BerndV

I have no idea. GAD obviously won't disclose proprietary information about their performance modifications. I don't speak fluent enough German to call them on the phone and inquire. Because their products are not available in North America and there would be zero support if someone shipped their TCU to Germany, frankly I only care to the extent of intellectual curiosity. Speculation from those with whom I've spoken in the US tuning community who are vaguely familiar with GAD is that they might be utilizing some form of CAN BUS modification. Additionally, very few people are going to want to take the bottom half of their transmission apart, remove the TCU, ship it to Germany, have it shipped back, hope that there is no shipping damage, and reinstall it, and hope for the best. Additionally, with this modification it is possible that all dealership diagnostic assistance with any potential transmission problems would be permanently lost. I would never take that chance even if I was out of warranty. ECU's are MUCH simpler to modify or completely replace i.e. a standalone.

Speedriven1

From what I understand, they're working to bump TQ limits throughout the RPM range and in different gears- but they're still limited to the same "max value" that everyone else is because it's written into the firmware.

BerndV

The speculation regarding the CAN BUS modification came from Marcin there at Speedriven.

kponti

Not saying you are wrong, but what's the difference between what you described ie shipping and TCU map modification part that has not already been done already on most other TCUs from say the E55? Those have yet to be problematic
Seems the same except reaching the TCU on this car is a bigger challenge than on the old cars.

On another note, on the E55s, there was an issue of trans fluid wicking up the wires and entering the TCU over time if the connector was leaking. Now the TCU is buried inside the trans, I wonder if we will see more of that issue when these cars reach 80-100k miles?

Zod

So what you are saying is purely speculation and on what people told you...

GAD races in Germany and they go up against other tuners over there. Now I know nothing of their modification, other then what is shared online and their results. They are by far the ones who have pushed this platform. No one else has doing any where near what they have done and this is not speculation this is fact based on the results.

I disagree with what you said about possible damage & shipping issues, as those have nothing to do with actual tuning of the TCU and are more a general risks with tuning in general. You install a bad tune and your engine blows...replacing ECU wont fix that for example

ECU standalone is not common on benzs and has yet to really take off...so not sure how you claim its much simpler, when it has yet to be done and tested by the user base nor is it the common approach for people who mod their cars

Stage 1 tune (stand alone ECU)
Most likely it will be along the lines of stage 5 or 6+, just saying

Zod

have you seen their 1000hp car?

how can that car achieve such numbers with no TCU mods?

BerndV

You stated that your knowledge is speculative as well. If you are really interested in transitioning from speculation to fact regarding GAD's TCU modification , call or email GAD and get the facts.

My commentary on this thread is directed primarily at North American customers. Frankly, I could not possibly care less what GAD has or has not accomplished because I live in the US and their products and technical support are unavailable here.

If you want to promote GAD, start a new thread.

Speedriven1

Here's the thing: everyone who claims they can "tune" the TCUs is still hitting a TQ limit and running 10.7-10.9 1/4 mile. I'm sure GAD knows their stuff, but even if they run a number with a stock TCU (which I think is unlikely, but I could be wrong), they still won't have the flexibility or range of control that's possible with the standalone.

Zod

Seems I hit a nerve

My knowledge is what they have shown us and frankly its impressive

Point I am trying to make is this, how is all the below possible when no one can play with the TCU?

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...lers-m157.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-goes-9-s.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-dyno-gad.html

They took a c63 blk put a 157 in it and made it AWD...
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...s-project.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/w218/5479...er-turbos.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...1-turbo-s.html

Here they made the RWD CLS a 4matic even before AMG started making them and got it all working!
https://mbworld.org/forums/w218/4938...63-4matic.html

Not 157 but still impressive
https://mbworld.org/forums/sls-amg-g...ad-motors.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/amg-gt-gt...tadore-sv.html

Their products are out there mate. If you wish to turn a blind eye and claim other wise that is not fair, since the whole point is ''what mods are good and how to get the TCU to play nice''. If you wanted to promote US only based products then you should have said so and made your affiliations more clear

I own none of their products by the way

gaspam

i think he made it clear in his first post if you read between the lines.... to the untrained eye it looked like a normal post, but look harder and you will see its an advertisement for speedriven standalone ecu


He also seems to be some biased against weistec

No mention of Weistec as a "top choice", even though they are probably 2nd most popular tune after renntech and hold MB world record 1/4 and 7 of the 10 fast 1/4 mile times on dragtimes are weistec

negative mention of weistec vs speedriven

subtle swip at weistec turbo-back dps

Speedriven1

It's possible because it's a stripped car. Less weight means you can go faster with less power/TQ. https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post5459445

Speedriven1

It's funny, because we've never discussed Weistec that I recall. But, since we're at it, they have a cast trans. pan (as far as I am aware) vs. ours being billet. Calling a billet piece better than a cast piece isn't negative unless you really think there is some kind of childish animosity between us and Weiss, and- judging from the tone of the last dozen emails I've exchanged with them- I don't think there is.

