another twin turbo e55 amg is born at BIP
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 9
From: NJ/Greece
2006 CLS55 & 2002 SL55 (R129) Silver Arrow
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 17
From: West
E55 AMG
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 2
From: Atlanta, GA
E55 AMG on Ethanol-Meth; 600rwhp BMW M5
The 44mm waste gates were put in and the car is doing the exact same thing. Back pressure measured at 130psi.
This was on 15lbs of boost. Looks like we have come to the end of the road.
This was on 15lbs of boost. Looks like we have come to the end of the road.
Last edited by BI-Performance; Aug 5, 2014 at 05:35 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
From: Miami,FL.
2017 Charger Hellcat
Damnit man,sorry to hear things didn't work out for you and the BIP crew!! You definitely gave it a hell of a shot!!
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
2004 E55
I wonder if this same issue happened to the TTCLS which was why he ended up selling the thing no too long ago.
Craig: For the sake of science, would you ever consider installing the kit onto a volunteers stock e55 just to see if it was your particular car's issue that's causing this to happen? I'd happily chip in some coin on the install just to see this thing come to fruition.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 2
From: Atlanta, GA
E55 AMG on Ethanol-Meth; 600rwhp BMW M5
.82 I believe Steve! Some more data from today is that the egts in the down pipe was 1000* and egts in the actual exhaust manifold was *600.
when we had these turbos off the car we took every possible measurement and wrote down every number we could find on the turbo itself. we then called into Garrett and a couple other well known turbo companies. well, they came back with the same result, they said we had 3071 turbos.
We called IPS and spoke to the owner, Stas. Stas said we need to speak to his tuner, so now we are waiting for that call to take place with Jason, owner of BIP.
Another thing that is very interesting is that 320 dreamer has 3076 turbos on his Porsche, and the housing measures 2.5", well the turbos in this kit only measure 2.25".
Having these size turbos on a 5.4 V8 is not going to work. There is so much money invested in proofing this kit, IPS needs to step up to get this resolved once and for all. We have gone through the whole kit, addressed issues we thought could be the problem areas, and nothing, no improvement. Sure you can add a bigger down pipe to a 3071 and market it as a 3076, but this is not a Chevy. That may work on camaros and corvettes, but at this point it is clear this does not work on a m113k motor.
when we had these turbos off the car we took every possible measurement and wrote down every number we could find on the turbo itself. we then called into Garrett and a couple other well known turbo companies. well, they came back with the same result, they said we had 3071 turbos.
We called IPS and spoke to the owner, Stas. Stas said we need to speak to his tuner, so now we are waiting for that call to take place with Jason, owner of BIP.
Another thing that is very interesting is that 320 dreamer has 3076 turbos on his Porsche, and the housing measures 2.5", well the turbos in this kit only measure 2.25".
Having these size turbos on a 5.4 V8 is not going to work. There is so much money invested in proofing this kit, IPS needs to step up to get this resolved once and for all. We have gone through the whole kit, addressed issues we thought could be the problem areas, and nothing, no improvement. Sure you can add a bigger down pipe to a 3071 and market it as a 3076, but this is not a Chevy. That may work on camaros and corvettes, but at this point it is clear this does not work on a m113k motor.
Last edited by BI-Performance; Aug 6, 2014 at 08:18 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,921
Likes: 9
From: Streets of SoFlo
you to Hate
yes, a .82... some more data from today is that the egts in the down pipe was 1000* and egts in the actual exhaust manifold was *600.
when we had these turbos off the car we took every possible measurement and wrote down every number we could find on the turbo itself. we then called into Garrett and a couple other well known turbo companies. well, they came back with the same result, they said we had 3071 turbos.
We called IPS and spoke to the owner, Stas. Stas said we need to speak to his tuner, so now we are waiting for that call to take place with Jason, owner of BIP.
Another thing that is very interesting is that 320 dreamer has 3076 turbos on his Porsche, and the housing measures 2.5", well the turbos in this kit only measure 2.25".
Having these size turbos on a 5.4 V8 is not going to work. There is so much money invested in proofing this kit, IPS needs to step up to get this resolved once and for all. We have gone through the whole kit, addressed issues we thought could be the problem areas, and nothing, no improvement. Sure you can add a bigger down pipe to a 3071 and market it as a 3076, but this is not a Chevy. That may work on camaros and corvettes, but at this point it is clear this does not work on a m113k motor.
when we had these turbos off the car we took every possible measurement and wrote down every number we could find on the turbo itself. we then called into Garrett and a couple other well known turbo companies. well, they came back with the same result, they said we had 3071 turbos.
