Kill story E63 Biturbo
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,799
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
Mostly referring to the first pages. 
I´m keeping the beast for a long time. Thought about getting in something else like a E63 AMG S but the price difference is not worth it. E55 is payed off with low depreciation and still a beast that can beat 99,9% of the cars on the road. All for a fairly low running cost.
I´m keeping the beast for a long time. Thought about getting in something else like a E63 AMG S but the price difference is not worth it. E55 is payed off with low depreciation and still a beast that can beat 99,9% of the cars on the road. All for a fairly low running cost.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,681
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From: San Diego
E55
M113K is pretty much maxed out with bolt ons etc. The M157 is maxed out also pretty early. Because, I'm told you cant fit bigger turbos in that tight space and the amount of items that need to be changed is considerable. Only thing left really is CNC ported heads and some porting. Cams I think will cost too much and offer too little of gains for the money. Maybe bigger throttle body. I cant see it going much further then that for the foreseeable future.
Lets see what happens with the new I dunno what it's called 4.0L Biturbo can do. It looks very promising. Not sure how big of turbos you can fit into the galley either.
Lets see what happens with the new I dunno what it's called 4.0L Biturbo can do. It looks very promising. Not sure how big of turbos you can fit into the galley either.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
M113K is pretty much maxed out with bolt ons etc. The M157 is maxed out also pretty early. Because, I'm told you cant fit bigger turbos in that tight space and the amount of items that need to be changed is considerable. Only thing left really is CNC ported heads and some porting. Cams I think will cost too much and offer too little of gains for the money. Maybe bigger throttle body. I cant see it going much further then that for the foreseeable future.
.
.
they can still put bigger turbo wheels in the same turbo housing
there is still a lot of tuning development remaining for the M157, especially in the early rpm torque limitations MB built into the ecu/tcu... once that is cracked you will see all those 1.7x 0-60ft times go to 1.4x , as currently no matter how much HP you have, the M157 still hesitates at initial takeoff from like 0-15mph, then it turns into a rocket
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,681
Likes: 39
From: San Diego
E55
1115 AWHP from a stock internal M157? Clearly it has a full built engine to handle that power. So, thats not comparing apples to apples. But very impressive and I can't wait to see how fast they run.
I'm talking about stock with bolt ons. Maxed out on what the majority of people will ever do. Or what is readily available on the shelf.
Fully built one off race engines with race gas and huge turbos is not what I meant. In the aftermarket world you can make 1000WHP from less then 2.0L 4 cyl.
Weistec and other companies putting larger internals into the stock turbo exhaust manifolds already. Not getting anywhere near 1000AWHP.
I'm talking about stock with bolt ons. Maxed out on what the majority of people will ever do. Or what is readily available on the shelf.
Fully built one off race engines with race gas and huge turbos is not what I meant. In the aftermarket world you can make 1000WHP from less then 2.0L 4 cyl.
Weistec and other companies putting larger internals into the stock turbo exhaust manifolds already. Not getting anywhere near 1000AWHP.
Last edited by Max.H; Jan 8, 2016 at 04:43 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 202
From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
1115 AWHP from a stock internal M157? Clearly it has a full built engine to handle that power. So, thats not comparing apples to apples. But very impressive and I can't wait to see how fast they run.
I'm talking about stock with bolt ons. Maxed out on what the majority of people will ever do. Or what is readily available on the shelf.
Fully built one off race engines with race gas and huge turbos is not what I meant. In the aftermarket world you can make 1000WHP from less then 2.0L 4 cyl.
Weistec and other companies putting larger internals into the stock turbo exhaust manifolds already. Not getting anywhere near 1000AWHP.
I'm talking about stock with bolt ons. Maxed out on what the majority of people will ever do. Or what is readily available on the shelf.
Fully built one off race engines with race gas and huge turbos is not what I meant. In the aftermarket world you can make 1000WHP from less then 2.0L 4 cyl.
