Misfires and a CEL... Apparently a known issue
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
Likes: 13
2007 S65 AMG
Misfires and a CEL... Apparently a known issue
Car jolted pretty hard today and a CEL soon followed. Brought to dealer for scan. Said there was a string of new 63 cars coming in with same issue.
- Engines are misfiring
- Several different models w 63 motors have been coming in
- They have no fix
- Said they need to keep car for 2-3 weeks to run tests
- have tried several different things on other problem cars, don’t know what’s causing it or how to fix it yet.
No idea if others have gotten this or how many are about to. Will keep you updated.
- Engines are misfiring
- Several different models w 63 motors have been coming in
- They have no fix
- Said they need to keep car for 2-3 weeks to run tests
- have tried several different things on other problem cars, don’t know what’s causing it or how to fix it yet.
No idea if others have gotten this or how many are about to. Will keep you updated.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,830
Likes: 772
From: Venice Florida
2018 S560
I know there was module that was bad in some of the earlier cars, can't remember the name of it now, maybe someone else can who has had this issue, I heard of a few cars on these forums that had same issue. Wow, does not sound like a very reassuring dealership, crazy.....
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,037
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From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
There are issues with misfires on the new 63 engines, i've had several, in S class and GT vehicles, with rough idle/misfire/CEL complaints. There are bulletins out with things to check and steps to take, but they usually direct us to open an engineering case and last I checked, they don't have a real resolution. I had one that I changed 4 injectors in after being told to, on a car with 900 miles, and it seemed to get better, but when it came in for some unrelated work at 2500 miles, I still feel it rough. It's not enough that the customer complains but I feel there is a software issue that they haven't addressed yet.
FWIW, the injectors on the 177/178 engines, even in AMG trim, are the same as the basic injectors in all the other engines, from the 276 up to the new 156 inline 6 engines. I though they would be larger, but they aren't.
FWIW, the injectors on the 177/178 engines, even in AMG trim, are the same as the basic injectors in all the other engines, from the 276 up to the new 156 inline 6 engines. I though they would be larger, but they aren't.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
Likes: 13
2007 S65 AMG
There are issues with misfires on the new 63 engines, i've had several, in S class and GT vehicles, with rough idle/misfire/CEL complaints. There are bulletins out with things to check and steps to take, but they usually direct us to open an engineering case and last I checked, they don't have a real resolution. I had one that I changed 4 injectors in after being told to, on a car with 900 miles, and it seemed to get better, but when it came in for some unrelated work at 2500 miles, I still feel it rough. It's not enough that the customer complains but I feel there is a software issue that they haven't addressed yet.
FWIW, the injectors on the 177/178 engines, even in AMG trim, are the same as the basic injectors in all the other engines, from the 276 up to the new 156 inline 6 engines. I though they would be larger, but they aren't.
FWIW, the injectors on the 177/178 engines, even in AMG trim, are the same as the basic injectors in all the other engines, from the 276 up to the new 156 inline 6 engines. I though they would be larger, but they aren't.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,830
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From: Venice Florida
2018 S560
How in the hell can the dealer say something so negative, I don't believe it, I'd go to another dealer. They have all kinds of high end diagnostics these days and should be able to figure it out in a day or less, makes no sense. There's gotta be a code or something that leads them in the right direction towards solving the problem, they should need the car for 3 or 4 weeks, thats just crazy.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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2007 S65 AMG
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Venice Florida
2018 S560
Yes, its right on the sticker on the door on the right side as you open it, it should say 06/17 or something like that in that format. It sounds like maybe you got a car that sat around a lot at the port, maybe that has something to do with the issue. It's a black sticker with white lettering and says passenger car at the top. Just looked at mine, 09/17
Last edited by 2012 merc amg; Jun 5, 2018 at 09:04 PM.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2015
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From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
How in the hell can the dealer say something so negative, I don't believe it, I'd go to another dealer. They have all kinds of high end diagnostics these days and should be able to figure it out in a day or less, makes no sense. There's gotta be a code or something that leads them in the right direction towards solving the problem, they should need the car for 3 or 4 weeks, thats just crazy.
What about when the car noticeably shakes, and sets fault counters for misfires, yet has no codes? MB wants you to tell the customer it's normal, but not every car does it. Then they release an LI addressing it, saying they know of the problem, engineering is working on it. In the mean time, we are given no direction to go in, if we attempt an unsuccessful repair, the customer will be more upset and the dealership suffers from comeback repairs, lowers our FFV (fixed first visit) scores. If we put parts on the car without proper diagnostics, they will debit the dealership and not pay the warranty claim.
