Autocar E55 vs M5
09-19-2004, 07:39 AM
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by W210
Congratulations on your one month old C55, it looks very nice!
Believe or not , many thoughts been given for a decision of the C55; one of those was would the slightly cheaper 545i 333hp be a sensible replacement? And really, the 5's new look really not a bit made me feel excited to invest a fortune on.
cheers
cnt
09-19-2004, 08:00 AM
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04 E55
Hey, nothing wrong with a thread like this as long as it doesn't turn nasty with personal insults. Part of the fun of writing on the board, making these comparisons. It's the adult version of my dad can kick your dad's butt. 
We can argue and we can lament, but in the end when we put our money down for a car, we buy it for what it is, not for what it isn't. Then you have to get as much enjoyment out of those things as you can.
We can argue and we can lament, but in the end when we put our money down for a car, we buy it for what it is, not for what it isn't. Then you have to get as much enjoyment out of those things as you can.
09-19-2004, 08:27 AM
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
C55 and 545i in Hong Kong
Originally Posted by cntlaw
Thanks , yes , more young looking than my W210 but I truly miss my good times with the W210 for three whoile years - he never let me down.
Believe or not , many thoughts been given for a decision of the C55; one of those was would the slightly cheaper 545i 333hp be a sensible replacement? And really, the 5's new look really not a bit made me feel excited to invest a fortune on.
cheers
cnt
Believe or not , many thoughts been given for a decision of the C55; one of those was would the slightly cheaper 545i 333hp be a sensible replacement? And really, the 5's new look really not a bit made me feel excited to invest a fortune on.
cheers
cnt
I can see the initial toss up between the C55 and 545i but I think you have made the wise choice, especially for use in Hong Kong.
Besides BMW's traditionally steeper depreciation in where you live, I suspect the new 5 will require a lot of software updates (similar to the 7) which will be a nuisance in HK where BMW dealerships hardly provide loaner cars and service stations are often in remote places.
I had a W210 for a couple of years too, excellent car my only complaint was the wiper blades requiring a lot of maintenance. It's good to see MB moving back to dual blades.
Happy motoring!
09-19-2004, 11:03 AM
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by W210
Yes, I quite agree. Most people (including my wife)'s number one complaint of the 5 is the looks, followed by the ergonomics. I personally haven't warmed up to the new 5's interior and exterior design yet.
I can see the initial toss up between the C55 and 545i but I think you have made the wise choice, especially for use in Hong Kong.
Besides BMW's traditionally steeper depreciation in where you live, I suspect the new 5 will require a lot of software updates (similar to the 7) which will be a nuisance in HK where BMW dealerships hardly provide loaner cars and service stations are often in remote places.
I had a W210 for a couple of years too, excellent car my only complaint was the wiper blades requiring a lot of maintenance. It's good to see MB moving back to dual blades.
Happy motoring!
I can see the initial toss up between the C55 and 545i but I think you have made the wise choice, especially for use in Hong Kong.
Besides BMW's traditionally steeper depreciation in where you live, I suspect the new 5 will require a lot of software updates (similar to the 7) which will be a nuisance in HK where BMW dealerships hardly provide loaner cars and service stations are often in remote places.
I had a W210 for a couple of years too, excellent car my only complaint was the wiper blades requiring a lot of maintenance. It's good to see MB moving back to dual blades.
Happy motoring!
All very true points. Not meant to depart from M5 and E55 speeds talk over this thread
I am sure M5 and E55 owners are true sports car lovers who want to get the top of the range that they can afford while maintaining a means of practical day-to-day use in terms of luxury features, passenger space, safety and personality.You are right that , in HK, BMW brand are not matching the same 'class' as MB. The 3 Series might be doing better than the C because they are still 'cheaper' as being a European car; and its sporty image does attract the young generation. (That was true before the launch of the facelift C200K sports package )
There is no room for the 5's to breathe in the used market, possibly they are not looked as a car to be kept for 'vintage look' as the MB. MB has always been no.1 reputation in HK and China. I guess not many people (especially in China) over here aware that BMW can be as expensive and as 'luxury' as the MBs. In high car tax , HK, a car costs more than a 3 litre Toyota is already being considered as a luxury car ! So anyone pays for a higher price tag for a car does care about the popularity of the brand in the used market.
