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MB will say that 1.7-2.0 bar ( 23-28 psi) is enough pressure esp if the owners follow the oil type and viscosity requirements. 4 bar is 56 psi at high load and rpm, I would have my doubts tho' ...I know many engines ( turbo or not ) had oil pumps that ran up to 100 psi at higher rpm or at cold idle
Of course if the MB oil check valves fail then the pressure isnt maintained, oil galleries are empty at cold start and lots of really bad things happen.
I posted this as a link on a Toyota forum as I have a 2020 Highlander with a 3.5L v6 engine. It also has the oil flow solenoid and NO oil pressure sensor or sender , and just like MB no OBD2 PID to monitor pressure as there is no sensor/ sender.
Someone here mentioned that Ford and others have done the same thing. If you are on those forums, check to see if threads have benn made regarding this and if not , post up there. I wasn't joking when i said this should be investigated esp as several manufacturers have done this...With no backup way for the ecu to determine it should go to limp mode, it does it's best to promote further damage which we then pay for a new engine ( MB ) or rebuilding hoping they have competent mechanics, or just get denied saying it was neglect, was the oil, or the way the car was driven. Anyway that goes we are out C@%^ tons of time and money.
FYI 2 bar is 28 psi, 1.7 bar is 23.8 psi. I note that from the table above all the engine series have the same specs for pressure and rpm. That is interesting as that tells us it is being controlled from a table or routine that switches it at 3500 to high pressure. What is unknown is the calculation behind it. We still dont know what the cold start pressure is or should be.
We REALLY need actual oil pressure data from all series of engines AT cold start and idle, Plus Hot idle and start and finally drive mode when warmed up 1500-2500 then 3000 to 5000 rpm.
I predict we will find: cold start and idle = 4 bar for a timed interval..say 20 seconds then switches to 1.7- 2 bar. Warm idle and start 1.7-2 bar. Warm drive 1500 -2500 = 1.7-2 bar 3500 -5000 4 bar at all times
Un plugged is still unknown but I predict 4 bar at all times thus the ECU delivers optimum settings for timing, VVT, fueling and transmission settings. YMMV
Those with a tuned ECu might be able to see if the solenoid activates to the lower oil pressure setting by following the oil pressure maybe
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by WRC-LVR
I posted this as a link on a Toyota forum as I have a 2020 Highlander with a 3.5L v6 engine. It also has the oil flow solenoid and NO oil pressure sensor or sender , and just like MB no OBD2 PID to monitor pressure as there is no sensor/ sender.
Someone here mentioned that Ford and others have done the same thing. If you are on those forums, check to see if threads have benn made regarding this and if not , post up there. I wasn't joking when i said this should be investigated esp as several manufacturers have done this...With no backup way for the ecu to determine it should go to limp mode, it does it's best to promote further damage which we then pay for a new engine ( MB ) or rebuilding hoping they have competent mechanics, or just get denied saying it was neglect, was the oil, or the way the car was driven. Anyway that goes we are out C@%^ tons of time and money.
It is this point that is most troubling:
Also, remember that this is intended to save gas, nothing more. So any action against the manufacturers will likely fail as they can show the millions of miles where engines were fine.
We can always revert back to stock, but DO NOT let the dealership flash the ECU with any software or firmware updates. The tune file for the ECU is for the software the ECU is on now, hence the ECU read out we ask customers to provide. If there was any software update performed, the software the update would use would not be compatible with the software the tune was developed to perform on. Imagine how an app can crash crash on a phone after a software update b/c it is not supported on that system -- it would be similar to that!
To me, the most damage was caused by the cold start every day.
First symptom with M276/278 was chain tensioner, followed by timing gear lock pin, then timing reluctor wheel slipping >>> full timing system repair with 4 camshafts, 4 timing gears, 2 tensioners, 1 HPFP -> $10K
My bet Is that with this mod from factory, and the issue with the timing system would have been a high mileage issue, and not a TSB.
Then, the overheating of the piston skirts and you know the rest
Isnt Bosch the supplier of solenoids, ecu's and other electrical items to many manufacturers? Werent they the ones that placed a routine in VW diesel Ecus that when connected for an emissions check, sent erroneous or fake data so that they would pass with flying colours when in fact they were failing miserably?
Isnt Bosch the supplier of solenoids, ecu's and other electrical items to many manufacturers? Werent they the ones that placed a routine in VW diesel Ecus that when connected for an emissions check, sent erroneous or fake data so that they would pass with flying colours when in fact they were failing miserably?
Just saying....
my understanding is that each manufacturer customize the template given by the hardware providers, but i may be mistaken.
Each manufacturer can code whatever they feel is "smart " given a set of inputs by the sensors, and create open/closed control loops as they please.
