W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63

TWIN TURBO E55

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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 12:07 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Sir-Boost-a-Lot
Why do you say the Porsche heads will "flow better up top" then the MB heads? What do you mean by "up top"?
I'm assuming @ higher RPM.



Damn, I was hoping to read about HP levels. I've been gettin the itch to mod my E.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 08:21 AM
  #102  
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ide be worried about losing the ability of the stock failsafe of disengagement of pulley during hi temps. I wonder what kinda heat it will make packing 2 turboes in there.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 09:51 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by forcefed4door
ide be worried about losing the ability of the stock failsafe of disengagement of pulley during hi temps. I wonder what kinda heat it will make packing 2 turboes in there.

I'm guessing here but I think they will put the turbos where the primary cats are now so heat shouldn't be a big issue.
Can't wait for the actual pics, I got a huge itch to do it myself
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 10:05 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Sir-Boost-a-Lot
But consider that the Porsche has a much more acceptable range of noise and vibration that's acceptable because it is a sports car. So the cam timing is likely more tame and the exhaust/ intake tract is likely more restrictive on the Benz.
The 928S4 engine is a very quiet and extremely smooth engine. It's also classified as GT. Comparing it to modern cars, yes, it's a sports car with a Mercedes CL vibe. The only engine I've expereince that was smoother than the 928S4 was the MB bi-turbo V12. The cam timing is tame but the cars are known to make around 290 RWHP stock and I've seen some modified ones close to 600 RWHP without forced induction. Remove the supercharger from the 55K and you will be lucky to make more than 240 RWHP.

The 55K engine is going to be more reliable simply by the fact it uses a timing chain versus a belt. Also, the 55K has greater displacement so the low end torque will be greater and there were many more built so parts will be more readily available. Not to mention, you can comfortably carry 4 in the MB while the Porsche is only comfortable for the driver and passenger.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 10:09 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by BlownV8
The 928S4 engine is a very quiet and extremely smooth engine. It's also classified as GT. Comparing it to modern cars, yes, it's a sports car with a Mercedes CL vibe. The only engine I've expereince that was smoother than the 928S4 was the MB bi-turbo V12. The cam timing is tame but the cars are known to make around 290 RWHP stock and I've seen some modified ones close to 600 RWHP without forced induction. Remove the supercharger from the 55K and you will be lucky to make more than 240 RWHP.

The 55K engine is going to be more reliable simply by the fact it uses a timing chain versus a belt. Also, the 55K has greater displacement so the low end torque will be greater and there were many more built so parts will be more readily available. Not to mention, you can comfortably carry 4 in the MB while the Porsche is only comfortable for the driver and passenger.
That's not fair, the 55K has ultra low compression due to the fact it's FI stock. Compare it to a N/A M113 that can put down 300whp through an auto.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 11:02 PM
  #106  
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I apologize I was still talking just about the heads' airflow itself. Id be surprised if those 25 year old Porsche heads flowed even the same, let alone more than the 3v mb heads. I'm only speculating though, I know nothing about P car heads at all. I'd make that guess just on the age, and that they make similar power NA even though the P car would have more of a free reign in regards to NVH than want would be acceptable in a Mercedes so if the heads flowed the same, I'd expect the Mb to make less power.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 11:06 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by GT-ER
That's not fair, the 55K has ultra low compression due to the fact it's FI stock. Compare it to a N/A M113 that can put down 300whp through an auto.
N/A M113's make more than that. I've broken the tires loose @ 70 easily. 300whp wont do that.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 11:15 PM
  #108  
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Breaks tires loose at 70 mph easily

Last edited by AKnight55; Apr 20, 2013 at 12:13 AM.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 11:39 PM
  #109  
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 11:44 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by AKnight55
Broken tires loose at 70 mph easily
Laugh all you want, it happens all the time.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 12:46 AM
  #111  
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Maybe driving on a frozen lake covered in Slick 50 with bald tires?
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 01:18 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Sir-Boost-a-Lot
Maybe driving on a frozen lake covered in Slick 50 with bald tires?
Hey, he never said how he did it Maybe he has those new teflon coated tires.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 08:51 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by BlackOmega
N/A M113's make more than that. I've broken the tires loose @ 70 easily. 300whp wont do that.
LOL sure you do....My Pinto breaks the tires loose at 115 mph too
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 09:25 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Sir-Boost-a-Lot
I apologize I was still talking just about the heads' airflow itself. Id be surprised if those 25 year old Porsche heads flowed even the same, let alone more than the 3v mb heads. I'm only speculating though, I know nothing about P car heads at all. I'd make that guess just on the age, and that they make similar power NA even though the P car would have more of a free reign in regards to NVH than want would be acceptable in a Mercedes so if the heads flowed the same, I'd expect the Mb to make less power.
I did some searching on the 928 heads and our heads are very close in CFM. It doesn't say how they actually tested them to come up with the flow number but all out ported 928 heads flow 329cfm @ .500 intake and 260cfm @ .500 exhaust. No idea what lift the have stock either. We are just over .400 lift stock on the 55k's.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 09:33 AM
  #115  
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Yeah these cars have the most puss cams ever. 305 Chevy v8s from the 80s that made 180hp had more cam timing and lift than a 55K.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 11:15 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by BlackOmega
N/A M113's make more than that. I've broken the tires loose @ 70 easily. 300whp wont do that.
Perhaps you had your spare tire in the rear? Trust me, they put down about 300whp ( sometimes even less ). I had over 500whp/550wtrq and I can't say my car easily broke the tires loose at 70mph, it has happened but it wasn't constantly.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 12:39 PM
  #117  
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I was making over 600 and could spin street tires from 50-70 when it would shock the tires and those were the junky Goodyear f1's. M/T's on stock rims wouldn't spin and the 16" Hoosiers would spin a tiny bit from a 20-30 roll but you could stay in it and they would hook right up.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 01:34 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by BlackOmega
N/A M113's make more than that. I've broken the tires loose @ 70 easily. 300whp wont do that.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 01:35 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by BlackOmega
I'm assuming @ higher RPM.



Damn, I was hoping to read about HP levels. I've been gettin the itch to mod my E.
You should sell it and get a real E!
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 02:58 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by forcefed4door
ide be worried about losing the ability of the stock failsafe of disengagement of pulley during hi temps. I wonder what kinda heat it will make packing 2 turboes in there.
It'd be trick to wire that "failsafe" into a wastegate controller. Hit high temps and the failsafe would open the wastegates to bypass the turbine.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 03:18 PM
  #121  
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You'ld just have a giant A2A in the event of twin turbos, so IAT problems and failsafes are not really a concern.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 03:28 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by BlackOmega
N/A M113's make more than that. I've broken the tires loose @ 70 easily. 300whp wont do that.
you're right 300whp won't do that. My 211 doesn't and my 210 certainly doesn't.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 05:48 PM
  #123  
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Wait till you blow a boost pipe coupler the first time... ha
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 05:51 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by e55amgrocket
out ported 928 heads flow 329cfm @ .500 intake and 260cfm @ .500 exhaust. No idea what lift the have stock either. We are just over .400 lift stock on the 55k's.
The stock S4 cams are very mild. Intake lift/duration is .354" / 200 deg exhaust lift/duration is .313" / 190 deg. Bigger cams really wake the car up.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 06:02 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by E55 Prototype
Wait till you blow a boost pipe coupler the first time... ha
I've blown my charge pipe boot of at 70psi and it sounds like a bomb going off.
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