( Over here, Audi is even less popular than the MB and BMW, but seems the aggressive A4 does gain some market share in recent years. The used market for Audi is still disastrous.)
Leave the sports perfromance aside, in the past years or so, the E class W210 and W211 are truly winners over the 5 series in most aspects. In HK, the W211 are now jamming up the tiny place. Unlike last generation's popular 520i, nowdays it is harder for me to see a new 5. Many dealers bring in the lowest model E200 W211 and you know what that means to the 520's.
If all above are not one's concern, then I would say at some points of time, the V10 M5 is definitely unique enough for someone who loves the brand and can afford to take the monster home.
MB lovers always know why and what they can get out from an MB, I truly wish we will see a E65 V10 soon!
cnt
09-19-2004, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cntlaw
W210,
All very true points. Not meant to depart from M5 and E55 speeds talk over this thread I am sure M5 and E55 owners are true sports car lovers who want to get the top of the range that they can afford while maintaining a means of practical day-to-day use in terms of luxury features, passenger space, safety and personality.
You are right that , in HK, BMW brand are not matching the same 'class' as MB. The 3 Series might be doing better than the C because they are still 'cheaper' as being a European car; and its sporty image does attract the young generation. (That was true before the launch of the facelift C200K sports package )
There is no room for the 5's to breathe in the used market, possibly they are not looked as a car to be kept for 'vintage look' as the MB. MB has always been no.1 reputation in HK and China. I guess not many people (especially in China) over here aware that BMW can be as expensive and as 'luxury' as the MBs. In high car tax , HK, a car costs more than a 3 litre Toyota is already being considered as a luxury car ! So anyone pays for a higher price tag for a car does care about the popularity of the brand in the used market.
( Over here, Audi is even less popular than the MB and BMW, but seems the aggressive A4 does gain some market share in recent years. The used market for Audi is still disastrous.)
Leave the sports perfromance aside, in the past years or so, the E class W210 and W211 are truly winners over the 5 series in most aspects. In HK, the W211 are now jamming up the tiny place. Unlike last generation's popular 520i, nowdays it is harder for me to see a new 5. Many dealers bring in the lowest model E200 W211 and you know what that means to the 520's.
If all above are not one's concern, then I would say at some points of time, the V10 M5 is definitely unique enough for someone who loves the brand and can afford to take the monster home.
MB lovers always know why and what they can get out from an MB, I truly wish we will see a E65 V10 soon!
cnt
All very true points. Not meant to depart from M5 and E55 speeds talk over this thread
I am sure M5 and E55 owners are true sports car lovers who want to get the top of the range that they can afford while maintaining a means of practical day-to-day use in terms of luxury features, passenger space, safety and personality.You are right that , in HK, BMW brand are not matching the same 'class' as MB. The 3 Series might be doing better than the C because they are still 'cheaper' as being a European car; and its sporty image does attract the young generation. (That was true before the launch of the facelift C200K sports package )
There is no room for the 5's to breathe in the used market, possibly they are not looked as a car to be kept for 'vintage look' as the MB. MB has always been no.1 reputation in HK and China. I guess not many people (especially in China) over here aware that BMW can be as expensive and as 'luxury' as the MBs. In high car tax , HK, a car costs more than a 3 litre Toyota is already being considered as a luxury car ! So anyone pays for a higher price tag for a car does care about the popularity of the brand in the used market.
( Over here, Audi is even less popular than the MB and BMW, but seems the aggressive A4 does gain some market share in recent years. The used market for Audi is still disastrous.)
Leave the sports perfromance aside, in the past years or so, the E class W210 and W211 are truly winners over the 5 series in most aspects. In HK, the W211 are now jamming up the tiny place. Unlike last generation's popular 520i, nowdays it is harder for me to see a new 5. Many dealers bring in the lowest model E200 W211 and you know what that means to the 520's.
If all above are not one's concern, then I would say at some points of time, the V10 M5 is definitely unique enough for someone who loves the brand and can afford to take the monster home.
MB lovers always know why and what they can get out from an MB, I truly wish we will see a E65 V10 soon!
cnt
Also, the new 7 series seems to be doing a lot better there than the previous model. I can't remember seeing a single E38 7 series, (plenty of W140 S classes though), but I would notice 2 or 3 E65's a day... in fact, I saw my first 760Li in person in HK.