Weistec and other companies putting larger internals into the stock turbo exhaust manifolds already. Not getting anywhere near 1000AWHP.
also ams has already got around 787 awhp with just bolt on turbos and dp's and tune.... stock internals
nevertheless, the m157 is not maxed out yet... the more people that get them, the more people that will try different turbo sizes, fueling, cooling, timing, meth, no2, etc.... (all bolt ons)
so far not too many people have ventured past getting a tune on their car (i only know of 2 members on mbworld that have gotten a turbo package upgrade so far). so why would weistec or anyone else build a 1000+hp kit when only a few people as is are buying their milder 700-800hp turbo kits? there's not enough demand yet.... but once the M157 engines are all out of warranty then you should expect to see a big spike in demand.... at least that's my thought method= as long as my car is under warranty im not swapping turbos, but once its out of warranty let the games begin
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,681
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From: San Diego
E55
Do you think 920 WHP M157 stock internals is reliable for everyday use?
if not, how much do you think M157 can take for daily use?
Say for comparison, Stock E55 with bolt long tubes and weistec supercharger kit methanol big Throttle body can do about 690 whp more or less.
anymore then that and the rods will split apart, and the stock cast pistons and rings cant handle more abuse.
What do you think the max is for M157 stock internal all the bolts ons you want to throw in. Reliable as above for daily use if need be.
Not trying to prove any point. Just interesting to know HP to HP. Apples to Apples comparison.
if not, how much do you think M157 can take for daily use?
Say for comparison, Stock E55 with bolt long tubes and weistec supercharger kit methanol big Throttle body can do about 690 whp more or less.
anymore then that and the rods will split apart, and the stock cast pistons and rings cant handle more abuse.
What do you think the max is for M157 stock internal all the bolts ons you want to throw in. Reliable as above for daily use if need be.
Not trying to prove any point. Just interesting to know HP to HP. Apples to Apples comparison.
Last edited by Max.H; Jan 8, 2016 at 05:49 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 202
From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Do you think 920 WHP M157 stock internals is reliable for everyday use?
if not, how much do you think M157 can take for daily use?
Say for comparison, Stock E55 with bolt long tubes and weistec supercharger kit methanol big Throttle body can do about 690 whp more or less.
anymore then that and the rods will split apart, and the stock cast pistons and rings cant handle more abuse.
What do you think the max is for M157 stock internal all the bolts ons you want to throw in. Reliable as above for daily use if need be.
Not trying to prove any point. Just interesting to know HP to HP. Apples to Apples comparison.
if not, how much do you think M157 can take for daily use?
Say for comparison, Stock E55 with bolt long tubes and weistec supercharger kit methanol big Throttle body can do about 690 whp more or less.
anymore then that and the rods will split apart, and the stock cast pistons and rings cant handle more abuse.
What do you think the max is for M157 stock internal all the bolts ons you want to throw in. Reliable as above for daily use if need be.
Not trying to prove any point. Just interesting to know HP to HP. Apples to Apples comparison.
no one know for sure yet what m157 stock internals can handle for daily use, which is a good sign since the weistec, ams and renntech turbo kits are pushing 700-800 whp with no issues yet.... so who knows?? 900, maybe 1000?
but we know for sure when the guy that is at 1115 whp now was diving the SH$T out of his car when he was at the 920 whp level as you can see all the crazy races he has done on youtube and moscow unlimited races.... that's usually when something gives (WOT 170 + mph runs over and over again at events), not when just cruising around town in daily driving.... in daily driving your engine shouldnt blow unless you your daily drive includes multiple race start launches and multiple sustained runs to 180 mph
Last edited by gaspam; Jan 8, 2016 at 06:26 PM.
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Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 247
Likes: 23
Benz
as you noted e55 uses cast pistons.... m157 uses forged, it can handle a lot more power with stock internals than the e55 can
no one know for sure yet what m157 stock internals can handle for daily use, which is a good sign since the weistec, ams and renntech turbo kits are pushing 700-800 whp with no issues yet.... so who knows?? 900, maybe 1000?
but we know for sure when the guy that is at 1115 whp now was diving the SH$T out of his car when he was at the 920 whp level as you can see all the crazy races he has done on youtube and moscow unlimited races.... that's usually when something gives (WOT 170 + mph runs over and over again at events), not when just cruising around town in daily driving.... in daily driving your engine shouldnt blow unless you your daily drive includes multiple race start launches and multiple sustained runs to 180 mph
no one know for sure yet what m157 stock internals can handle for daily use, which is a good sign since the weistec, ams and renntech turbo kits are pushing 700-800 whp with no issues yet.... so who knows?? 900, maybe 1000?
but we know for sure when the guy that is at 1115 whp now was diving the SH$T out of his car when he was at the 920 whp level as you can see all the crazy races he has done on youtube and moscow unlimited races.... that's usually when something gives (WOT 170 + mph runs over and over again at events), not when just cruising around town in daily driving.... in daily driving your engine shouldnt blow unless you your daily drive includes multiple race start launches and multiple sustained runs to 180 mph
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 888
Likes: 4
From: Atlanta
'12 E63, E55(sold), C32 (sold), '65 Skylark GS 445 convertible, '12 ML350
I just got back from test driving a biturbo E63.... obviously completely stock.
