Strange pinging noise... Carbon build up?!?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 408
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From: AZ
C32, C55, 08 E63
Strange pinging noise... Carbon build up?!?
So I've been noticing the past 2 months that there is a pinging noise, I noticed it first when I was on a trip up in northern AZ which is at a higher elevation(approx: 6,000 ft). At first I thought I got a bad batch of gas, even though I am very careful with where I fill up, only use chevron/she'll/QT gas. I've gone through several tanks and the noise still is there. It's much more prevalent at higher altitudes but it's still present and getting more noticeable even when I'm in Phoenix(1,000ft). I notice it mostly when I'm off the gas and then get on it very slightly. It's now even making the noise under hard acceleration though.
I spoke to the service wrighter at the dealership and he said it sounds like it's carbon build up, possibly from the previous owner driving it like a grandma(bought the car at 50k, now at 55k) or bad gas used by the previous owner. He said they have a carbon service they do there or to use sea foam at home, which I don't feel comfortable doing to a $75k motor and I don't want to pay for their service.
Has anybody experienced this? Could it be something else besides carbon build up? The noise sounds terrible and is almost embarrassing to be driving around in a $90k car that sounds like a 1950 pickup.
I do have a full CPO warranty on the car so I may try to get them to cover the carbon service if everybody agrees that's the most likely culprit.
I spoke to the service wrighter at the dealership and he said it sounds like it's carbon build up, possibly from the previous owner driving it like a grandma(bought the car at 50k, now at 55k) or bad gas used by the previous owner. He said they have a carbon service they do there or to use sea foam at home, which I don't feel comfortable doing to a $75k motor and I don't want to pay for their service.
Has anybody experienced this? Could it be something else besides carbon build up? The noise sounds terrible and is almost embarrassing to be driving around in a $90k car that sounds like a 1950 pickup.
I do have a full CPO warranty on the car so I may try to get them to cover the carbon service if everybody agrees that's the most likely culprit.
Last edited by Enigma94; Aug 22, 2014 at 02:59 PM.
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From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
Are you datalogging ? What modifications do you have on the car ?
The first thing to do is determine if the car is really "pinging" vs another noise.
If you don't have the ability to datalog, then I would start the diagnosis by adding some unleaded race gas (VP or Sunoco) + Chevron Techron injector cleaner .
After this tank is done, fill up with normal high octane fuel and see if you are OK.
The first thing to do is determine if the car is really "pinging" vs another noise.
If you don't have the ability to datalog, then I would start the diagnosis by adding some unleaded race gas (VP or Sunoco) + Chevron Techron injector cleaner .
After this tank is done, fill up with normal high octane fuel and see if you are OK.
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Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Folsom, CA
2005 E55 AMG
you could find a way to spritz some water into the intake (no hose) just use a plastic bottle sprayer and mist the water into the intake - it will break up the carbon deposits pretty quickly...
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 408
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From: AZ
C32, C55, 08 E63
The car is a stock 08 E63, so no way to datalog. It sounds like a heat shield for a header is loose and just rattling, Very high pitched. I also have some lifter noise as well, not sure if that would be related or not. I'll throw some 110 in it with some techron additive and see if that clears it out.
Any other kind of fuel additives that I could try out, or some kind of "top engine cleaner" that won't do damage to the engine? Never been a big seafoam fan...
Any other kind of fuel additives that I could try out, or some kind of "top engine cleaner" that won't do damage to the engine? Never been a big seafoam fan...
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Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
The car is a stock 08 E63, so no way to datalog. It sounds like a heat shield for a header is loose and just rattling, Very high pitched. I also have some lifter noise as well, not sure if that would be related or not. I'll throw some 110 in it with some techron additive and see if that clears it out.
Any other kind of fuel additives that I could try out, or some kind of "top engine cleaner" that won't do damage to the engine? Never been a big seafoam fan...
Any other kind of fuel additives that I could try out, or some kind of "top engine cleaner" that won't do damage to the engine? Never been a big seafoam fan...
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Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Hard to believe the engine is pinging, as the knock sensor would pull timing long before you heard it.
Most likely a heat shield rattling. Try to hit the exhaust pipes with a rubber hammer or your hand to see if you hear anything loose.
Forget the engine pinging.
Most likely a heat shield rattling. Try to hit the exhaust pipes with a rubber hammer or your hand to see if you hear anything loose.
Forget the engine pinging.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 408
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From: AZ
C32, C55, 08 E63
That was my initial thought but the car was looked over at the dealer and they said nothing was loose, and the sound does drastically change when the car sees a change in elevation so that's why I think it's something internal.