Maybe it's just me, but it does seem like benz is losing a little popularity in HK.
09-19-2004, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cntlaw
You are right that , in HK, BMW brand are not matching the same 'class' as MB. The 3 Series might be doing better than the C because they are still 'cheaper' as being a European car; and its sporty image does attract the young generation. (That was true before the launch of the facelift C200K sports package )
There is no room for the 5's to breathe in the used market, possibly they are not looked as a car to be kept for 'vintage look' as the MB. MB has always been no.1 reputation in HK and China. I guess not many people (especially in China) over here aware that BMW can be as expensive and as 'luxury' as the MBs. In high car tax , HK, a car costs more than a 3 litre Toyota is already being considered as a luxury car ! So anyone pays for a higher price tag for a car does care about the popularity of the brand in the used market.
( Over here, Audi is even less popular than the MB and BMW, but seems the aggressive A4 does gain some market share in recent years. The used market for Audi is still disastrous.)
Leave the sports perfromance aside, in the past years or so, the E class W210 and W211 are truly winners over the 5 series in most aspects. In HK, the W211 are now jamming up the tiny place. Unlike last generation's popular 520i, nowdays it is harder for me to see a new 5. Many dealers bring in the lowest model E200 W211 and you know what that means to the 520's.
There is no room for the 5's to breathe in the used market, possibly they are not looked as a car to be kept for 'vintage look' as the MB. MB has always been no.1 reputation in HK and China. I guess not many people (especially in China) over here aware that BMW can be as expensive and as 'luxury' as the MBs. In high car tax , HK, a car costs more than a 3 litre Toyota is already being considered as a luxury car ! So anyone pays for a higher price tag for a car does care about the popularity of the brand in the used market.
( Over here, Audi is even less popular than the MB and BMW, but seems the aggressive A4 does gain some market share in recent years. The used market for Audi is still disastrous.)
Leave the sports perfromance aside, in the past years or so, the E class W210 and W211 are truly winners over the 5 series in most aspects. In HK, the W211 are now jamming up the tiny place. Unlike last generation's popular 520i, nowdays it is harder for me to see a new 5. Many dealers bring in the lowest model E200 W211 and you know what that means to the 520's.
Last edited by W210; 09-19-2004 at 10:29 PM.
09-20-2004, 03:17 AM
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"Some things aren’t right, however. You don’t get an engine to rev like this without paying the price somewhere, and BMW privately admits it lacks the low-down torque of the old V8. This is less of a problem than the V10’s noise at speed. Despite being geared to reach its top speed in the fifth of its seven gears, you can never quite escape the V10’s voice. It’s fun for a while but a little draining after a few hours.
In addition, the gearbox is not the thing of wonder its seven ratios might suggest. It’s the smoothest yet of BMW’s semi-autos, but compared with the semi-automatic system you can specify on a humble VW Golf it feels a little hesitant.
But none of this can spoil the next true great in the pantheon of sporting BMWs. After the disappointment of the M3 CSL, I had feared BMW was losing its grip on what matters with such cars, but the M5 proves it is back on top of its game. Having been eclipsed by the E55 AMG, the M5 is back where it began 20 years ago, as the greatest sporting saloon on the road. "
In addition, the gearbox is not the thing of wonder its seven ratios might suggest. It’s the smoothest yet of BMW’s semi-autos, but compared with the semi-automatic system you can specify on a humble VW Golf it feels a little hesitant.
But none of this can spoil the next true great in the pantheon of sporting BMWs. After the disappointment of the M3 CSL, I had feared BMW was losing its grip on what matters with such cars, but the M5 proves it is back on top of its game. Having been eclipsed by the E55 AMG, the M5 is back where it began 20 years ago, as the greatest sporting saloon on the road. "
09-20-2004, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Belmondo
"Some things aren’t right, however. You don’t get an engine to rev like this without paying the price somewhere, and BMW privately admits it lacks the low-down torque of the old V8. This is less of a problem than the V10’s noise at speed. Despite being geared to reach its top speed in the fifth of its seven gears, you can never quite escape the V10’s voice. It’s fun for a while but a little draining after a few hours.
