Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

According to Weistec the 6.2 system uses the identical supercharger head unit and identical intercooler core as the newly released 55k system. I wonder what the IATs are on that 139mph CLK?

There are a few differences in the context however.
One is that the 6.2 kits (which cost double the 55 kits) come with the complete intercooler system already, while the 55s either use the stock 55 system, or use an optional upgraded trunk tank system, or use whatever mechanical potpourri the customer comes up with.

The other difference is the plenum in which the IC core sits. Perhaps it is identical, but it appears at least slightly different, and there is a possibility that one flows superior air around the IC core than the other due to more or less depth of the available real estate in the engine block's valley.

skratch77

Nice first post

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

I hear what you're saying, the tuner is the one who gets the finger pointed at him because often, the tuner is the one brought in as a third party. For example an entire build could occur all under one roof from the assembly of an engine to the install, but there are much fewer tuners than there are mechanics. So the super dooper merlin the motherfawkken magic tuner is brought in to shake his laptop full of sparkling tuning elixir on the powertrain, so when disaster strikes the nproblem clearly has to be the guy with the voodoo computer. He got im some bad juju

Clearly it can't be my fault so therefore it must be the tune.

Not to say there aren't a fair share of zombie tuners out there looking to cash in. You say you're an Ls1 guy, how many times have you seen this :

someone is looking to get a car tuned, and the Rent-A-Hero tuner comes in with an HP or EFIL tune he grabbed from a repository that was a similar combination, sets the CI and injector size, and makes a dyno hit. Rent-A-Hero looks at the little AFR squiggly line and sees it goes too low or too high in this spot or that, and changes the target AFR table in the other direction to band aid the corrections into pulling the AFR into the safe zone instead of writing a VE table because that requires lots of changes to other crazy screens which he might not know what to do with. Then he plays with the timing at peak power until it makes the highest number show on the nasty old shop computer screen, collects his reward and takes a bow, signs some **** on the groupies and dips out.

However next month when the weather changes and the car actually needs the correction values he just borrowed to tune,or a sensor fails and correction goes flat, all of a sudden things aren't seeming so glorious in his kingdom anymore.

adianaty

One major difference we are forgetting is that the 55 kit comes at 17psi where as the 63 kit comes in at around 8-10 because of the 63 compression. Also the IAT's won't scale directly due to the added volume that the 63 engines need. It is in a completely different operating range than in the case of our motors. Of course ecambpell's car maybe at 17psi or more, but still the data is probably not apples to apples due to the volume differences. Too bad whipple doesn't provide their compressor maps or else we could see/guess where they are both at...

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

You're right, the compressor on the 6.2 could be spinning the same rpm making 8-10 psi due to displacement and different cylinder heads, or it could be considerably less rpm. Then there's the variable of heating air just from being compressed at a higher pressure, who knows.

msheredy

The Weistec kit comes with a new intercooler like the 6.2s however it does tie into the factory coolant lines as the OEM does.

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

You are mistaken.

Edit- you might just be confused as to what I was talking about. The 6.2 kit comes with the complete intercooling system from a reservoir to the hoses to the front mount heat exchanger to the coolant pump and relays. The 55 kit comes with only the supercharger and it's encapsulated IC core in that regard.

sack5000

Nice to see Weistec post into this thread. A quality company will always stand behind what they sell. The op does have good points but not easily understood. Trying to keep emotion out with a blown engine is impossible. Should we take up a collection........

RedBullJnky

I was there when the SLR ran. It is NOT on nitrous.
Welcome! Very well said!
We should. But some clowns would rather bump their gums instead of helping the op. I remember all the help I got when I blew my trans. So I will ALWAYS return the favor.

ajm55

I've received loads of support, advice and good wishes not only on the forum but also via PMs. To the members concerned

Anyone whose been here knows how crippling a blown motor can be financially (esp when one doesn't have access in one's home town to the parts and skills required to do a proper restoration). RBJ and sack5000, the invitation to take up a collection warms the heart brothas. . However, while I'll take all the advice and guidance on offer here, I would not be comfortable at all having others chip in financially. I took the decision to play, so I must pay. I'm pleased to say that Weistec and I are "playing speaks" again. Hopefully I'll be up and running before long.

gaspam

i am one of that 1/2 that didn't think it was on nitrous

RedBullJnky

That is awesome news! I know you will be stronger than ever when it's all done. Don't hesitate to call me if you need anything.