We called IPS and spoke to the owner, Stas. Stas said we need to speak to his tuner, so now we are waiting for that call to take place with Jason, owner of BIP.
Another thing that is very interesting is that 320 dreamer has 3076 turbos on his Porsche, and the housing measures 2.5", well the turbos in this kit only measure 2.25".
Having these size turbos on a 5.4 V8 is not going to work. There is so much money invested in proofing this kit, IPS needs to step up to get this resolved once and for all. We have gone through the whole kit, addressed issues we thought could be the problem areas, and nothing, no improvement. Sure you can add a bigger down pipe to a 3071 and market it as a 3076, but this is not a Chevy. That may work on camaros and corvettes, but at this point it is clear this does not work on a m113k motor.
. I'll call Jason tomorrow.
Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 108
Likes: 2
C63 AMG, E55 AMG
Sorry to hear Craig, what a PITA you have been through chasing your tail, throwing money around and it ended up being the vendors fault. At least you know you have done all you can, let's hope this gets sorted ASAP.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,152
Likes: 0
From: murfreesboro,tn
2003 porsche 996 turbo
tial has been known to build many variations of the garrett turbo. its quite possible the previous owner ordered the turbos in this configuration
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,659
Likes: 67
From: Atlanta
2006 E55 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,659
Likes: 67
From: Atlanta
2006 E55 AMG
craig i have 3071 tials on my car. even if you have these turbos they are still good for 800+ rwhp on a bad day. theres soothing else going on
tial has been known to build many variations of the garrett turbo. its quite possible the previous owner ordered the turbos in this configuration
tial has been known to build many variations of the garrett turbo. its quite possible the previous owner ordered the turbos in this configuration
GT3071 are rated 300-400HP at the crank each, and are seeing 620rwhp and thats when it takes a plummet. These turbos are maxed out, plain and simple and are too small. Sky high EGTS, sky high back pressure and topped out HP.
The turbos are been pulled off and I am taking them to Diesel Performance to have them spec'd out and identified once and for all. We spoke to Moto Visity yesterday too about them, and they said that turbo is too small for the m113k.
Last edited by chawkins2001; Aug 6, 2014 at 10:22 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,489
Likes: 96
haters crazy
You're welcome
No problem
The TTCLS ran the 1/4 mile. It was not having these issues
Agreed.
Garth had NOTHING to do with building the TT CLS55. You're talking to the wrong guy. It was Powerhaus.
No problem
craig i have 3071 tials on my car. even if you have these turbos they are still good for 800+ rwhp on a bad day. theres soothing else going on
tial has been known to build many variations of the garrett turbo. its quite possible the previous owner ordered the turbos in this configuration
tial has been known to build many variations of the garrett turbo. its quite possible the previous owner ordered the turbos in this configuration
Garth had NOTHING to do with building the TT CLS55. You're talking to the wrong guy. It was Powerhaus.
Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Sterling VA
05 E55 AMG, 2011 Range Rover Sport SC, 2004 BMW 745Li
Thanks for clearing that up, regardless, when you and BIP swapped measurement sizing of the turbo's, this turbo measured 1/4" smaller, right?
GT3071 are rated 300-400HP at the crank each, and are seeing 620rwhp and thats when it takes a plummet. These turbos are maxed out, plain and simple and are too small. Sky high EGTS, sky high back pressure and topped out HP.
The turbos are been pulled off and I am taking them to Diesel Performance to have them spec'd out and identified once and for all. We spoke to Moto Visity yesterday too about them, and they said that turbo is too small for the m113k.
GT3071 are rated 300-400HP at the crank each, and are seeing 620rwhp and thats when it takes a plummet. These turbos are maxed out, plain and simple and are too small. Sky high EGTS, sky high back pressure and topped out HP.
The turbos are been pulled off and I am taking them to Diesel Performance to have them spec'd out and identified once and for all. We spoke to Moto Visity yesterday too about them, and they said that turbo is too small for the m113k.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 472
Likes: 5
From: Gainesville, FL: In a garage or in a bar, or a garage with a bar in it.
2005 E55, 2011 Honda Push Mower (21 inch deck bishes)
KEEP UP THE FIGHT MAN.
This is what it takes to have a very unique setup. I ditched my old Supercharged setup in the Lightning and went turbo and it took me 2 years to see the fruits of all of my trial and error. I changed turbos, changed wastegates, and went through all the hell you did man, but I'm telling you, the day you witness that first REAL dyno pull, you'll have a ****-eating grin that can be seen from outer space brother. Hang in there!