We can always revert back to stock, but DO NOT let the dealership flash the ECU with any software or firmware updates. The tune file for the ECU is for the software the ECU is on now, hence the ECU read out we ask customers to provide. If there was any software update performed, the software the update would use would not be compatible with the software the tune was developed to perform on. Imagine how an app can crash crash on a phone after a software update b/c it is not supported on that system -- it would be similar to that!
Fair enough..however if MB does provide a fix, ( not holding my breath ) 1) can you guys actually see if the code has been changed regarding that solenoid 2) can you guys then use the updated fixsoftware to plug in your tune to?
1) most likely requires assembler expert(s) or other IT language expertise.. 2) requires expert knowledge of the tables etc and drive time in actual cars.
Will wait for an answer....
After lots of reading, I am doing this mod to both of my stock M278 engines. My 2013 E550 coupe M278 was replaced in 2019 at 45K miles due to a washed out cylinder/scoring. I was told an injector stuck open and caused it. I believe it had the silitec liners and now has the nanoslide liners. The replacement E550 M278 now has 45K on it. My 2017 S550 coupe M278 has 30K on it currently. I was wondering if the solenoid is leaking, how hard is it to replace it? I am also interested in having an oil pressure gauge setup, so I'm following for that as well.
Last edited by wheatswake; 12-27-2023 at 05:31 PM.
Drop the lower cover and look up to see the oil control solenoid. there are pics for the m278 in this thread. Any moisture might be suspect. Clean the area and put dye in the oil then drive it for a week ad check the area again. most leak check dyes will glow when a UV light is shone on the area of the leak.
Unforunately to replace the oil solenoid the pan has to be dropped.
HaHa "injector stuck open" but glad the repair was done, hopefully at MB cost. IIRc Those are piezo style injectors on the m278 . To my mind it was more likely the cylinder started slinging around siltec material that got into injector. it slung stuff due to wear from noy having enough oil coming from the piston squirters.
Check this thread for the conditions and control the ecu has over the solenoid: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...en-passed.html It also has some info re what was used to check the oil pressure SPrihadhi is the guy to PM for that
Thanks for the info on having to drop the pan to replace the solenoid. Yeah, thankfully MBUSA gave me Goodwill Assistance on the M278 replacement for $3k with a 3yr/36k warranty. I got really lucky with that being I had no warranty at the time. I have read through that thread you sent and it’s a little above my understanding but i get the jist of it. I really appreciate all the guys that figured this out because I don't want to go though another M278 replacement being I own 2 of them. I love the power of these engines and now have a little more confidence in them for the long run.
2013 E550 coupe M278 with 45k is now unplugged.
Now that I’m thinking about it, my S550 M278 w/30k miles has a CPO 2 yr unlimited miles warranty left on it. Would you unplug it before warranty is expired? It could give the dealership a way out of cylinder wall scoring warranty repair if solenoid is unplugged and scoring happens. I think they would have to prove it caused the issue per the Magnuson Moss Act. If I don’t unplug it, the solenoid could cause cylinder wall scoring. What to do?
Last edited by wheatswake; 12-27-2023 at 05:35 PM.
I posted this as a link on a Toyota forum as I have a 2020 Highlander with a 3.5L v6 engine. It also has the oil flow solenoid and NO oil pressure sensor or sender , and just like MB no OBD2 PID to monitor pressure as there is no sensor/ sender.
Someone here mentioned that Ford and others have done the same thing. If you are on those forums, check to see if threads have benn made regarding this and if not , post up there. I wasn't joking when i said this should be investigated esp as several manufacturers have done this...
With no backup way for the ecu to determine it should go to limp mode, it does it's best to promote further damage which we then pay for a new engine ( MB ) or rebuilding hoping they have competent mechanics, or just get denied saying it was neglect, was the oil, or the way the car was driven.
Anyway that goes we are out C@%^ tons of time and money.
I am glad you've posted this fix in Toyota land. You pretty much understand what we are dealing with on MB engines, right? Are you willing to be No1 pulling the plug on your Highlander ???
Toyota directly drinks the Bosch coolaid through their Denso partnership. I'll be glad to help ya make good. We want to identify the element in their implementation (pressures, switch points, control style, failsafe) and associated driveability issues with poor throttle control and damaged cylinders.
Help to assess compatibility:
- 1- Test that inactive control returns to default/high pressure.
- 2 - Test that active control provides low oiling.
- 3 - Check the software behaviors in regard to RPM plus random oiling based on computed load factors.
Toyota engineers may have improved the oiling design for engine reliability.
I've been saying all along that the German automotive industry caters to develop a leading Asian market. That's a perfect example of how we're all in the same boat.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 12-27-2023 at 07:12 PM.
Shout out to folks who contribute to this topic. I pulled off the plug today on my M157( 2015 S63 Coupe).
Pro: I can confirm the throttle response at 800-1500 rpm is much better. The power comes more directly. I usually have a little hesitation around 1200rpm, just feels like the gas paddle is mushy, but now it's gone.