In addition, the gearbox is not the thing of wonder its seven ratios might suggest. It’s the smoothest yet of BMW’s semi-autos, but compared with the semi-automatic system you can specify on a humble VW Golf it feels a little hesitant.
But none of this can spoil the next true great in the pantheon of sporting BMWs. After the disappointment of the M3 CSL, I had feared BMW was losing its grip on what matters with such cars, but the M5 proves it is back on top of its game. Having been eclipsed by the E55 AMG, the M5 is back where it began 20 years ago, as the greatest sporting saloon on the road. "
In addition, the gearbox is not the thing of wonder its seven ratios might suggest. It’s the smoothest yet of BMW’s semi-autos, but compared with the semi-automatic system you can specify on a humble VW Golf it feels a little hesitant.
But none of this can spoil the next true great in the pantheon of sporting BMWs. After the disappointment of the M3 CSL, I had feared BMW was losing its grip on what matters with such cars, but the M5 proves it is back on top of its game. Having been eclipsed by the E55 AMG, the M5 is back where it began 20 years ago, as the greatest sporting saloon on the road. "
Gotta love the way he ended his review, espeically the last line.
Here is the link of the whole review:
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...267304,00.html
The NEW M5 is not perfect, but it makes sense for me 'cos for me PERFORMANCE > COMFORT, I am willing to give a bit of luxury, comfort for its superior handling and enjoyment in driving. And I agree with the editor on the fact on the SL65.
I wonder your intention of posting only part of the review but the entire review for members to determine where the M5 stands themselves.
Mike
09-20-2004, 09:09 AM
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Turbo
I LOVE the E60 M5 for it's engine, sound, performance and the gadgets (SMGII, active seats, HUD etc). But I'm not that fond of the exterior styling. It has grown on me but I don't think it's as beautiful as the E55 or E39 M5. And I HATE the interior.... Merc and Audi has much much better looking interiors.
If I had the money I don't think that I would buy one. It doesn't matter how good or fast a car is. If your going to use a car as your daily driver, and I think 99.9% will in this case, you just can't buy one that you think is ugly....
So, do I like the E60 M5 - yes.
But I wouldn't buy one myself. :p
If I had the money I don't think that I would buy one. It doesn't matter how good or fast a car is. If your going to use a car as your daily driver, and I think 99.9% will in this case, you just can't buy one that you think is ugly....
So, do I like the E60 M5 - yes.
But I wouldn't buy one myself. :p
09-20-2004, 02:53 PM
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as far as new 5 sales in China and taiwan ( since they are the same importer).
They have adapted a strategy that has really hurts the sales of new BMW. BMW used to have a more in-line price than MB. However, with introduction of new E60, BMW in Taiwan/China has chosen the strategy to price their car slightly above the W211 thus hurting the sales (it was a huge jump in price from E39 to E60).
The problem with BMW's image in country like taiwan, china, and hong kong is that is has tremendous linkage to mofia and gangs. It's not because BMW is not perceived as a less luxury or as expansive as mecedes. It is this gang related image that is really hurting the BMW. In addition, for people who is shopping in this price range in asian country is not really looking for performance. To them this is more of a status symbol. Hence W211's more elegant exterior won out against too exotic design from BMW. That's why the new 7 also bombed against an already old s-class design and E60 is getting their *** whipped against W211.
The asian market is totally different than european and american market. To them status symbol is more important than the car itself. Also, the i-drive does not help. Most of owner in this price range don't even know what is windows. It would already be a miracle for them to know what window is. for them to understand I-drive would be like asking amish to fly a 747.
They have adapted a strategy that has really hurts the sales of new BMW. BMW used to have a more in-line price than MB. However, with introduction of new E60, BMW in Taiwan/China has chosen the strategy to price their car slightly above the W211 thus hurting the sales (it was a huge jump in price from E39 to E60).
The problem with BMW's image in country like taiwan, china, and hong kong is that is has tremendous linkage to mofia and gangs. It's not because BMW is not perceived as a less luxury or as expansive as mecedes. It is this gang related image that is really hurting the BMW. In addition, for people who is shopping in this price range in asian country is not really looking for performance. To them this is more of a status symbol. Hence W211's more elegant exterior won out against too exotic design from BMW. That's why the new 7 also bombed against an already old s-class design and E60 is getting their *** whipped against W211.