SavMan

Of course no tuner wants to pop an engine but what separates an average tuning company from a good one is how they deal with the situation when things do go wrong. Weistec's posts on this forum in response to this made me think that they just wanted to blame everyone else.

SavMan

Good luck with everything, good to see that Weistec have come to there senses and "playing speaks" again.

ajm55

Much appreciated SavMan

msheredy

Nope not confused at all LOL. Perhaps I was just thrown off when you said this

In this context I took it as you thought the factory intercooler was still utilized thats all.

MBenzEnthusiast

I have a strong feeling OE Tuning is just spreading propaganda. Yes there is a risk of blowing an engine as with any blower. Sometimes the user wants more boost then is recommended and these things happen. I only have a ECU Tune from Weistec on ML63 and its amazing, but if a buyer of a Weistec Blower makes the mistake to do whats not recommended by Weistec they cant point fingers at Weistec when they are to blame. Weistec needs to join this thread and set things unbiasedly straight. Look at their vehicles and that should be enough proof.

layzie12g

I hate to sound cold hearted on this, but I need to speak my opinion.

Do you think you guys are the first and only people to put a bigger supercharger/turbo on your car and then suffer engine failure? I'm so confused by this. Unless this package FULLY AND COMPLETELY installed, tuned, and guaranteed X,XXX amount of miles by Weistec I do not even see where your blame is pointed.

You modified a very expensive German engine with after market parts to increase performance. For whatever reason it failed. Unless the rotors in the supercharger came apart and fell in to your engine I see no reason Weistec would take any responsibility.

YOU TOOK THE RISK OF HAVING OTHER PEOPLE MODIFY/TUNE YOUR CAR. Do you think the tuner would admit if they made a mistake? Do you think a mechanic would admit if they made a mistake? I have seen well known tuners make horrible mistakes that have cost their customers their engine. Do you think for one second they let any one except the small circle around them know? Absolutely not. They passed blame on just like every one else does when in reality it was no ones fault but their own. At the end of the day they are not going to eat the cost. Every place/tuner that owns a dyno that I have ever seen has a waiver stating there is NO RESPONSIBILITY on their part if your engine fails. Even if it is their fault.

I've been building race/street cars for a very long time. It feels like the people in the European genre do not understand the risk that comes along with this game. They are so quick to place blame on everyone, but themselves. This can turn in to a very expensive game very quick. Most of the cars I work with have $5-10,000 long blocks. These Benz/BMW/Porsche long blocks can exceed $50,000 to replace from the dealer before labor. Of course your going to **** a brick when they fail. You should not modify your car if you do not want the risk. Not a tune, not an exhaust, not a damn thing if you do not want the responsibility. Then when you drive your car like its a race car and it breaks like a race car you stand a chance to have the dealer cover some of the cost. That is if your lucky...

It's funny how people like to point fingers at the installers, then the tuner, and then the manufacturer when in reality they have very little idea about what has really been done/not done to their car. I have seen a person ruin a $20,000 Supra build because they didn't scale the injectors before they started the car for the first time and blamed the whole ****ing universe except their own stupid self.

Ask Mercedes what they will say if you ask them to warranty an engine (BONE STOCK) failure out of warranty. Next question will be "Well why did my bone stock car fail with only XX,XXX miles on it????" They can give you whatever reason, but at the end of the day you are the one that is SOL.
Remember this is coming from a multi-billion dollar company. If you think an aftermarket performance company worth a fraction of a true corporation is going to cover your expense, your ****ing crazy.

All I'm saying is think it through before you modify your German car. Fully understand exactly what you are doing and the risk you are taking before you do it.