Con: The P06DA00 Code does throw the CEL in my dash. Which is extremely annoying. If I cleared the codes and turn on the engine, the CEL won't show up. But once I restart the engine, the CEL will pop back on.
So I will have to clear the codes every time before ignition, otherwise, I will have to tolerate the orange light......
Also, I did find oil stains in the plug, the same situation as the cam position sensor. Makes me think how many sensors in M157 are leaking. I replaced all 4 CPS and 4 timing magnets and thought I was bullet proof. But now I'm having a second thought
Shout out to folks who contribute to this topic. I pulled off the plug today on my M157( 2015 S63 Coupe).
Pro: I can confirm the throttle response at 800-1500 rpm is much better. The power comes more directly. I usually have a little hesitation around 1200rpm, just feels like the gas paddle is mushy, but now it's gone.
Con: The P06DA00 Code does throw the CEL in my dash. Which is extremely annoying. If I cleared the codes and turn on the engine, the CEL won't show up. But once I restart the engine, the CEL will pop back on.
So I will have to clear the codes every time before ignition, otherwise, I will have to tolerate the orange light......
2015 S63 coupe --- interesting -- thanks for feedback
@CaliBenzDriver
is there a way to add a resistor across the positive and negative terminals of the solenoid plug to trick the ecu into thinking the solenoid is plugged in and functional? To avoid a CEL for some folks
2015 S63 coupe --- interesting -- thanks for feedback
@CaliBenzDriver
is there a way to add a resistor across the positive and negative terminals of the solenoid plug to trick the ecu into thinking the solenoid is plugged in and functional?
To avoid a CEL for some folks
Yes, use a dummy load so ECU ligic is satisfied with expected current range in use (above Min and less than Max).
For our purpose we'd rather be near the low power limit than the opposite. Never mind the middle, here we are interested by low power load.
Let say 400mA under 13V is a 33R load that must handle 7Watts ... hot!
Then the best solution is to use a light bulb as equivalent load...
Go ahead and experiment with a type #194 or a bit larger side marker.
Make your own plugin dummy harness: "pigtail connector + small bulb load" with a $2 bulb socket from AutoZone.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 12-27-2023 at 07:38 PM.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
Yes, use a dummy load so ECU sees expected current is used.
For that purpose we'd rather be near the low power limit than the opposite.
Let say 400mA under 13V is a 33R load that must handle 7Watts ... hot!
Then the best solution is to use a light bulb as equivalent load...
Go ahead and experiment with a type #194 or a bit larger side marker.
Make your own plugin dummy harness: "pigtail connector + small bulb load" with a $2 bulb socket from AutoZone.
If
then I calculate the Power to be 13V x 0.4A = 5.2W. Or has the world changed in the 45 years since I studied EE? Just asking.
A bigger resistor will reduce the current. Is 400mA the ideal or can we go with less? Less current will produce less wattage. Less wattage will produce less power (and heat). Is my math wrong? It's been a while and I seldom remember what I had for dinner yesterday.
then I calculate the Power to be 13V x 0.4A = 5.2W. Or has the world changed in the 45 years since I studied EE? Just asking.
A bigger resistor will reduce the current. Is 400mA the ideal or can we go with less? Less current will produce less wattage. Less wattage will produce less power (and heat). Is my math wrong? It's been a while and I seldom remember what I had for dinner yesterday.
JR, we need to allow a margin not to be up against max. power... super hot BBQ .
Go ahead experiment with spares you find laying around in your project drawer.
This just needs to be convenient within expectations. Even the coil from a used relay would do well.
++++ BRAKES!
Lately my brake pedal has become as touchy as the accelerator and for some reason the steering wheel has grown super sharp out of the blue without any part. I drove 250Mi yesterday, it was a real pleasure to handle at highway speeds.
I have a pair of brand new stab links I was going to install but now this will wait. The minimal floating is now history. The difference is hard to describe. I've had this very car unstable before, now it is razor sharp. This a new to me class of driveability bug.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 12-27-2023 at 09:39 PM.
You need to allow a margin not to be up against max. power... super hot.
Go ahead experiment with spares you find laying around in your project drawer.
This just needs to be convenient within expectations. Even the coil from a used relay would do well.
++++ BRAKES!
Lately my brake pedal has become as touchy as the accelerator and for some reason the steering wheel has grown super sharp out of the blue without any part. I drove 250Mi yesterday, it was a real pleasure to handle at highway speeds.
I have a pair of brand new stab links I was going to install but now this will wait.
Thanks for the idea. Just curious, how can we figure out the actual power draw of this solenoid? I could just buy some resistors with heat dissipation cover. But it would be really helpful to know how many ohms is best to buy
12-27-2023, 12:12 PM
so can we confirm that this harness with use to plug each end of the one we unplug . Cut this in half and plug into each side?
... hot!