The asian market is totally different than european and american market. To them status symbol is more important than the car itself. Also, the i-drive does not help. Most of owner in this price range don't even know what is windows. It would already be a miracle for them to know what window is. for them to understand I-drive would be like asking amish to fly a 747.
09-20-2004, 05:20 PM
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Mercedes-Benz A170 CDI
I'm going to stick my neck out on the line and say....
The E60 M5 is marvel of engineering. It MUST be appreciated. The E55 is a phenomenal car in many respects, but the M5 delivers sports car thrills in a saloon, and that engine is magnificent. I know Audi has developed its own V10 with very very similar torque and power outputs, but a BMW engine should always be appreciated. The noise is pure sportscar, or pure BMW M I should say. Ok, the looks are questionable, but just look beyond that, and you will find a seriously accomplished car, in many respects.
I for one, completely believe the E55 is only the car it is today because of the M5 generation. Let the war continue. These are some serious performance saloons and should be respected as much. Whoever you are, you'll think twice about messing with these two.
There I said it.
I for one, completely believe the E55 is only the car it is today because of the M5 generation. Let the war continue. These are some serious performance saloons and should be respected as much. Whoever you are, you'll think twice about messing with these two.
There I said it.
09-20-2004, 10:19 PM
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The problem with BMW's image in country like taiwan, china, and hong kong is that is has tremendous linkage to mofia and gangs.
Besides, if people wanted ultimate performance, they could opt for high performance Japanese cars. Since thecontroversial 7er and 5er came out, many had lost faith in BMW in HK because styling matters a lot in this culture
09-21-2004, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon200
where did u get this information? My home base is HK and I have never heard of anything like this. In Hong Kong, people buy Benz because they are generally perceived to be more luxurious than BMW. Yes BMWs are better in handling but Hong Kong is an extremely small place which is already over crowded with Vans, trucks and double decked buses. Not everyone can fully utilise the chasis of BMW or drive it like they are made for.
Besides, if people wanted ultimate performance, they could opt for high performance Japanese cars. Since thecontroversial 7er and 5er came out, many had lost faith in BMW in HK because styling matters a lot in this culture
Besides, if people wanted ultimate performance, they could opt for high performance Japanese cars. Since thecontroversial 7er and 5er came out, many had lost faith in BMW in HK because styling matters a lot in this culture
09-21-2004, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by krispykrme
Nope. If you go to taiwan, or any big city in china you will find pretty much all mafia drives BMW. Hong kong is a small market compare to China and taiwan combined. BMW is not doing well because of mafia connection.
a car brand isn't doing well because of mafia connection 
I went to Taiwan last summer and saw roughly equal numbers of bimmers and benz, couldn't tell whether they were mafias driving them. There were plenty of Audis and Volkswagens in Shanghai the lower east regions, couldn't much bimmers either.
Are you from any one of these places, HK/Taiwan/China? Hong Kong has one of the biggest Benz markets in the world in terms of its population
09-21-2004, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by krispykrme
Nope. If you go to taiwan, or any big city in china you will find pretty much all mafia drives BMW. Hong kong is a small market compare to China and taiwan combined. BMW is not doing well because of mafia connection.
09-21-2004, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon200
a car brand isn't doing well because of mafia connection I went to Taiwan last summer and saw roughly equal numbers of bimmers and benz, couldn't tell whether they were mafias driving them. There were plenty of Audis and Volkswagens in Shanghai the lower east regions, couldn't much bimmers either.
Are you from any one of these places, HK/Taiwan/China? Hong Kong has one of the biggest Benz markets in the world in terms of its population
You are wrong in this. DCT sells about 1.7 times more than BMW in taiwan. In addition, the grey market also see better performance on MB than BMW. The majority of BMW sold are low end E46 with very few higher price model. While majority of MB sales in Taiwan are those of W211 or above. I believe motor trend in taiwan did a study of taiwan market a while back can back these fact. In fact the S-class outsold E46 in taiwan is a very common occurance. The same pattern is also now appearing in Chinese market as well.
Both audi and VW has high concernration is simply because they are produced locally in China and is much cheaper. BMW just started making E46 and E60 in china. Hence this argument is invalid.