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clk320
Strange pinging noise... Carbon build up?!?
Hi Enigma94
I am new to this forum, but I guess I may be able to help you.
I used to run old clunkers and I found that the best way to do this was to use a stethoscope - if one is not available, use a length of dowel or a long bladed screwdriver.
Obviously, the first thing to do is try to isolate the noise source.
Firstly, try to determine from what area the noise is coming from - engine, gearbox, rear axle, etc.
Take off any covers, then have an assistant (my manservant usually obliges); rev the engine until the noise occurs. If you can determine the area from which it originates, put the stethoscope, dowel, etc. on that area whilst putting the other end next to your ear - e.g. if it is in the engine, place the stethoscope, etc. next to cylinder 1; if no unusual noise, place it on cylinder 2, and so on.
If there are no unusual noises, proceed to the gearbox, then the rear axle and so on.
Usually, you will hear an unusual noise in some area or other. If not, check out the body panels, using the same technique. Normally, the noise can be isolated and appropriate repairs undertaken.
This approach has served me well in the past.
Good luck in your quest.
Austinat
I am new to this forum, but I guess I may be able to help you.
I used to run old clunkers and I found that the best way to do this was to use a stethoscope - if one is not available, use a length of dowel or a long bladed screwdriver.
Obviously, the first thing to do is try to isolate the noise source.
Firstly, try to determine from what area the noise is coming from - engine, gearbox, rear axle, etc.
Take off any covers, then have an assistant (my manservant usually obliges); rev the engine until the noise occurs. If you can determine the area from which it originates, put the stethoscope, dowel, etc. on that area whilst putting the other end next to your ear - e.g. if it is in the engine, place the stethoscope, etc. next to cylinder 1; if no unusual noise, place it on cylinder 2, and so on.
If there are no unusual noises, proceed to the gearbox, then the rear axle and so on.
Usually, you will hear an unusual noise in some area or other. If not, check out the body panels, using the same technique. Normally, the noise can be isolated and appropriate repairs undertaken.
This approach has served me well in the past.
Good luck in your quest.
Austinat
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Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
My son complained about a pinging noise in his CTS Cadillac, turned out to be the heat shield on one of the cats.
At for you altitude difference, when you are in higher altitudes you basically need more throttle to maintain the same speed, so in effect the noise could be louder. Just saying.
Just because the dealer could not find the reason for the noise they blow smoke up your b**t and recommend sea foam.
Toadster has the right idea to remove carbon, used to do this on my 70 340 Dodge Challenger, remove the air filter and spray water into the carb and the rev the motor, lots of black specks blow out the tailpipes. then would go out looking for 427 Corvettes to intimidate.
At for you altitude difference, when you are in higher altitudes you basically need more throttle to maintain the same speed, so in effect the noise could be louder. Just saying.
Just because the dealer could not find the reason for the noise they blow smoke up your b**t and recommend sea foam.
Toadster has the right idea to remove carbon, used to do this on my 70 340 Dodge Challenger, remove the air filter and spray water into the carb and the rev the motor, lots of black specks blow out the tailpipes. then would go out looking for 427 Corvettes to intimidate.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 408
Likes: 1
From: AZ
C32, C55, 08 E63
My son complained about a pinging noise in his CTS Cadillac, turned out to be the heat shield on one of the cats.
At for you altitude difference, when you are in higher altitudes you basically need more throttle to maintain the same speed, so in effect the noise could be louder. Just saying.
Just because the dealer could not find the reason for the noise they blow smoke up your b**t and recommend sea foam.
Toadster has the right idea to remove carbon, used to do this on my 70 340 Dodge Challenger, remove the air filter and spray water into the carb and the rev the motor, lots of black specks blow out the tailpipes. then would go out looking for 427 Corvettes to intimidate.
At for you altitude difference, when you are in higher altitudes you basically need more throttle to maintain the same speed, so in effect the noise could be louder. Just saying.
Just because the dealer could not find the reason for the noise they blow smoke up your b**t and recommend sea foam.
Toadster has the right idea to remove carbon, used to do this on my 70 340 Dodge Challenger, remove the air filter and spray water into the carb and the rev the motor, lots of black specks blow out the tailpipes. then would go out looking for 427 Corvettes to intimidate.
Really?!?! Seems like you wouldn't want to even spray a light mist of water into the intake. I'll definitely give it a try though because I'm pretty confident it is indeed carbon build up, and that the car doesn't like QT gas. I filled up before heading up north Friday and used some techron additive, and used chevron gas. The noise seems to has reduced maybe by 50%. I'm going to try out some race gas with some more techron along with the water mist and see what I come up with. Thanks guys!
