Stock vs Aftermarket Tune - 1/4 mile performance
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
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10-second E550
It's simple to integrate water/meth nozzles into the charge pipes and they already sell their pipes with the blowoff valve added... I'm not saying it doesn't make gains, but it's not ideal.
Spraying pure or 80+% meth before the turbos has substantial proven gains.
Spraying pure or 80+% meth before the turbos has substantial proven gains.
Last edited by Siegmann; Oct 26, 2019 at 08:47 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 693
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From: USA
m157 SL63
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 693
Likes: 152
From: USA
m157 SL63
The red pipes feed into the intercooler. Water/meth injection location is tricky with these engines and unfortunately spraying right before the intercooler is not ideal, because the atomized fuel/water probably doesn't exit the intercooler still as a mist after going through those narrow fins.
Are there any post-intercooler pipes able to be drilled for the nozzles?
Last edited by billvp218; Oct 29, 2019 at 04:19 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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From: Long Island ny
2007 e350 sport. 2010 350 4matic sport. Worlds first W212 E63R self built.
While doing my water pump and turbo lines. I noticed that our intercoolers aren’t even as far as cooling the charged air from the turbo. The passenger side turbo has far less space then the left side turbo. There is a split wall in between the 2 turbo pipe inlets, Inside the inter cooler. so the in coming air from the driver side turbos compressed air has a better flow and More time to remove compressed heat. Does the ecu present boost from both turbos equally or does the ecu rely on one turbo to boost more then the other. Also noticed that renntechs blow off is favoring the driver side turbo which is the side that seems to have better flow through the inter cooler. Maybe that turbo is producing more boost out of the two?. Anyone else notice this
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Joined: Oct 2019
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E63
I havent seen the inside of my intercooler, but I believe the air comes together into 1 prior to the throttle body, creating an equal boost through the system, thus needing 1 BOV.
But, the IAT is on the passenger side, just past the intercooler, so if the air from less cooled passenger side hits the sensor before mixing with driver side air, we may be seeing exaggerated IATs then what's actually hitting cylinders
But, the IAT is on the passenger side, just past the intercooler, so if the air from less cooled passenger side hits the sensor before mixing with driver side air, we may be seeing exaggerated IATs then what's actually hitting cylinders
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 769
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From: Long Island ny
2007 e350 sport. 2010 350 4matic sport. Worlds first W212 E63R self built.
Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 145
Likes: 38
2014 E63 AMG
Thanks for all the effort you've put into this Brutus, I've spent the whole morning reading through all of this. I have a 2014 E63 same colour as yours. Im from the UK but live in France, I've been in contact with Jerry and Sean and Eurocharged Houston. I'm wanting to go full E85 we have it here in France, reason being is I get a 50% discount of registering the car in france. Mine apparently has a stage 2 tune on it already when I bought it but I have no details on the tune. I know the cars seriously quick but I have nothing to compare it to. In sport mode I get this strange feeling in 3rd or 4th before it changes up were it feels like I have a trailer behind me trying to push me along. Do you know why this might be? Other than that it runs perfect and is a stock car.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 604
Likes: 581
From: Houston Tx
2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
Thanks for all the effort you've put into this Brutus, I've spent the whole morning reading through all of this. I have a 2014 E63 same colour as yours. Im from the UK but live in France, I've been in contact with Jerry and Sean and Eurocharged Houston. I'm wanting to go full E85 we have it here in France, reason being is I get a 50% discount of registering the car in france. Mine apparently has a stage 2 tune on it already when I bought it but I have no details on the tune. I know the cars seriously quick but I have nothing to compare it to. In sport mode I get this strange feeling in 3rd or 4th before it changes up were it feels like I have a trailer behind me trying to push me along. Do you know why this might be? Other than that it runs perfect and is a stock car.
I'm glad you've found benefit from the thread. Getting a 50% on registration is no joke. Congrats on that.
I've seen Jerry's car and his E85 dyno plots. I do not know if he is running the same base tune as I am. I do know he is running HF Cats while mine are stock. I run water meth for Air Charge cooling... he has the AWS cooling system which performs very well at maintaining intake temps during the run; much better than my water meth setup by the way.
Finally, I'm running the stock fuel pump while he has upgraded his to a different one. That's the secret sauce right there.
I confident in saying he has the record for horsepower on stock turbos now.
After fueling. his biggest hurdle was reigning in low end torque. The TCU management system gets a little pissy when you throw north of 800 AWTQ at it.
He has been running straight E85 for a couple of months now
If you end up running E85 you will be a terror on the highway. The top end power is unreal now.
I'm at 680AWHP now around 5500 rpm... Jerry bests me by at least 30 more WHP peak...
Regarding your transmission, have you had it re-adapted? This may help your case somewhat.
I recently did a transmission flush and software update as a preventative measure as well.
I can't say I've experienced what you are describing so i can't comment more.
If you end up getting the tune, please come back in and post up your experiences. I'd love to hear about them.
Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 145
Likes: 38
2014 E63 AMG
I've not had the transmission updated no, the transmission shield is off so I'm guessing someone has been into it before or its been knocked off. How do you update it, is it a dealer only update? Is there any chance I could pm you?
I've got quite a few questions I'd like to ask about a number of things.
Seb
I've got quite a few questions I'd like to ask about a number of things.
Seb
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 604
Likes: 581
From: Houston Tx
2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
I've not had the transmission updated no, the transmission shield is off so I'm guessing someone has been into it before or its been knocked off. How do you update it, is it a dealer only update? Is there any chance I could pm you?
I've got quite a few questions I'd like to ask about a number of things.
Seb
I've got quite a few questions I'd like to ask about a number of things.
