I have a 2010 E63 AMG (6.2 M156 motor) with the MCT. I recently bought it back in October last year (2024) with around 85000 miles. It had pretty decent service history but not extensive.
I've always noticed this sensation of it lurching a bit somewhat sporadically. It could also be described as throttle hesitation. Initially I thought this was just a characteristic of the AMG tuned MCT and it was just unhappy at low speed stop and go city driving, but I'm thinking it's more than that as it seems to have gotten worse. That or I've just become more attuned to it.
To be clear, this mostly happens in lower RPM ranges at steady throttle. Especially when going slow speeds at a steady incline. It also seems to happen more once the engine is fully warmed up (oil temp no longer flashing in the gauge cluster AMG screen). When it happens, I also notice a low frequency vibration noise around the drivetrain and rear. There is no RPM hike or drop when it happens.
I've already ruled out a few things through work I've done myself:
- Replaced all spark plugs, coil packs, fuel injectors OEM (I did have some misfires before, which I no longer have)
- Yes I also reset and relearned the fuel trims, they are within spec
- Replaced throttle pedal
- Cleaned MAF sensors (They were already very clean with newer date codes than my car, 2014 and 2015)
- Note: I also tried driving with them unplugged and had the same issue
- Upstream O2 voltages are within spec
Other work that has recently been done:
- Both batteries replaced - OEM
- Head bolts - OEM revised
- Full transmission service with TCU reset and readaptation
- Idler pulley
- Intake manifold resealed (new gasket)
- Camshaft adjusters rebuilt (63 motorsports)
- Camshaft lifters / tappets
- Valve cover gaskets
- Crankcase vent valve
- Rear driveshaft Flex Joint
The other work was mostly done by a local indy Mercedes specialist in my area (western Washington state). He also pointed out my engine mounts were due to be replaced soon, but weren't collapsed or anything. I've new ones on order from Creative Steel.
I've seen some people mention similar behavior and say that this is just how this car is. I think that might be more around jerky transmission shifts occasionally, which I'm fine with. This isn't shifting though. The car shouldn't be bucking while cruising at 35 or 60 mph.
Any help or things to look into would be greatly appreciated. 🙏🏻 Hoping to not need to take this to the dealer for diagnostic.
A local Merc indy used xentry to reset the TCU and adaptations. Xentry wasn't used to do the adaptation itself. I've driven it around 1300 miles of mixed driving conditions since then.
I have a 2010 E63 AMG (6.2 M156 motor) with the MCT. I recently bought it back in October last year (2024) with around 85000 miles. It had pretty decent service history but not extensive.
I've always noticed this sensation of it lurching a bit somewhat sporadically. It could also be described as throttle hesitation. Initially I thought this was just a characteristic of the AMG tuned MCT and it was just unhappy at low speed stop and go city driving, but I'm thinking it's more than that as it seems to have gotten worse. That or I've just become more attuned to it.
To be clear, this mostly happens in lower RPM ranges at steady throttle. Especially when going slow speeds at a steady incline. It also seems to happen more once the engine is fully warmed up (oil temp no longer flashing in the gauge cluster AMG screen). When it happens, I also notice a low frequency vibration noise around the drivetrain and rear. There is no RPM hike or drop when it happens.
I've already ruled out a few things through work I've done myself:
- Replaced all spark plugs, coil packs, fuel injectors OEM (I did have some misfires before, which I no longer have)
- Yes I also reset and relearned the fuel trims, they are within spec
- Replaced throttle pedal
- Cleaned MAF sensors (They were already very clean with newer date codes than my car, 2014 and 2015)
- Note: I also tried driving with them unplugged and had the same issue
- Upstream O2 voltages are within spec
Other work that has recently been done:
- Both batteries replaced - OEM
- Head bolts - OEM revised
- Full transmission service with TCU reset and readaptation
- Idler pulley
- Intake manifold resealed (new gasket)
- Camshaft adjusters rebuilt (63 motorsports)
- Camshaft lifters / tappets
- Valve cover gaskets
- Crankcase vent valve
- Rear driveshaft Flex Joint
The other work was mostly done by a local indy Mercedes specialist in my area (western Washington state). He also pointed out my engine mounts were due to be replaced soon, but weren't collapsed or anything. I've new ones on order from Creative Steel.
I've seen some people mention similar behavior and say that this is just how this car is. I think that might be more around jerky transmission shifts occasionally, which I'm fine with. This isn't shifting though. The car shouldn't be bucking while cruising at 35 or 60 mph.
Any help or things to look into would be greatly appreciated. 🙏🏻 Hoping to not need to take this to the dealer for diagnostic.
From your detailed account, you are dealing with an issue at "normal driving Rpm" ie. throttle up to 2500.Rpm involving speeds from pickup to cruising.
Nothing too demanding, just normal driveability range.
-- The engine is noticeably bucking and that has you concerned.