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 437
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From: Central PA
'05 E55
If it's indeed carbon build-up, enough to be hearing pinging, you're detonating and causing excessive EGT which is very much not good.
Have you checked plugs and fuel filter?
Sounds like time to find a new dealer.
Have you checked plugs and fuel filter?
Sounds like time to find a new dealer.
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Use a atomiser bottle with the water in it. Water droplets expand 15000 times when turned into steam by heat. Warm engine, increase RPMs to about 1700-2000 rpm then spray away.
Still do not think it is carbon though, does the car go through like gallons of oil? Or quarts?
Carbon is a deposit from burnt oil or poor grade fuel. When in operation the carbon deposits will heat up and start to glow which causes the fuel in the cylinder to burn at the wrong time, thus the noise. Modern engines have knock sensors which retard the timing long before you hear it. Pull a few sparkplugs and look for your carbon, while you are there make sure they are the right plugs for the car in the proper heat range. NGK iridium work well.
Still do not think it is carbon though, does the car go through like gallons of oil? Or quarts?
Carbon is a deposit from burnt oil or poor grade fuel. When in operation the carbon deposits will heat up and start to glow which causes the fuel in the cylinder to burn at the wrong time, thus the noise. Modern engines have knock sensors which retard the timing long before you hear it. Pull a few sparkplugs and look for your carbon, while you are there make sure they are the right plugs for the car in the proper heat range. NGK iridium work well.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 408
Likes: 1
From: AZ
C32, C55, 08 E63
Use a atomiser bottle with the water in it. Water droplets expand 15000 times when turned into steam by heat. Warm engine, increase RPMs to about 1700-2000 rpm then spray away.
Still do not think it is carbon though, does the car go through like gallons of oil? Or quarts?
Carbon is a deposit from burnt oil or poor grade fuel. When in operation the carbon deposits will heat up and start to glow which causes the fuel in the cylinder to burn at the wrong time, thus the noise. Modern engines have knock sensors which retard the timing long before you hear it. Pull a few sparkplugs and look for your carbon, while you are there make sure they are the right plugs for the car in the proper heat range. NGK iridium work well.
Still do not think it is carbon though, does the car go through like gallons of oil? Or quarts?
Carbon is a deposit from burnt oil or poor grade fuel. When in operation the carbon deposits will heat up and start to glow which causes the fuel in the cylinder to burn at the wrong time, thus the noise. Modern engines have knock sensors which retard the timing long before you hear it. Pull a few sparkplugs and look for your carbon, while you are there make sure they are the right plugs for the car in the proper heat range. NGK iridium work well.
I'm actually on my way to the dealer to get my shifter switched out because they broke my keyless go button when they had it last, so I'll listen on the drive and talk with them further about it if it's still there and report back.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 594
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05 E55, 06 Audi S4
I have not done a single thing to the car since I purchased it, maintenance or otherwise. I'm extremely busy which is one of the reasons why I bought the car because it was a CPO vehicle and I extended the warranty for this reason as well. I am very mechanically inclined so I wouldn't have a problem pulling plugs and all of that but isn't that what the warranty is for? I may just have to switch dealerships.... This one has created more problems than it's fixed.
I've only owned the car for 6k miles so I can't really attest to it burning a lot of oil, if any at all. I will say I'm coming up on 9k miles on the current oil and it still looks EXTREMELY clean. I'm not sure if it's just enough knock to hear it but not enough for it to throw a code or not... It seems to have gotten better after switching to chevron gas with the techron additive but I haven't had a real chance to listen closely enough to say it's definitely gone.
I'm actually on my way to the dealer to get my shifter switched out because they broke my keyless go button when they had it last, so I'll listen on the drive and talk with them further about it if it's still there and report back.
I've only owned the car for 6k miles so I can't really attest to it burning a lot of oil, if any at all. I will say I'm coming up on 9k miles on the current oil and it still looks EXTREMELY clean. I'm not sure if it's just enough knock to hear it but not enough for it to throw a code or not... It seems to have gotten better after switching to chevron gas with the techron additive but I haven't had a real chance to listen closely enough to say it's definitely gone.
I'm actually on my way to the dealer to get my shifter switched out because they broke my keyless go button when they had it last, so I'll listen on the drive and talk with them further about it if it's still there and report back.
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From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
Sorry but I actually do believe you are hearing pinging and my recommendation is still the same...If you hear "the noise" under light throttle, in altitude, you could be in a very easy part of the fuel map to see pre-ignition, especially if you have carbon build-up. Just use race gas and techron and if the noise goes away, you are in fact hearing pre-ignition.