Seb
Mine cost me $400.00 as I was out of warranty. I also received the friends and family discount though. I suggest reaching out to your local dealership service adviser to discuss.
After the update they have to drive the car for a set amount of time in varying driving conditions to re adapt the transmission. This is critical and will also add to the overall cost of the reflash.
Feel free to PM me with any questions you may have.
Brett
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 693
Likes: 152
From: USA
m157 SL63
Sebastian
I'm glad you've found benefit from the thread. Getting a 50% on registration is no joke. Congrats on that.
I've seen Jerry's car and his E85 dyno plots. I do not know if he is running the same base tune as I am. I do know he is running HF Cats while mine are stock. I run water meth for Air Charge cooling... he has the AWS cooling system which performs very well at maintaining intake temps during the run; much better than my water meth setup by the way.
Finally, I'm running the stock fuel pump while he has upgraded his to a different one. That's the secret sauce right there.
I confident in saying he has the record for horsepower on stock turbos now.
After fueling. his biggest hurdle was reigning in low end torque. The TCU management system gets a little pissy when you throw north of 800 AWTQ at it.
He has been running straight E85 for a couple of months now
If you end up running E85 you will be a terror on the highway. The top end power is unreal now.
I'm at 680AWHP now around 5500 rpm... Jerry bests me by at least 30 more WHP peak...
Regarding your transmission, have you had it re-adapted? This may help your case somewhat.
I recently did a transmission flush and software update as a preventative measure as well.
I can't say I've experienced what you are describing so i can't comment more.
If you end up getting the tune, please come back in and post up your experiences. I'd love to hear about them.
I'm glad you've found benefit from the thread. Getting a 50% on registration is no joke. Congrats on that.
I've seen Jerry's car and his E85 dyno plots. I do not know if he is running the same base tune as I am. I do know he is running HF Cats while mine are stock. I run water meth for Air Charge cooling... he has the AWS cooling system which performs very well at maintaining intake temps during the run; much better than my water meth setup by the way.
Finally, I'm running the stock fuel pump while he has upgraded his to a different one. That's the secret sauce right there.
I confident in saying he has the record for horsepower on stock turbos now.
After fueling. his biggest hurdle was reigning in low end torque. The TCU management system gets a little pissy when you throw north of 800 AWTQ at it.
He has been running straight E85 for a couple of months now
If you end up running E85 you will be a terror on the highway. The top end power is unreal now.
I'm at 680AWHP now around 5500 rpm... Jerry bests me by at least 30 more WHP peak...
Regarding your transmission, have you had it re-adapted? This may help your case somewhat.
I recently did a transmission flush and software update as a preventative measure as well.
I can't say I've experienced what you are describing so i can't comment more.
If you end up getting the tune, please come back in and post up your experiences. I'd love to hear about them.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 604
Likes: 581
From: Houston Tx
2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
Damn dyslexia.... its the AMS E63S Cooling System...
https://autotalent.com/products/ams-...752d9ca2&_ss=r
I'm not at liberty to disclose Jerrys runs, but I can tell you his IATs only increased by 10 degrees F over the course of the run, and the temps rapidly dropped back after the run. In contrast, using the water meth, my runs went from a similar resting temp and increased 26 degrees during the run... temps took longer to come down as well. This stands to reason though because I only get the cooling effect when spraying during boost. Off boost, no spray, no help with temps.
I'm giving serious consideration to augmenting my car with this kit after seeing his logs... the kit works....
https://autotalent.com/products/ams-...752d9ca2&_ss=r
I'm not at liberty to disclose Jerrys runs, but I can tell you his IATs only increased by 10 degrees F over the course of the run, and the temps rapidly dropped back after the run. In contrast, using the water meth, my runs went from a similar resting temp and increased 26 degrees during the run... temps took longer to come down as well. This stands to reason though because I only get the cooling effect when spraying during boost. Off boost, no spray, no help with temps.
I'm giving serious consideration to augmenting my car with this kit after seeing his logs... the kit works....
Last edited by brutus_tx; Nov 22, 2019 at 12:52 AM.
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 29
Likes: 4
From: Houston, TX
2015 E63 AMG S, '93 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4, '00 Dodge Durango 5.9, '72 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible
Here is the link to the AMS site:
https://amsperformance.com/cart/alph...cooler-system/
I know they've been willing to do group buys in the past, which is how I got my Audi setup.
https://amsperformance.com/cart/alph...cooler-system/
I know they've been willing to do group buys in the past, which is how I got my Audi setup.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 604
Likes: 581
From: Houston Tx
2014 AMG E63S and 2020 AMG GTC
Thank you very much for the kind words.
I'm an engineer by profession and I like documenting my progress for other peoples benefit.
I also feel there is way to much smoke and mirrors in the aftermarket world. Transparency is key with me.
We have been slowly tweaking this tune over the last year.
Jerry liked the performance so much he ended up buying a E63S of his own. He is on the same tune as me, but he is looking to additional hardware mods to truly explore the upper boundaries of these cars.
As before, I think my tune will end up being the stage 1 version of this flex tune, and for those of us who want a true E85 tune, with simple hardware mods Jerry should be able to get you there.
I'm an engineer by profession and I like documenting my progress for other peoples benefit.
I also feel there is way to much smoke and mirrors in the aftermarket world. Transparency is key with me.
We have been slowly tweaking this tune over the last year.
Jerry liked the performance so much he ended up buying a E63S of his own. He is on the same tune as me, but he is looking to additional hardware mods to truly explore the upper boundaries of these cars.
As before, I think my tune will end up being the stage 1 version of this flex tune, and for those of us who want a true E85 tune, with simple hardware mods Jerry should be able to get you there.
Look to this thread for a dyno plot of the results of Jerrys efforts to run full E85...
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-e85-tune.html