The perception of BMW in China and Taiwanese market is highly related to mafia image. Here is several article you can see what actor in taiwan says about BMW. http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...81%93&hl=zh-TW
The problem with driving BMW especially in black in taiwan, you are already a target by police being mafia or gang. Since crime family in taiwan and china are very closely related, their habit is almost the same. If you go to night club or KTV area at night you will find way more black BMW with all window darkly tinted with body guards all around.
This is very typical scene in taiwan and in china. It also a lot of reason why excutive in taiwan perfer MB over BMW. My family is a very good example of this. My family has always chosen MB over BMW simply because they do not want to be perceived as gang/mafia related. Hence you rarely see legitimate rich family drive around in BMW, but quiet a bit of mercedes.
09-21-2004, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon200
And I was talking about HK only
I was replying to CNTLAW about china market. Because it is not really the luxury issue, it was more due to the poor image of BMW with all those big brother.
09-21-2004, 06:25 AM
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Poker anyone?
Originally Posted by Jon200
Since the controversial 7er and 5er came out, many had lost faith in BMW in HK because styling matters a lot in this culture
I think I have looked at the back of the new 5 enough to not mind it, but those headlights, they remind me of those angry gangsters from Japan (or perhaps Taiwan).
Hopefully, once they complete the ugly Bangle straight flush 3,4,5,6,7, BMW will turn the page and go back to the nicer cars they used to make.
I am not particularly picky on car designs I see lots of perfectly acceptable cars coming out of the assembly line which I like, all the time, like the E-class, G35, 350Z, TL, Maserati 4 door, C-class, M45, SL, CLK, RL, TSX, Mustang, Mini, LR3, Touareg, Range Rover, A8, A6, A4, Golf, heck, even the Dodge Magnum looks better than the Bangle 4567 in my opinion.
09-21-2004, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by krispykrme
good points krispy. here are my 2cents
as far as new 5 sales in China and taiwan ( since they are the same importer). They have adapted a strategy that has really hurts the sales of new BMW. BMW used to have a more in-line price than MB. However, with introduction of new E60, BMW in Taiwan/China has chosen the strategy to price their car slightly above the W211 thus hurting the sales (it was a huge jump in price from E39 to E60).
=== Not too familiar with china and taiwan market, I must say that for HK, ppl buy a low end BMW 3 or 5 is because they want the best brand european car but could not afford the MB equivalent ( that does not mean they are poor , but the small geographic of HK does not really need high end engines, and big engines has a more luxury image ; surely fuel cost in HK is dear ~USD1.7 per litre ) Of course, some car owner newbies would still think that BMW is younger and more sporty looking - and this perception is quite outdated.
The problem with BMW's image in country like taiwan, china, and hong kong is that is has tremendous linkage to mofia and gangs. It's not because BMW is not perceived as a less luxury or as expansive as mecedes. It is this gang related image that is really hurting the BMW.
==== Not really felt that . Not so sure about Taiwan that BMW related to a mofia image. But I can be 100% sure that , in Japan, most MB S class AMG and CL class AMG are definitely owned by the mofia. You can see them parked outside clubs in Roppongi and Shijuku areas in Tokyo.
In addition, for people who is shopping in this price range in asian country is not really looking for performance. To them this is more of a status symbol. Hence W211's more elegant exterior won out against too exotic design from BMW. That's why the new 7 also bombed against an already old s-class design and E60 is getting their *** whipped against W211.
==== I am not in a position to tell 'consumer behavior' , and I shall leave this to the MB/BMW marketing professionals.
Cannot compare ppl in HK with ppl in China, in HK, we have more multi billionaires here who do not drive a million (HK) dollar car.
I guess some richer biz men in china cares nothing but a MB star at the front.
I agree that most matured owners buy S350 and at most S500, anyone who buys a S600 can be considered as "one who wants to tell ppl he has a taste of top quality and can afford it".
The asian market is totally different than european and american market. To them status symbol is more important than the car itself. Also, the i-drive does not help. Most of owner in this price range don't even know what is windows. It would already be a miracle for them to know what window is. for them to understand I-drive would be like asking amish to fly a 747.
======== well.. a bit subjective , I would not underestimate the rich men knowledge and taste.
