox is irritating. But that's just my opinion.

By the way about selling the Airmatic, there's always going to be people with failing Airmatics hence the reason we're changing them, but not everyone will put coilovers. Some people like the Airmatics "mattress" ride. Old people for example. Sure buying from a dealer is better for them but if you make it a little cheaper you'll still make some of what you lost. I mean it's not like you have any other options right? Why keep it so sell it.

220S

Yep. The reason I'm behind the wheel of a 2009 W211 is because I can't (and still can't) quite stomach the new design (plus the interior.) The W212 E63 was going on sale in about 6 months from when I bought my car. I could have waited but I wanted the W211 body style and interior. Plus I got a giant discount off MSRP. But the W212 has a better handling chassis, that's for certain. Have you driven one? You'd be surprised; the car feels pretty nimble for what it is....

I personally wouldn't get the M5 (hey, I'm in a W211 now) although I'm curious to see the new F10 M5 coming soon. The F10 550i is pretty nice.

But to be truly honest, I actually like the Airmatic. Especially with the p030 option (I think when I need to replace Airmatic I'll do it with the p030 valved Airmatic, if it's possible.) In Sport II mode it's fine for a big heavy weight pig car; steering ratio is also good.

It's a nice change from my other cars which are really stiff (one is a 993 that has PSS-10s and stiff polyurethane CA bushings. It handles like a go-kart but it will smash your spine after a while.) So the W211 makes for a really civil and great cruiser. That's what I mean about better options for more hard-core driver's input cars. Not that the W211 is bad, but it's not designed for anything other than what it is. And so I just accept it for what it is and just use something else for real driving...

e500slr

BenzoBoi that picture is AWESOME!!! It sits really well. Congrats, tell us how it rides.

PS. It looks really sleek sitting there.

jayhawkblk

This is exciting now all I need is a list of parts so I can get this done. The air ride makes me nervous. I would hate for that thing to dump while doing 90 on I 10.

BenzoBoi

Thanks. I'll be pickin up the car on friday so I'll have a full write up on what I feel/think soon after!
I'll find out exactly what my buddy did and let you guys know. As far as I know, he said it was pretty straight forward?
Thanks! I had the guys make it sit about half a finger higher before. Once the springs settle a bit(If they do) I'll fine adjust it then.
I'll get you and everyone the info soon.

ssonss1

Major props! Many talked about it but damn you just got er done in a few days!

BenzoBoi

Thanks! I just got tired of all the talk about it without any action. I heard some people were workin on it but never got any updates. I got tired of waitin and thought I'd give it a go.

Big kudos to my shop for being able to handle the install.

tbal

INSANE! Full review! Man wish I could drive it lol, would be intresting see the performance difference.

reitmeid

Wow....what a thread. I think you should have titled the thread "A Treatise on Anti-Airmatic Behavior". Seriously...don't know you personally but you rock!! As soon as you post the parts list I'm going to start ordering. Busy times ahead.. I'm doing a veg conversion to my W123 dt, and now a coilover conversion to the E55. Talk about 2 bulletproof cars. Thanks a million for your pioneering efforts, and your open source attitude to sharing with us.

Forrest Gump 9

Very good news! I'll be following your footstep soon.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

with STAR all you have to do is select steel suspension
control units > chassis > suspension