As for the standalone, Weiss, AMS, RT, etc. all know the score- and the score is 10.70-10.9 on the stock trans. with a full-weight car, and we all know that to go faster we need to build a stripped down car (as Weistec did- awesome 63, excellent track rat car) or do a standalone (which is what we're doing).

One isn't negative and the other positive, it's just a question of what you're trying to achieve with the car- and we (and, we hope, many other potential customers) want to run 9s but we want our power seats and air conditioning and our surround sound systems, too.

gaspam

I never said Speedriven said anything, I was referring to the person that i quoted (the thread starter)... interesting that you mention "we've".... are you admitting that you are behind the OP's account?

and yes i would say its negative to insinuate that with the weistec pan you just a step away from a blown tranny.... "one crack from a rock and your MCT is toast" .... unless you consider a blown tranny positive ?

BerndV

I live in Kalispell, Montana and have zero affiliation with Speedriven. I am a retired aeronautical engineer. By "we" I believe Speedriven is referring to those who have posted in this thread. I did not mention Weistec as an intentional omission, although their transmission pan, being a casting instead of billet aluminum, is metallurgically and structurally inferior. My personal experience with Weistec has been limited to repeatedly trying to get more detailed information about their W4 power package via email, for which I have been completely ignored. In contrast, I have always received very prompt, professional, and technically educational information from AMS, Renntech, and Speedriven. I have had the privilege of speaking to both Hartmut Fehly at Renntech and Marcin at Speedriven on several occasions. Those guys know more about this stuff than any of us armchair experts on Mbworld. If I am going to spend the money that performance requirements on these cars require, I certainly will not do so with a company that ignores simple email requests for information. Anecdotal reports of ignoring such informational requests from Weistech abound on Mbworld. Their products generally appear to be top notch. However, customer service, accessibility, and responsiveness is a major factor in determining to which tuners my business and money will flow. Different tuners make some products that are better than similar products from other tuners. For example, I won't buy a downpipe that does not retain the factory crossmember. There are only two replacement transmission pans available of which I am aware; the purchase decision involves weighing the pros and cons of each. I like that the Weistec pan includes magnets and outlets for an additional transmission cooler, whereas the Speedriven pan does not. I am actually having to redo the installation of my Speedriven pan to add a specific MB OE magnet (https://www.ecstuning.com/ES1780603/) that is thin enough to attach itself to the bottom of the filter and still not interfere with the filter support at the bottom of the pan. My factory magnet will not work with their pan. IMO, this magnet should have been included. However, the Speedriven pan itself is superior and adding outlets for a transmission fluid cooler would be fairly straightforward.

Speedriven1

Get over yourself, tin-hat.

Speedriven1

Neither. Marcin and I share this account. That's the "we". LOL!!

gaspam

very intelligent comeback from the guys that sold me downpipes where the o2 bungs location stretched the o2 sensors wires to the max so that when your engine torques it breaks the o2 sensors

I had to buy L-bend o2 spacers for the rear so the rear o2 wires would have enough slack in them to not pop the wires

I figured i wouldnt bring it up since i fixed it, but since you want to be a poopie doo-doo head, i will

BerndV

As the OP, I hope this thread does not devolve into a food fight.

Speedriven1

Let me get this straight: You baselessly accused me of setting up a fake account to trash-talk a company I have a good relationship with. Then I responded with a playful, impersonal post, and you think *I'M* the "doodoo head" ?? Come on, man- what was the expectation there? Did you think that was going to end well? Do you really think anyone is that stupid? It's 2016! LOL!!

Speedriven1

As the OP, I'm un-subbing.

BerndV

LOL!

gaspam

not at all how it happened... you first accused me of saying you were talking about weistec, which i never said... if you re-read my originally post you will see that i was specifically quoting and referring to the OP, not you, but you jumped in post #62 saying you never said this and that.... well no Sh*t, thats why you werent quoted in my post before that, because it was the OP that said it, thats why he was quoted and not you and then you accused me of saying YOU have something against wesitec, which again is untrue as i never said YOU said anything about weistec it was this which was the negative against weistec's pan below (again, not you, so dont know where you got that i said YOU said anything about weistec, unless you are BerndV, because only he was qouted in my original post that you jumped on)
oh ok, calling someone a "Tin-Hat" is considered impersonal? sounds like you are talking specifically to me and inferring that im crazy sounds like you are the one hearing voices as you keep hearing that I said speedriven said this and that, when I said no such thing... I did say BerndV said something about weistec.... so again are you BerndV? (insert sarcasm since you dont seem to get it), if not, then I never mentioned you (speedriven) saying anything about weistec

LFC09

oh dear

Pumpkinate

I'm dubious about the claim that turbo-back downpipes don't make much difference. Both Weistec and Kleemann sent me dyno graphs of tune vs tune plus downpipes and there was definitely a significant difference on their claimed results.

kponti

OK I'll put the turbo back crap to rest. Now if we lose this playoff match on Saturday morning, my son's 6yo basketball team will curse MB world as a result! So yall better watch out, there might be some children of the corn action on yo asses.
I'm gonna go do a dyno run this Saturday morning weather and availability permitting.