YES YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR OIL MORE OFTEN!!!!
10-08-2011, 10:10 AM
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YES YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR OIL MORE OFTEN!!!!
I cannot tell you how many customers want to change there oil every 15,000 miles. I tell them that you need to change your oil way more often then that and their answer is always that there BMW can go 15,000 miles on synthetic oil.
The real answer is that BMW is trying to sell more cars. In order to sell more cars they came up with this new scheme. Why don't we include the maintenance into every new car that we sell in our warranty. We will tell the customers and program the service lights to come on every 15,000 miles. Customers will be happy because they can drive there car without a bill for the length of the warranty. Now, it's cool that we are selling more cars because we are including maintenance and we only really have to do 2 oil changes during the length of the warranty anyway but the really cool part is how we will sell more cars later.
Because we only do the oil changes every 15,000 miles now, more engines are going to start to fail earlier than usual. They will easily last the length of the lease and warranty with this maintenance schedule but it wont be long before they need costly repairs to keep them on the road. Once that happens the car will come off the road and we will sell another car to replace it.
One of the first things they teach you in business class is about how you don't want to make your product last too long because you will put yourself out of business.
CHANGE YOUR OIL OFTEN, use good oils and filters and your engine will give back to you many times more than what those extra oil changes cost you.
The real answer is that BMW is trying to sell more cars. In order to sell more cars they came up with this new scheme. Why don't we include the maintenance into every new car that we sell in our warranty. We will tell the customers and program the service lights to come on every 15,000 miles. Customers will be happy because they can drive there car without a bill for the length of the warranty. Now, it's cool that we are selling more cars because we are including maintenance and we only really have to do 2 oil changes during the length of the warranty anyway but the really cool part is how we will sell more cars later.
Because we only do the oil changes every 15,000 miles now, more engines are going to start to fail earlier than usual. They will easily last the length of the lease and warranty with this maintenance schedule but it wont be long before they need costly repairs to keep them on the road. Once that happens the car will come off the road and we will sell another car to replace it.
One of the first things they teach you in business class is about how you don't want to make your product last too long because you will put yourself out of business.
CHANGE YOUR OIL OFTEN, use good oils and filters and your engine will give back to you many times more than what those extra oil changes cost you.
Last edited by Staff@RPM; 10-08-2011 at 10:13 AM.
10-08-2011, 10:26 AM
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2005 E55 AMG
I STRONGLY disagree...I know for a FACT that oil, even after 15,000 miles, will still be good. Especially since BMW's ( just like MB ) have HUGE quantities of it in their engines ( there is a good reason why I have 9 freaking quarts of very expensive oil in my engine ). There also tends to be a time table on oil changes as well, not just mileage which most people DON'T follow.
I remember once doing a study on some cars ( a few BMW's and a Benz ) where their owners were claiming that the extended oil schedule caused their engines to die. Upon investigation this, we sent oil samples to some labs and it turned out that they were ALL using regular $3/quart dino oil and not synthetic oils and extending their use to 10-15K miles.
My brother has been a mechanic for over 20 years and he has yet to see a SINGLE ( NOT ONE ) failure due to extended oil changes when using PROPER OILS.
Your claim that BMW would purposefully make their engines crap out due to extended oil service is absurd...it would only tarnish the brands reputation if a bunch of engines starting crapping out due to cruddy oil.
I remember once doing a study on some cars ( a few BMW's and a Benz ) where their owners were claiming that the extended oil schedule caused their engines to die. Upon investigation this, we sent oil samples to some labs and it turned out that they were ALL using regular $3/quart dino oil and not synthetic oils and extending their use to 10-15K miles.
My brother has been a mechanic for over 20 years and he has yet to see a SINGLE ( NOT ONE ) failure due to extended oil changes when using PROPER OILS.
Your claim that BMW would purposefully make their engines crap out due to extended oil service is absurd...it would only tarnish the brands reputation if a bunch of engines starting crapping out due to cruddy oil.
Last edited by GT-ER; 10-08-2011 at 10:28 AM.
10-08-2011, 10:31 AM
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2005 E55 AMG
BTW- My mothers C240 gets an oil change once a year ( about every 12-15K miles, which is over the limit MB specs at ) and it has 80,000 miles. I did a valve cover gasket swap the other day and it was BRAND SPANKING CLEAN inside. It looked like a 5,000 mile engine. She will continue to change her oil once a year.