Pretty sure my 55 is a bit faster (I thought it would be) and I'm really surprised how much larger the 212 feels than my 211... the hood in particular seems to go out a ways and it feels heavier.
Still undecided and may put feelers out to see what I can get for mine...
Pretty sure my 55 is a bit faster (I thought it would be) and I'm really surprised how much larger the 212 feels than my 211... the hood in particular seems to go out a ways and it feels heavier.
Still undecided and may put feelers out to see what I can get for mine...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,681
Likes: 39
From: San Diego
E55
as you noted e55 uses cast pistons.... m157 uses forged, it can handle a lot more power with stock internals than the e55 can
no one know for sure yet what m157 stock internals can handle for daily use, which is a good sign since the weistec, ams and renntech turbo kits are pushing 700-800 whp with no issues yet.... so who knows?? 900, maybe 1000?
but we know for sure when the guy that is at 1115 whp now was diving the SH$T out of his car when he was at the 920 whp level as you can see all the crazy races he has done on youtube and moscow unlimited races.... that's usually when something gives (WOT 170 + mph runs over and over again at events), not when just cruising around town in daily driving.... in daily driving your engine shouldnt blow unless you your daily drive includes multiple race start launches and multiple sustained runs to 180 mph
no one know for sure yet what m157 stock internals can handle for daily use, which is a good sign since the weistec, ams and renntech turbo kits are pushing 700-800 whp with no issues yet.... so who knows?? 900, maybe 1000?
but we know for sure when the guy that is at 1115 whp now was diving the SH$T out of his car when he was at the 920 whp level as you can see all the crazy races he has done on youtube and moscow unlimited races.... that's usually when something gives (WOT 170 + mph runs over and over again at events), not when just cruising around town in daily driving.... in daily driving your engine shouldnt blow unless you your daily drive includes multiple race start launches and multiple sustained runs to 180 mph
Gaspam, All modern cars use casted pistons. Your M157 does not have forged aluminum slugs or anything really much stronger if at all then other modern AMG engines. They just don't. They are all casted, all have coatings, and all go into aluminum blocks. Maybe the rods are a bit stronger or maybe not. I do not know for sure. But, I can tell you that an aluminum lined cylinders are pretty much all alike. So, there is nothing ground breaking.
High flow cylinder heads, 2 turbos, variable valve timing, are they key points that make the power in the M157. Hp here comes from Boost pressure and how much air the cylinder head can flow.
Those Power numbers are intense though. Enjoy your beast!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 72
From: Indianapolis
2004 E55.98 SS Camaro.Jetta TDI. Expedition
I just got back from test driving a biturbo E63.... obviously completely stock.
Pretty sure my 55 is a bit faster (I thought it would be) and I'm really surprised how much larger the 212 feels than my 211... the hood in particular seems to go out a ways and it feels heavier.
Still undecided and may put feelers out to see what I can get for mine...
Pretty sure my 55 is a bit faster (I thought it would be) and I'm really surprised how much larger the 212 feels than my 211... the hood in particular seems to go out a ways and it feels heavier.
Still undecided and may put feelers out to see what I can get for mine...
Have you not read the thread? There is no way the w211 can be faster
It's not possible you must be wrong
Lol JK
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Gaspam, All modern cars use casted pistons. Your M157 does not have forged aluminum slugs or anything really much stronger if at all then other modern AMG engines. They just don't. They are all casted, all have coatings, and all go into aluminum blocks. Maybe the rods are a bit stronger or maybe not. I do not know for sure.
