When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
So I will begin this thread by beginning a parts order list. I am still waiting to hear from Alto about cross compatibility of clutch packs / steels / seals and sprags to use.
Here is what I found so far. I was hoping (shooting in the dark) that someone has done this before... Anyone is welcome to chime in if you have done this upgrade/rebuild.
Those numbers do not help me because I go through my trans supplier. you really do not need to spend crazy money on these. New sprags,clutchs, tighten up some clutch packs,have the 2nd and 3rd colleen steels put in.
The research and commenting is very much appreciated.
Is is there a way to find out if the s65 parts are somehow better or worse (or partly) than upgrade parts from the 722.6 that appears in the high powered dodge cars? Many more on the road and many modified.
$4850-$7450 lighter in the wallet if I paid someone to build it (SHP or Paramount ) lol
I only paid $5k for the car initially so I really do not see myself spending that kind of loot on any part... ever
Gonna go upgraded clutch packs on factory box rebuilt with minimum of replacement parts needed... going through the process now of tearing old box down, inspection, organization and parts order compilation... soda/media blasting casing to make the Aluminum all pretty again
Originally Posted by BC928
The research and commenting is very much appreciated.
Is is there a way to find out if the s65 parts are somehow better or worse (or partly) than upgrade parts from the 722.6 that appears in the high powered dodge cars? Many more on the road and many modified.
S65 parts will be WORSE than the Red Eagle- Alto branded parts that SHP and Paramount sell.
To my understanding the S65 .649 parts are dual sided clutches where some of our .643 boxes are single sided; this is how they are rated for the extra brunt those motors throw down
If you have an endless budget then get a nasty 1000whp/1350wtq box built by SHP or Paramount
I do not see my car ever making 1/2 that wtq even with my 185mm crank pulley I have on their, so why would I spend $1750 on parts?
Factory parts are pretty beastly and I will never go weistec/bi-turbo so just gonna get her right as rain and back to factory/factory+ status
THe .649 transmissions are not any stronger and do not hold any more power. They have the same number of clutches. THey just have bigger planetary gear sets. A completely stock transmission is totally sufficient. A valve body is the best investment for increased power. We no longer even build transmissions unless they are exceeding around 1000whp mark. Just a valve body and a tune.
You can get up to those numbers with a built transmission as well but that is a lot more money. I also only use factory clutches in all of my builds.
THe .649 transmissions are not any stronger and do not hold any more power. They have the same number of clutches. THey just have bigger planetary gear sets. A completely stock transmission is totally sufficient. A valve body is the best investment for increased power. We no longer even build transmissions unless they are exceeding around 1000whp mark. Just a valve body and a tune.
You can get up to those numbers with a built transmission as well but that is a lot more money. I also only use factory clutches in all of my builds.
My single dad wallet likes the language you are speaking! Thanks for the intel and I stand corrected...
I guess this is a good fact finding thread indeed; sorry to ***-U-ME this topic with the "I read it on the net somewhere" information.
The reading I found stated they were the same number of clutches but some were dual sided adding more bite... guess I (they) was wrong...
I just look forward to getting the factory box back to just that, factory refreshed state
THe .649 transmissions are not any stronger and do not hold any more power. They have the same number of clutches. THey just have bigger planetary gear sets. A completely stock transmission is totally sufficient. A valve body is the best investment for increased power. We no longer even build transmissions unless they are exceeding around 1000whp mark. Just a valve body and a tune.
You can get up to those numbers with a built transmission as well but that is a lot more money. I also only use factory clutches in all of my builds.
Which valve body? Some upgraded one? I'm interested... because I can do valve body on my tranny, what I can't do is even fathrom dropping the transmission like the lunatic that is OP... I'd rather fork over $5-7k and get it done somewhere lol
Which valve body? Some upgraded one? I'm interested... because I can do valve body on my tranny, what I can't do is even fathrom dropping the transmission like the lunatic that is OP... I'd rather fork over $5-7k and get it done somewhere lol
Trans drop is not too bad, it's just a burly job to get it separated and dropped. 1st time out took me forever, bc I took everything off to do it, both sides of exhaust, whole driveshaft etc. Now I know I can do it quicker due to experience and learning the best method. Seems a common theme across many projects in life, whether house, cars or writing code.
You can refresh VB with a new set of blue tops but you may have them already "if it is not broken, why fix", only replace if you have brown top solenoids. Add conductor plate + filter + fill with fluid ----> you are in "tada done state".
Dropping VB and pan you will have to fill back up with 4-5 quarts of Shell 134 ATF fluid fwiw
I used 4.5qts when I just dropped mine
Last edited by BoostedAero; 05-09-2017 at 10:23 AM.
are the bluetops a plug and play thing to do? what is exactly the benefit of these? theres many threads and discussion about these too, not that much fact. Thinking it would also be a good idea to do these just as a preventive maintenance? what do you guys think?
Trans drop is not too bad, it's just a burly job to get it separated and dropped. 1st time out took me forever, bc I took everything off to do it, both sides of exhaust, whole driveshaft etc. Now I know I can do it quicker due to experience and learning the best method. Seems a common theme across many projects in life, whether house, cars or writing code.
You can refresh VB with a new set of blue tops but you may have them already "if it is not broken, why fix", only replace if you have brown top solenoids. Add conductor plate + filter + fill with fluid ----> you are in "tada done state".
Dropping VB and pan you will have to fill back up with 4-5 quarts of Shell 134 ATF fluid fwiw
I used 4.5qts when I just dropped mine
Do you have a lift at home? I raised my CLK on 4 ramps and it was tall enough for me to work on my valve body.
Swapping the solenoids is easy, just gonna move em over... I think I'm gonna get this valve body and put it in, it's suprisingly affordable, I thought they'd ask for like $800...