She uses Mobil 1 and an oem filter....that makes all the difference.
She uses Mobil 1 and an oem filter....that makes all the difference.
10-08-2011, 10:36 AM
#5
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On both of my benzes, i change every 10k miles with Mobil 1 European. As far as my previous cars, i used regular dino and change 4k miles and ran them 242k miles, 192k miles. Still have my car with 192k, but the other died after getting hit by a trash truck.
10-08-2011, 10:44 AM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
I cannot tell you how many customers want to change there oil every 15,000 miles. I tell them that you need to change your oil way more often then that and their answer is always that there BMW can go 15,000 miles on synthetic oil.
The real answer is that BMW is trying to sell more cars. In order to sell more cars they came up with this new scheme. Why don't we include the maintenance into every new car that we sell in our warranty. We will tell the customers and program the service lights to come on every 15,000 miles. Customers will be happy because they can drive there car without a bill for the length of the warranty. Now, it's cool that we are selling more cars because we are including maintenance and we only really have to do 2 oil changes during the length of the warranty anyway but the really cool part is how we will sell more cars later.
Because we only do the oil changes every 15,000 miles now, more engines are going to start to fail earlier than usual. They will easily last the length of the lease and warranty with this maintenance schedule but it wont be long before they need costly repairs to keep them on the road. Once that happens the car will come off the road and we will sell another car to replace it.
One of the first things they teach you in business class is about how you don't want to make your product last too long because you will put yourself out of business.
CHANGE YOUR OIL OFTEN, use good oils and filters and your engine will give back to you many times more than what those extra oil changes cost you.
The real answer is that BMW is trying to sell more cars. In order to sell more cars they came up with this new scheme. Why don't we include the maintenance into every new car that we sell in our warranty. We will tell the customers and program the service lights to come on every 15,000 miles. Customers will be happy because they can drive there car without a bill for the length of the warranty. Now, it's cool that we are selling more cars because we are including maintenance and we only really have to do 2 oil changes during the length of the warranty anyway but the really cool part is how we will sell more cars later.
Because we only do the oil changes every 15,000 miles now, more engines are going to start to fail earlier than usual. They will easily last the length of the lease and warranty with this maintenance schedule but it wont be long before they need costly repairs to keep them on the road. Once that happens the car will come off the road and we will sell another car to replace it.
One of the first things they teach you in business class is about how you don't want to make your product last too long because you will put yourself out of business.
CHANGE YOUR OIL OFTEN, use good oils and filters and your engine will give back to you many times more than what those extra oil changes cost you.
Any idiot can go out and say that you should change your oil every 5k miles, and another can say you can go 25k miles.
Without evidence, its all BS.
Furthermore, it depends completely how the car is used (short trips, lots of idling, extreme temps) and the modifications, state of tune, etc on the engine (level of fuel dillution, poor filtration from cotton gauze filters, extra heat from engine oil fed turbo/supercharger, etc)
Blanket statements like this are dangerous.
In my opinion, based on a number of used oil analyses, many stock performance engines can run between 8 to 10k between oil changes without any fear of oil related problems.
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10-08-2011, 10:57 AM
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3-five-five/ TUNDRA/ 07 997 cab
what evidence do you have? Are you performing UOAs on these cars?
Any idiot can go out and say that you should change your oil every 5k miles, and another can say you can go 25k miles.
Without evidence, its all BS.
Furthermore, it depends completely how the car is used (short trips, lots of idling, extreme temps) and the modifications, state of tune, etc on the engine (level of fuel dillution, poor filtration from cotton gauze filters, extra heat from engine oil fed turbo/supercharger, etc)
Blanket statements like this are dangerous.
In my opinion, based on a number of used oil analyses, many stock performance engines can run between 8 to 10k between oil changes without any fear of oil related problems.
Any idiot can go out and say that you should change your oil every 5k miles, and another can say you can go 25k miles.
Without evidence, its all BS.
Furthermore, it depends completely how the car is used (short trips, lots of idling, extreme temps) and the modifications, state of tune, etc on the engine (level of fuel dillution, poor filtration from cotton gauze filters, extra heat from engine oil fed turbo/supercharger, etc)
Blanket statements like this are dangerous.
In my opinion, based on a number of used oil analyses, many stock performance engines can run between 8 to 10k between oil changes without any fear of oil related problems.