This is what it takes to have a very unique setup. I ditched my old Supercharged setup in the Lightning and went turbo and it took me 2 years to see the fruits of all of my trial and error. I changed turbos, changed wastegates, and went through all the hell you did man, but I'm telling you, the day you witness that first REAL dyno pull, you'll have a ****-eating grin that can be seen from outer space brother. Hang in there!
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 2
From: Atlanta, GA
E55 AMG on Ethanol-Meth; 600rwhp BMW M5
Just spoke to tial, we are sending them all our measurements and numbers on the turbos so they can identify these once and for all.
They will then tell us what should be on the car.
Yes, that was a typo earlier Whipplem, lol. I meant to type we saw between 13-15 ib's of back pressure. Tial said we should be in the 6-7ib range.
They will then tell us what should be on the car.
Yes, that was a typo earlier Whipplem, lol. I meant to type we saw between 13-15 ib's of back pressure. Tial said we should be in the 6-7ib range.
Last edited by BI-Performance; Aug 6, 2014 at 01:00 PM.
Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 247
Likes: 23
Benz
Heard this build was going on, and congrats on taking it on! After reading through the post's, I'd like to see if I could help at all. So I take it the back pressure was measured between the turbo and the manifold correct, and your saying the back pressure was around 15 lbs under boost of approx 15lbs? I wouldn't consider that your issue in the least honestly, running nearly 1:1 ratio in relation to boost and preturbine back pressure is pretty darn good. Many factory cars run ratios of 1:5 and many higher to help spool the turbos, while not Ideal it still works. Generally you shouldn't ever have breakup issues until you get over a 1.5 on the exhaust side and even then there are plenty of setups running 1:2 without issues. With that being said your turbos aren't the restriction or "to small" at this point of where your issue is occurring in my opinion. Now I'm not saying that once you get everything sorted out and running to wot that the turbos are of sufficient sizing, but take the 275 mercedes engine the turbos are tiny on those cars and make lots of power and torque for example. They have tiny inlets through there even smaller manifolds. I would think your getting break up based around a turbulence issue preturbine.
Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Sterling VA
05 E55 AMG, 2011 Range Rover Sport SC, 2004 BMW 745Li
Heard this build was going on, and congrats on taking it on! After reading through the post's, I'd like to see if I could help at all. So I take it the back pressure was measured between the turbo and the manifold correct, and your saying the back pressure was around 15 lbs under boost of approx 15lbs? I wouldn't consider that your issue in the least honestly, running nearly 1:1 ratio in relation to boost and preturbine back pressure is pretty darn good. Many factory cars run ratios of 1:5 and many higher to help spool the turbos, while not Ideal it still works. Generally you shouldn't ever have breakup issues until you get over a 1.5 on the exhaust side and even then there are plenty of setups running 1:2 without issues. With that being said your turbos aren't the restriction or "to small" at this point of where your issue is occurring in my opinion. Now I'm not saying that once you get everything sorted out and running to wot that the turbos are of sufficient sizing, but take the 275 mercedes engine the turbos are tiny on those cars and make lots of power and torque for example. They have tiny inlets through there even smaller manifolds. I would think your getting break up based around a turbulence issue preturbine.
Maybe just me IDK. Usually its someone posting on behalf of someone else. But hey maybe I am wrong.
It was mentioned earlier about possible turbulence pre-turbine. As the intake manifold wasn't designed for forced induction. However someone mentioned another twin turbo build that used the intake manifold and they said that they are having absolutely zero problems.
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 659
Likes: 25
From: SE MI
2005 Mercedes E55 AMG
Its a little strange to just join a forum to post in a certain thread
Maybe just me IDK. Usually its someone posting on behalf of someone else. But hey maybe I am wrong.
It was mentioned earlier about possible turbulence pre-turbine. As the intake manifold wasn't designed for forced induction. However someone mentioned another twin turbo build that used the intake manifold and they said that they are having absolutely zero problems.
Maybe just me IDK. Usually its someone posting on behalf of someone else. But hey maybe I am wrong.
It was mentioned earlier about possible turbulence pre-turbine. As the intake manifold wasn't designed for forced induction. However someone mentioned another twin turbo build that used the intake manifold and they said that they are having absolutely zero problems.
Craig, you're on stock manifolds? How did I miss this?! It's turbulence... the more the turbos flow, the worse the symptoms are. With it being an OEM blower car Mercedes did not care how air exited the manifolds, only that they were sufficient for the stock power output. Has anyone completed a rear mount turbo setup? If so, I'm willing to bet they don't have this issue... the air evens out by then.