I'll send em my old valve body from my CLK for the core charge...
Do you have a lift at home? I raised my CLK on 4 ramps and it was tall enough for me to work on my valve body.
Swapping the solenoids is easy, just gonna move em over... I think I'm gonna get this valve body and put it in, it's suprisingly affordable, I thought they'd ask for like $800...
I'll send em my old valve body from my CLK for the core charge...
I raise my car about 24" off the ground to remove trans, it sucked pretty bad to do all that horizontal concrete loving but I hate paying $ for stuff I can do myself (trans to be replaced)... no lift I just a regular jack and a air/hydraulic jack to get it on 4 jack stands
The smooth floor in my garage prevented me from being able to use the ramps I have
Originally Posted by Elhonaz
are the bluetops a plug and play thing to do? what is exactly the benefit of these? theres many threads and discussion about these too, not that much fact. Thinking it would also be a good idea to do these just as a preventive maintenance? what do you guys think?
To my understanding they have a larger orifice to push more fluid, they are plug and play and they offer firmer shifts due to their ability to push more fluid pressure through the system against the valves
Last edited by BoostedAero; 05-09-2017 at 12:13 PM.
Anything about what I am talking about can be found at my contacts.
I would just like to say that the SHR valve body is great product. But I am biased. I make them for them. I do not recommend that valve body without the ability to tune for it. It can and is normally very harsh. I have run it on Mercedes but it is pretty rough.
Anything about what I am talking about can be found at my contacts.
I would just like to say that the SHR valve body is great product. But I am biased. I make them for them. I do not recommend that valve body without the ability to tune for it. It can and is normally very harsh. I have run it on Mercedes but it is pretty rough.
whipple has known about this tech for 5 or 6 years...I am an IT crackhead and this is rather appealing bc I love to tinker. This initially was developed for a different market adapting the 722.6 to the MB diesel platform
TCM-2800 is a usual path to take as an alternative to upgrading the factory TCU with a flash. This seems another alternative if one loves to tinker... I myself love all things open source and wish someone would crack the 2.8 ecu... we shall wait and see
But ooooooooo and ahhhhhhh look at that pretty screen
Nice button and learning algorithms for shift firmness too
Not for faint of heart or light of wallet ($1k ish)
Last edited by BoostedAero; 05-10-2017 at 12:22 PM.
Shelving unit and table repurposed zip lock baggies on the ready - time to stay organized!
I will probably work from the rear planet gears back down to the bell/stator/pump/b1 side
F1 appears good, covered everything up to protect it from dust until I can clear out some more time this weekend to start inspecting clutches
(I go back to Va/NC border to retrieve car and install new alternator tomorrow so fun times are ahead)
I will be taking pictures all along the way to ease re-assembly
Last edited by BoostedAero; 05-10-2017 at 11:47 AM.
Actually the aftermarket TCM-2800 from Powertrain Control Solutions was developed for other transmissions entirely. I started working with them over 9years ago to do the 722.6 for a personal project. They had done limited applications for a military vehicle with the 722.6 or something of that nature. I have been a dealer for them since around 2009. The other controller you show there is from someone else.
Will ....I just popped a new regulator in after reading your plight. Nothing wrong with the old one but figured with 60k on her why not.I always have a spare along with the crank sensor as well in the trunk.
Actually the aftermarket TCM-2800 from Powertrain Control Solutions was developed for other transmissions entirely. I started working with them over 9years ago to do the 722.6 for a personal project. They had done limited applications for a military vehicle with the 722.6 or something of that nature. I have been a dealer for them since around 2009. The other controller you show there is from someone else.
^ Like I said ----> you are a bad@$$
Here is where I got my 5-6 year time stamp whipple ;-D
Hit Whipple up if you want to go aftermarket with the 2800
To my understanding the 2800 has more R&D done on our chassis and you could have a base file worked up from someone who posted up on this forum a while ago just do some searching
Whipple was that you that was working up the TCM-2800 thread a while ago...? I got buried with work load / car projects / honey-do list :-/
I am a UNIX/Objective C guy so anything open source is very appealing to me
Last edited by BoostedAero; 05-11-2017 at 09:02 AM.
Will ....I just popped a new regulator in after reading your plight. Nothing wrong with the old one but figured with 60k on her why not.I always have a spare along with the crank sensor as well in the trunk.
I knew you were a smart cookie from chatting you up
I am happy to contribute, I really like hearing about other people's crappy car problems and fixing my issues before they happen
I guess it was my turn to contribute to the pack lol
The TCM-2800 is a full standalone system that can be integrated in factory car but if you just want firmer shifts then it is a lot of hassle and overkill for the money. A valve body can totally take car of that. I have lots of base files for different applications.
None of this is open source though. You have tuning software to adjust tuning parameters but you cannot change the firmware. You can look at the products at PCS website.
So upon disassembly I have found one item of concern so far... perhaps it is not even an issue or maybe it is...?
The front planet gearing + K2 clutch drum + input shaft assembly is currently locked onto the K3 clutch drum + rear Planet + output shaft portion
This is the only failure/oddity I have found so far, Sprags lock clockwise and do not slip, clutches inspected so far look similar to below, well grooved and do not smell burned at all.
Initially the transmission had symptoms of 1 to 2nd gear shift was normal and smooth after reset. Then 2nd gear shifting to 3rd would just go into freewheel/neutral then drop back to 2nd gear and put trans in limp mode...Conductor plate, flush and VB clean out was done in an effort to resolve these symptoms prior to trans being replaced...
I thought it would be a f2 sprag failure from those symptoms but with this discovery perhaps this was the issue....
Investigation continues
Last edited by BoostedAero; 05-11-2017 at 10:56 AM.
05-05-2017, 10:18 AM