10-08-2011, 11:07 AM
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I have taken quite a lot of engines apart here and I can tell the difference between customers that change there oil often and customers that do not. You can often tell from the smell as soon as you take the valve covers off and the stains that are on the aluminum.
With today's newer cars and turbocharged engines the oil is going to break down even faster. A new BMW X5 will burn through about 5 quarts of oil before it even gets to 15,000 miles. I have several customers with them and they are adding a quart of oil around every 3000 miles.
You can change your oil every 15,000 miles if that's what you want to do but I check the oil every time it drains (not scientifically ) and it is often left with little lubricity on the finger test where I wouldn't want it in my engine.
I see the cars, I see inside the engines, I often take the valve covers off on these cars and you can tell who needs to do there oil changes more often. I don't care what the oil is like in the lab after 15,000 miles, I care what the inside of my engine looks like and smells like after waiting that long. The oil I am throwing out, the engine I plan on keeping.
With today's newer cars and turbocharged engines the oil is going to break down even faster. A new BMW X5 will burn through about 5 quarts of oil before it even gets to 15,000 miles. I have several customers with them and they are adding a quart of oil around every 3000 miles.
You can change your oil every 15,000 miles if that's what you want to do but I check the oil every time it drains (not scientifically ) and it is often left with little lubricity on the finger test where I wouldn't want it in my engine.
I see the cars, I see inside the engines, I often take the valve covers off on these cars and you can tell who needs to do there oil changes more often. I don't care what the oil is like in the lab after 15,000 miles, I care what the inside of my engine looks like and smells like after waiting that long. The oil I am throwing out, the engine I plan on keeping.
10-08-2011, 11:09 AM
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10-08-2011, 11:20 AM
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good debate guys and keep it up...need to spice this place up.
i change my oil every 5K miles just because and since the car is so expensive...why not? synthetic oil doesn't break down and does last longer based on research that is out there so if you want to go longer and avoid the stealer, it's up to you.
i change my oil every 5K miles just because and since the car is so expensive...why not? synthetic oil doesn't break down and does last longer based on research that is out there so if you want to go longer and avoid the stealer, it's up to you.
10-08-2011, 11:37 AM
#16
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I keep things pretty simple... I follow the FSS indicator.
15K is too long, 5K is too premature.
The way I see it, the MB engineers had a much better clue as to the predicted wear rates than I do. The FSS adapts based on driving style, so the harder you drive the sooner the FSS will alert you.
Every 7,000 miles or so, I change it once the FSS alerts me.
I never had an issue with changing the oil every 7K, because it gives me an opportunity to be under the car and give everything else a once-over while I'm under there. If I only inspect my car once a year, it leaves a much wider margin for things to fail/need replacing w/o me knowing until it's too late.
My grandmother went to the doctor three times in her life, and one was a coroner. She liver to 84.
My uncle was a hypochondriac and died at 56 from an OD. So there are anecdotal cases for both sides.
Personally, with my machines, ignorance is NOT bliss and I enjoy the peace of mind from the regular maintenance.
The oil might last 15K, but the oil filter is another story. It can only trap so much, and then what?
15K is too long, 5K is too premature.
The way I see it, the MB engineers had a much better clue as to the predicted wear rates than I do. The FSS adapts based on driving style, so the harder you drive the sooner the FSS will alert you.
Every 7,000 miles or so, I change it once the FSS alerts me.
I never had an issue with changing the oil every 7K, because it gives me an opportunity to be under the car and give everything else a once-over while I'm under there. If I only inspect my car once a year, it leaves a much wider margin for things to fail/need replacing w/o me knowing until it's too late.
My grandmother went to the doctor three times in her life, and one was a coroner. She liver to 84.
My uncle was a hypochondriac and died at 56 from an OD. So there are anecdotal cases for both sides.
Personally, with my machines, ignorance is NOT bliss and I enjoy the peace of mind from the regular maintenance.
The oil might last 15K, but the oil filter is another story. It can only trap so much, and then what?
10-08-2011, 11:47 AM
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Todays detergents lubricants are not the same as the ones we were using 5 years ago.