MBenzEnthusiast

Couldn't have been said any better

sack5000

Hallelujah, PTL, great points and they should be well taken by all. Come on guys, since Weistec is the only real and reliable power upgrade that most people are satisfied with, why continue to cry over your own failure to manage the process correctly.

skratch77

and how many e55s are running with this kit?

Ted Baldwin

.......I think you might not be familiar with the Mercedes Benz tuner community. Your impression of Mecedes Benz owners is uninformed. Many more things go wrong that owners don't report. Intact the culture here is to keep quiet, not complain and to protect the reputation, of the tuner. Your conclusions are the opposite if what actually is taking place. I know people who have spent tens of thousands to get their cars modified and never had it do e right and they keep it quiet and don't speak.

........the problem as I see it is that with exception of about 2 or 3 companies, we don't really have tuners. Incidentally Weistec is one if the better ones. But what happens in the Mercedes Benz world is that we have vendors who sell a few trinklets here and there and greatly exaggerate their abilities. Combine that with an expensive German car and and an owner who e levers results, and you get disasters. This is the problem. There constantly vendors coming on the forums hawking one unproven product or the other. There have been a million twin turbo projects that never went to completion. Behind each of those is an owner who got the short end of the stick and you never hear them complain. This is the real story of the Mercedes Benz tuner scene, not what you posted


........the more valid point is to the tuners and shops. Mercedes Benz cars are not ones where you can wing it because you did this before on a mustang. Custom fabrication is not the problem. Tuning is. Don't wing it. If you don't already know what you are doing, please close shop. Owners are now going to be more vocal. That is a good thing.

Ted

e55amgrocket

Back to bashing I see. You went silent on that twin turbo build thread for some reason. I do agree there's a lot to be desired as far as tuning goes but why all the bashing? ANYTIME you mod a car there's a risk right? The problem is you expect to have a extremely modde car but at the same time it needs to drive exactly as stock and behave the same way. Sorry that's not going to happen. OEM's spend hundreds of millions to do that. Maybe you've just had bad luck with your choices it happens to all of us. No need to continue trash talking all the tuners and people trying to make parts for these cars. No offense but the problem I see with you is you think writing a check buys anything you want. Doesn't always work like that. Your the kind of guy I would hustle every weekend because you thought your money bought you better stuff......

msheredy

Ted you can spin it anyway you want but what layzie12g said is right. Remember the saying, "If it's too good to be true..." Or how about "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"

People need to take responsibility for their actions (getting sick of saying this in general).

layzie12g

I do not work on Fords. I work on Mitsubishi Evos and Diamond Stars. I have done a few pulleys and the normal maintenance work with the 55K. The community I come from is completely different. Also a lot of information is shared on a closed forum that is not open to any yahoo with an Eclipse which weeds out a lot of internet non sense.

We have people doing compound turbos, people doing variable valve timing conversions on cars that came with fixed cam positions, and multiple fuel rail setups. The majority of the owners tune their own vehicles using AEM EMS or Ecm Link. These are a group of highly skilled individuals that do not have the income to play with German cars. I had a feeling you were implying I was some idiot who has put an exhaust on a mustang which is offensive.

If you felt I was bashing the Mercedes community as a whole you are horribly mistaken. I see what these guys do with their cars and the skills they have. Do not get me wrong. If the tuning software was more accessible it would increase the amount of information as a whole tuning wise. The vast majority of people on this forum do not have the skill or the knowledge to tune their own car even if the software was available.

Tuning with these cars seems to be secretive. These companies don't want everyone to find out how to do it because they will lose their business. Just like I don't give people all my tips and tricks when it comes to tuning Ecm Link in an Eclipse. The tuning software for the cars I work on is some what straight forward. People like to think they get the jist of it, but when they get behind the computer of their own car they begin to get nervous. Most of the time they decide to let a professional take it from there.

I would be very interested in seeing exactly what the program looks like that is used with these cars. I know nothing about it.