-- You have done your due diligence with maintenance to regain reliable ignition and best possible trims.
-- At that point you're very close to mint stock.
Congratulations for getting a clean slate. Your system should respond well to debugging.
Many ppl complain about MCT not recognizing the issue is the same at 60.mph.
It's the engine that's responsible for scrambling the tranny learning conditions.
I am not sure if your 2010 M156 has a dual-rate oil pump nor has variable camshaft timings??
If yes I've got a simple fix to let your engine perform best right from 900.Rpm.
Currently your throttle response has a lot of room for improvement below 2500Rpm.
I bet you find it uneasy to match speed within traffic.
With pressure sensitive response the stock throttle has perfect engine control.
The powertrain hesitations are caused by poor throttle plate control. The whole range below 2500.Rpm is a difficult mine-field for ECU to manage combustion.
From your description, you are dealing with a driveability issue at "normal driving Rpm" ie. throttle up to 2500.Rpm involving speeds from pickup to cruising. Nothing too demanding.
-- The engine is noticeably bucking and that has you concerned.
-- You have done your due diligence with maintenance for reliable ignition and best possible trims.
-- At that point you're near mint stock.
Congratulations for getting a clean slate. Your system will respond to debugging.
Many ppl complain about MCT not recognizing the issue is the same at 60.mph. It's the engine that's responsible for messing with tranny!
I don't know if your 2010 M156 has a dual-rate oil pump or has variable camshaft timing?
If yes I've got a simple fix to let your engine perform normally from 900.Rpm. Right now your throttle response has lots of room for improvement below 2500Rpm.
I bet you find it uneasy to match speed within traffic. With pressure sensitive response the stock throttle has perfect engine control.
From what I can tell, no dual-rate oil pump, but yes it has VVT.
From what I can tell, no dual-rate oil pump, but yes it has VVT.
With legacy oil pump, VVT don't get surged out of position.
With dual-rate pump solenoid, it screws up VVT position to corrupt fuel map below 2500.Rpm. Exactly the hesitations you are reporting.
This experimental fix can replace spongy throttle with strong pressure sensitive stock throttle. Engine needs stable oil pressure to position VVT reliably.
With legacy oil pump, VVT don't get surged out of position.
With dual-rate pump solenoid, it screws up VVT position to corrupt fuel map below 2500.Rpm. Exactly the hesitations you are reporting.
This experimental fix can replace spongy throttle with strong pressure sensitive stock throttle. Engine needs stable oil pressure to position VVT reliably.
The lurching also isn’t only below 2500. Plus, no dual-rate pump so it seems this wouldn’t apply here. Appreciate the suggestion though!
the devil in the details...
I think you've got one.
Actually yeah it seems you’re right. I must’ve misread earlier. Came across this thread that seems to confirm also. (Edit: maybe not actually… this says 2011 and later) https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...solenoids.html
So what are you suggesting is the fix? Also if it was just normal behavior, I’d think it’d be more well documented.
Actually yeah it seems you’re right. I must’ve misread earlier. Came across this thread that seems to confirm also. (Edit: maybe not actually… this says 2011 and later) https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...solenoids.html
So what are you suggesting is the fix? Also if it was just normal behavior, I’d think it’d be more well documented.
Normal driveability performance is: enabled by 5W-50 pressure for precise VVT's disabled by low oil pressure surging VVT's in-between for greater than stock results
Normal driveability performance is: enabled by 5W-50 pressure for precise VVT's disabled by low oil pressure surging VVT's in-between for greater than stock results
Okay so I see some people suggest just unplugging the solenoid but I'm still not able to confirm the 2 stage oil pump was on the M156 engines. The thread mentions engines past 2011. The resources I've seen so far only reference M157 engines or other.
Okay so I see some people suggest just unplugging the solenoid but I'm still not able to confirm the 2 stage oil pump was on the M156 engines. The thread mentions 2011. The resources I've seen so far on reference M157 engines.
the devil in the details...
I think you've got one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by W205C43PFL
I dont like AI : ( but if it works for others by all means : )
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
AI has no human intelligence, it's really good at compiling stacks of references.
We still need subject intelligence. Today a lot of ppl still trust liar-gauge: temps are normal!!?
This is the problem with AI, especially the one in charge of google search, the answers are usually misleading and questionable. The sources it linked has nothing to do with what it is actually being said.
For those who do not want to see the AI results, once done searching, click the "web" search results instead of "all" Another thing is, for those who use google search in their browser address bar, type what you want to search then at the end add the "-AI" operator without the quotation marks to skip AI results from being displayed.
It looks like MY'2010 pp may not have solenoid,
It did later, that's what got AI lost.
Blame regulations for the addition of it : (
Always curious with an engine with 0 miles and never had a limit of oil pressure versus same 0 miles engine that had this solenoid, how is the condition after say 100,000 miles?
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