Take ******* Techron for example. That was considered the best fuel injection cleaner on the market years ago and it probably earned that right. They developed a brand name for themselves by doing such a good job, because of that a lot of people used it. Fast forward to today. ******* Techron is still a commercially available product and it is still considered the best product to clean your fuel system by many people. What changed is the chemicals that are used in the product. They changed the chemicals that are used in the product because they want to sell the product in all 50 states, in order to do so they had to make a 50 state legal product. Certain chemicals are not legal in certain states so those chemicals had to be changed. Those are some of the chemicals that make the product work so well. They make a name for themselves, then they use the brand recognition to sell to the masses but the product that they made there name on has now changed. If you think that lubricants are not subject to these laws too, you are mistaken. Many of the greatest parts of these lubricants are no longer allowed to be used in all 50 states. There are plenty of lubricants that are not legal for sale in all 50 states and that has to make you wonder. Oil is a big business and the bottom line at these oil companies is the most important thing on there minds. We live in a competitive environment and marketing professionals do their best to sell a product.
The same goes with all chemical products and, as the laws change, the products do too.
What has changed a lot in the automotive world is the engine manufacturing process. The finishing of metals has come a long way. Cylinder walls today and cylinder walls from 10 years ago are different. I suppose this leads to longer ring life and improved engine efficiency too.
All I can do is make choices based on common sense and my common sense tells me to change my oil more often from what i am seeing. I do not use Mobil One in my car anymore, I use Motul nowadays, it is still bottled overseas and I like the way it feels when it come out of my pan when compared to Mobil One. Even knowing that it feels better and knowing that it is a full synthetic oil, I still change it between 5K-7K because I feel that's what will keep my engine healthy and happy.
Take ******* Techron for example. That was considered the best fuel injection cleaner on the market years ago and it probably earned that right. They developed a brand name for themselves by doing such a good job, because of that a lot of people used it. Fast forward to today. ******* Techron is still a commercially available product and it is still considered the best product to clean your fuel system by many people. What changed is the chemicals that are used in the product. They changed the chemicals that are used in the product because they want to sell the product in all 50 states, in order to do so they had to make a 50 state legal product. Certain chemicals are not legal in certain states so those chemicals had to be changed. Those are some of the chemicals that make the product work so well. They make a name for themselves, then they use the brand recognition to sell to the masses but the product that they made there name on has now changed. If you think that lubricants are not subject to these laws too, you are mistaken. Many of the greatest parts of these lubricants are no longer allowed to be used in all 50 states. There are plenty of lubricants that are not legal for sale in all 50 states and that has to make you wonder. Oil is a big business and the bottom line at these oil companies is the most important thing on there minds. We live in a competitive environment and marketing professionals do their best to sell a product.
The same goes with all chemical products and, as the laws change, the products do too.
What has changed a lot in the automotive world is the engine manufacturing process. The finishing of metals has come a long way. Cylinder walls today and cylinder walls from 10 years ago are different. I suppose this leads to longer ring life and improved engine efficiency too.
All I can do is make choices based on common sense and my common sense tells me to change my oil more often from what i am seeing. I do not use Mobil One in my car anymore, I use Motul nowadays, it is still bottled overseas and I like the way it feels when it come out of my pan when compared to Mobil One. Even knowing that it feels better and knowing that it is a full synthetic oil, I still change it between 5K-7K because I feel that's what will keep my engine healthy and happy.
Last edited by Staff@RPM; 10-08-2011 at 11:55 AM.
10-08-2011, 11:57 AM
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2007 E63, 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi
I'm more with Hammer on this. I changed it every 6 months (5K miles tops, usually less) or depending on how I've been using the car, even sooner...Gives a chance to really pick up chicks in the C300 loaner 
10-08-2011, 12:24 PM
#20
I STRONGLY disagree...I know for a FACT that oil, even after 15,000 miles, will still be good. Especially since BMW's ( just like MB ) have HUGE quantities of it in their engines ( there is a good reason why I have 9 freaking quarts of very expensive oil in my engine ). There also tends to be a time table on oil changes as well, not just mileage which most people DON'T follow.
I remember once doing a study on some cars ( a few BMW's and a Benz ) where their owners were claiming that the extended oil schedule caused their engines to die. Upon investigation this, we sent oil samples to some labs and it turned out that they were ALL using regular $3/quart dino oil and not synthetic oils and extending their use to 10-15K miles.
My brother has been a mechanic for over 20 years and he has yet to see a SINGLE ( NOT ONE ) failure due to extended oil changes when using PROPER OILS.