I have had both cars (and even a c63 as well) and they just do not compare, the E55 was an amazing car in its day, just like my Audi b5 S4 was, but just like its no RS7, the E55 is no E63TT... thats just progress and evolution
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 72
From: Indianapolis
2004 E55.98 SS Camaro.Jetta TDI. Expedition
Your on point.... People are still hung up on the dated m113k as being the bench mark of performance and limits of engine internals. It's funny to me only because people seriously defend there cars and take it personally. It was a GREAT engine in its hay day. But the engine is literally 16 years old from its European debut. The m157 is far superior in all aspects from stronger internals, better heads, much better engine management the high pressure fuel injection on these alone makes tuning and higher power levels much more achievable and detonation more easily controlled. And then the transmissions are much more capable of handling higher power levels as well. The m157 is in its infancy with where it's going to go upgrades wise, the m113k has been wrote, rewrote, and then repeated.
The simple fact and basis of the tread has become no way an e55 hung with a biturbo. It's stupid to think it can't happen. If you have ever done runs from a roll you would know. Your car doesn't have to be faster to win sometimes.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 888
Likes: 4
From: Atlanta
'12 E63, E55(sold), C32 (sold), '65 Skylark GS 445 convertible, '12 ML350
he he... I was actually being really nice and lame in my post... because I know my car was actually much faster...
I also know this from when one of my best friends bought a brand new '12 CLS63 and my car barked all over his.... OK... not "ALL OVER"... yes... my car was faster and yes my car was/is pretty heavily modded.... and yes... INSTANTLY I saw that that stock car was just about as mean as my car.... I was like..."Holy sh*&.... this...is... stock...." It was the first biturbo I saw... and I was done.
That was the turning point for me.... I literally realized, "Yep... this biturbo platform....OMG..." But I'm so opposite of people in Atlanta buying cars... I think most people would agree that buying a car that is 1/3 your annual income is totally fine. Nope. Not me. I'm like... spending more than $50k on a car period is stupid. But not my friends.
Also... he's a very very successful doctor that has two big issues: control and no patience (but lots of patients). So that car lasted 8 tickets and 6 months. That was after his SL63 experiment which was worse. We've now got him on a totally built Jeep 4 door, a new E550 (which we're about to take away because OMG they're fast), and an A8L (which I secretly love).
And me being the cheapskate total..."I finally have it in my range" guy... am all on board the biturbo train.
I just know that actually right now... my E55 is faster. And still bulletproof reliable as it is...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 69
From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
Actually I think you have it reversed. Seems the biturbo crowd is getting pissy. I don't think anyone said anything bad about the biturbo or said the M113k was better. I know the new one is better. But I could care less because I have no interest in dropping 40k on any car. Just like in 04 when I was building ls1's I could care less about the m113k's.
The simple fact and basis of the tread has become no way an e55 hung with a biturbo. It's stupid to think it can't happen. If you have ever done runs from a roll you would know. Your car doesn't have to be faster to win sometimes.
The simple fact and basis of the tread has become no way an e55 hung with a biturbo. It's stupid to think it can't happen. If you have ever done runs from a roll you would know. Your car doesn't have to be faster to win sometimes.
+1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
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E63
I've had both....The E63 (with P30 package) was as fast than my modded E55. The turbo output seems does not throw you back like the roots style blower does in the 55. In fact the 63 has MUCH better traction as well (lit my 55 rear tires all the time).
The 63 does feel wider especially in the front (it is 2.2" wider chassis wise compared to the garden variety E class).
I also have the RennTech tune on my 63 and it now feels like my 55 low end wise, but with 660-700bhp, the 55 does not come close
The 63 does feel wider especially in the front (it is 2.2" wider chassis wise compared to the garden variety E class).
I also have the RennTech tune on my 63 and it now feels like my 55 low end wise, but with 660-700bhp, the 55 does not come close
Last edited by kponti; Jan 12, 2016 at 04:24 PM.
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 149
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From: Sweden
E500 -03
I've had both....The E63 (with P30 package) was as fast than my modded E55. The turbo output seems does not throw you back like the roots style blower does in the 55. In fact the 63 has MUCH better traction as well (lit my 55 rear tires all the time).
The 63 does feel wider especially in the front (it is 2.2" wider chassis wise compared to the garden variety E class).
I also have the RennTech tune on my 63 and it now feels like my 55 low end wise, but with 660-700bhp, the 55 does not come close
The 63 does feel wider especially in the front (it is 2.2" wider chassis wise compared to the garden variety E class).
I also have the RennTech tune on my 63 and it now feels like my 55 low end wise, but with 660-700bhp, the 55 does not come close