09-21-2004, 10:50 AM
#98
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by Bilal
The E60 M5 is marvel of engineering. It MUST be appreciated. The E55 is a phenomenal car in many respects, but the M5 delivers sports car thrills in a saloon, and that engine is magnificent. I know Audi has developed its own V10 with very very similar torque and power outputs, but a BMW engine should always be appreciated. The noise is pure sportscar, or pure BMW M I should say. Ok, the looks are questionable, but just look beyond that, and you will find a seriously accomplished car, in many respects.
I for one, completely believe the E55 is only the car it is today because of the M5 generation. Let the war continue. These are some serious performance saloons and should be respected as much. Whoever you are, you'll think twice about messing with these two.
There I said it.
I for one, completely believe the E55 is only the car it is today because of the M5 generation. Let the war continue. These are some serious performance saloons and should be respected as much. Whoever you are, you'll think twice about messing with these two.
There I said it.
Anyhow, last generations of M5 were never popular I guess mainly because its price and relatively fewer true rich BMW fans in HK.
Ppl buys a M5 must be rich and want to own a sedan with unique perfromance and a top of the range and fewer owners in town too.
The W211 is a winner. E60 is bounded to be a loser.
If the world were without the E55 , BMW can sell a few more M5.
That is just in the sale volume point of view.
A car does not sell more than the other , truly does not mean it is a worse car.
cnt
09-21-2004, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by krispykrme
I am from Taiwan and visit china on numerous occasions.
You are wrong in this. DCT sells about 1.7 times more than BMW in taiwan. In addition, the grey market also see better performance on MB than BMW. The majority of BMW sold are low end E46 with very few higher price model. While majority of MB sales in Taiwan are those of W211 or above. I believe motor trend in taiwan did a study of taiwan market a while back can back these fact. In fact the S-class outsold E46 in taiwan is a very common occurance. The same pattern is also now appearing in Chinese market as well.
Both audi and VW has high concernration is simply because they are produced locally in China and is much cheaper. BMW just started making E46 and E60 in china. Hence this argument is invalid.
The perception of BMW in China and Taiwanese market is highly related to mafia image. Here is several article you can see what actor in taiwan says about BMW. http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...81%93&hl=zh-TW
The problem with driving BMW especially in black in taiwan, you are already a target by police being mafia or gang. Since crime family in taiwan and china are very closely related, their habit is almost the same. If you go to night club or KTV area at night you will find way more black BMW with all window darkly tinted with body guards all around.
This is very typical scene in taiwan and in china. It also a lot of reason why excutive in taiwan perfer MB over BMW. My family is a very good example of this. My family has always chosen MB over BMW simply because they do not want to be perceived as gang/mafia related. Hence you rarely see legitimate rich family drive around in BMW, but quiet a bit of mercedes.
You are wrong in this. DCT sells about 1.7 times more than BMW in taiwan. In addition, the grey market also see better performance on MB than BMW. The majority of BMW sold are low end E46 with very few higher price model. While majority of MB sales in Taiwan are those of W211 or above. I believe motor trend in taiwan did a study of taiwan market a while back can back these fact. In fact the S-class outsold E46 in taiwan is a very common occurance. The same pattern is also now appearing in Chinese market as well.
Both audi and VW has high concernration is simply because they are produced locally in China and is much cheaper. BMW just started making E46 and E60 in china. Hence this argument is invalid.
The perception of BMW in China and Taiwanese market is highly related to mafia image. Here is several article you can see what actor in taiwan says about BMW. http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...81%93&hl=zh-TW
The problem with driving BMW especially in black in taiwan, you are already a target by police being mafia or gang. Since crime family in taiwan and china are very closely related, their habit is almost the same. If you go to night club or KTV area at night you will find way more black BMW with all window darkly tinted with body guards all around.
This is very typical scene in taiwan and in china. It also a lot of reason why excutive in taiwan perfer MB over BMW. My family is a very good example of this. My family has always chosen MB over BMW simply because they do not want to be perceived as gang/mafia related. Hence you rarely see legitimate rich family drive around in BMW, but quiet a bit of mercedes.
09-21-2004, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by krispykrme
I was not talking to you at 1st either.
I was replying to CNTLAW about china market. Because it is not really the luxury issue, it was more due to the poor image of BMW with all those big brother.
I was replying to CNTLAW about china market. Because it is not really the luxury issue, it was more due to the poor image of BMW with all those big brother.