Your claim that BMW would purposefully make their engines crap out due to extended oil service is absurd...it would only tarnish the brands reputation if a bunch of engines starting crapping out due to cruddy oil.
I remember once doing a study on some cars ( a few BMW's and a Benz ) where their owners were claiming that the extended oil schedule caused their engines to die. Upon investigation this, we sent oil samples to some labs and it turned out that they were ALL using regular $3/quart dino oil and not synthetic oils and extending their use to 10-15K miles.
My brother has been a mechanic for over 20 years and he has yet to see a SINGLE ( NOT ONE ) failure due to extended oil changes when using PROPER OILS.
Your claim that BMW would purposefully make their engines crap out due to extended oil service is absurd...it would only tarnish the brands reputation if a bunch of engines starting crapping out due to cruddy oil.
After 12k and two track days, the oil was well within spec.
For anyone interested in monitoring the long term quality of their oil, there is the company that will do that for you for cheap ($25 or less per analysis): http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Last edited by timeToy; 10-08-2011 at 12:27 PM.
10-08-2011, 12:46 PM
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2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
I STRONGLY disagree...I know for a FACT that oil, even after 15,000 miles, will still be good. Especially since BMW's ( just like MB ) have HUGE quantities of it in their engines ( there is a good reason why I have 9 freaking quarts of very expensive oil in my engine ). There also tends to be a time table on oil changes as well, not just mileage which most people DON'T follow.
I remember once doing a study on some cars ( a few BMW's and a Benz ) where their owners were claiming that the extended oil schedule caused their engines to die. Upon investigation this, we sent oil samples to some labs and it turned out that they were ALL using regular $3/quart dino oil and not synthetic oils and extending their use to 10-15K miles.
My brother has been a mechanic for over 20 years and he has yet to see a SINGLE ( NOT ONE ) failure due to extended oil changes when using PROPER OILS.
Your claim that BMW would purposefully make their engines crap out due to extended oil service is absurd...it would only tarnish the brands reputation if a bunch of engines starting crapping out due to cruddy oil.
I remember once doing a study on some cars ( a few BMW's and a Benz ) where their owners were claiming that the extended oil schedule caused their engines to die. Upon investigation this, we sent oil samples to some labs and it turned out that they were ALL using regular $3/quart dino oil and not synthetic oils and extending their use to 10-15K miles.
My brother has been a mechanic for over 20 years and he has yet to see a SINGLE ( NOT ONE ) failure due to extended oil changes when using PROPER OILS.
Your claim that BMW would purposefully make their engines crap out due to extended oil service is absurd...it would only tarnish the brands reputation if a bunch of engines starting crapping out due to cruddy oil.
Synthetics and improved filters provide a large order of magnitude of improvement in lubricating technology, not to mention improved metallurgy. I have been using oil analysis for more than 30 years from aircraft to race motors. I have a complete record on all of my vehicles and I can tell you that using Mobil-1 ( and there are other excellent synthetics) there is virtually no difference in the reports (which are perfect) whether the oil was used for 6000 or 10000 miles. I've personally seen MB cylinder walls from 120K miles engines with virtually NO wear and NO ridge. Not necessarily because it was an MB, but because of the high quality lubricant IMHO.
10-08-2011, 01:14 PM
#22
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I look at it this way, in my Acura TSX I commute about 500 miles a week and I change my oil every 5000-7500 miles and after every oil change I can tell the difference and I use Mobil 1 synthetic 10-40w and I'm pretty sure our 55K engines produce wayyyyy more heat than my 4cyl.
10-08-2011, 02:18 PM
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Yikes 15K?? That just seems a bit much to me. I roll a little under 10K as I don't ever put 10k a year on my car. It's an 03 with 43K on the odom.
One thing we can all agree on. Certainly changing your oil more often HAS to be better than less often. To what degree will have to be left to the flame wars.
Carry on.
One thing we can all agree on. Certainly changing your oil more often HAS to be better than less often. To what degree will have to be left to the flame wars.
Carry on.
10-08-2011, 02:37 PM
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3-five-five/ TUNDRA/ 07 997 cab
TURD!!!!! https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...challenge.html
Last edited by emoving; 10-08-2011 at 02:42 PM.
10-08-2011, 02:44 PM
#25
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bahahaDas Geld dont know what your point is? The s550 was/is more $ than the e55. Doesn't make it a better car lol