They've even gone so far as to remove the electronic compression test function for AMG engines only from the Xentry systems. We can run them on any regular car, but not the AMG engines, only manual compression tests are allowed. So, as a start, on a brand new car, you are pulling coils and plugs (which are buried, requires removing the intercooler reservoir and M/E plus a multitude of brackets on the S63), to do a mechanical compression test (always perfect), and then the new spark plugs that you have to replace every time, are on backorder (seriously, spark plugs, took a week or more to get for me on multiple occasions). If you don't replace the plugs, boom, incorrect job done, nobody gets paid. So, the cars wait until further instructions and parts are available. It's sad, but there are so many techs out there that can't fix cars, that the engineering department has taken the real diag tools away from us. So little of the information that's actually there is accessible to us in the shops, the first step is pull a control unit log and EEPROM data and send it to engineering, where they can actually look at everything and see what's wrong. It's not as easy as customer think, or as it should be.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,830
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From: Venice Florida
2018 S560
You'd think, right?
What about when the car noticeably shakes, and sets fault counters for misfires, yet has no codes? MB wants you to tell the customer it's normal, but not every car does it. Then they release an LI addressing it, saying they know of the problem, engineering is working on it. In the mean time, we are given no direction to go in, if we attempt an unsuccessful repair, the customer will be more upset and the dealership suffers from comeback repairs, lowers our FFV (fixed first visit) scores. If we put parts on the car without proper diagnostics, they will debit the dealership and not pay the warranty claim.
They've even gone so far as to remove the electronic compression test function for AMG engines only from the Xentry systems. We can run them on any regular car, but not the AMG engines, only manual compression tests are allowed. So, as a start, on a brand new car, you are pulling coils and plugs (which are buried, requires removing the intercooler reservoir and M/E plus a multitude of brackets on the S63), to do a mechanical compression test (always perfect), and then the new spark plugs that you have to replace every time, are on backorder (seriously, spark plugs, took a week or more to get for me on multiple occasions). If you don't replace the plugs, boom, incorrect job done, nobody gets paid. So, the cars wait until further instructions and parts are available. It's sad, but there are so many techs out there that can't fix cars, that the engineering department has taken the real diag tools away from us. So little of the information that's actually there is accessible to us in the shops, the first step is pull a control unit log and EEPROM data and send it to engineering, where they can actually look at everything and see what's wrong. It's not as easy as customer think, or as it should be.
What about when the car noticeably shakes, and sets fault counters for misfires, yet has no codes? MB wants you to tell the customer it's normal, but not every car does it. Then they release an LI addressing it, saying they know of the problem, engineering is working on it. In the mean time, we are given no direction to go in, if we attempt an unsuccessful repair, the customer will be more upset and the dealership suffers from comeback repairs, lowers our FFV (fixed first visit) scores. If we put parts on the car without proper diagnostics, they will debit the dealership and not pay the warranty claim.
They've even gone so far as to remove the electronic compression test function for AMG engines only from the Xentry systems. We can run them on any regular car, but not the AMG engines, only manual compression tests are allowed. So, as a start, on a brand new car, you are pulling coils and plugs (which are buried, requires removing the intercooler reservoir and M/E plus a multitude of brackets on the S63), to do a mechanical compression test (always perfect), and then the new spark plugs that you have to replace every time, are on backorder (seriously, spark plugs, took a week or more to get for me on multiple occasions). If you don't replace the plugs, boom, incorrect job done, nobody gets paid. So, the cars wait until further instructions and parts are available. It's sad, but there are so many techs out there that can't fix cars, that the engineering department has taken the real diag tools away from us. So little of the information that's actually there is accessible to us in the shops, the first step is pull a control unit log and EEPROM data and send it to engineering, where they can actually look at everything and see what's wrong. It's not as easy as customer think, or as it should be.
Newbie
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3
Likes: 2
E350, C300
misfire CEL
Same problem with an early 17 build E63s, random misfires reset by turning ignition off and restarting, not always recorded as a fault code. Car spent over 8 weeks at the dealer trying to diagnose the problem, replaced and rotated injectors and coils, requiring a lot of work removing looms and engine parts to access the injectors. Returned car to MB and was replaced with a new model year 18 car. So far new car appears excellent, no misfires and other the problem, according to MB “ inherent in the design of high spec cars” of front tire “crabbing” at full lock and low speed is now non existent even in temperatures as low as 4 deg c.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
Likes: 13
2007 S65 AMG
So far reading through this thread has only dissolved any hope that the issue will be resolved quickly. After already having two brand new AMGs fail and be returned, I don’t have it in me to stick around for a third. This may be my last Mercedes. If the C7/C8 RS6 Avant was available in the US I would be handing in my E63 keys right now.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 551
Likes: 160
From: NYC area
2019 E63S wagon; 2016 Landrover Landmark
So far reading through this thread has only dissolved any hope that the issue will be resolved quickly. After already having two brand new AMGs fail and be returned, I don’t have it in me to stick around for a third. This may be my last Mercedes. If the C7/C8 RS6 Avant was available in the US I would be handing in my E63 keys right now.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
Likes: 13
2007 S65 AMG
- Popping sound from suspension was fixed quickly by tightening up rear swaybars.
Lemoning a car isn’t a quick or easy process. I’ve gone through it before w Merc a couple times, not a fun process. Not to mention I freakin love this wagon...
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
Likes: 13
2007 S65 AMG
Yes, its right on the sticker on the door on the right side as you open it, it should say 06/17 or something like that in that format. It sounds like maybe you got a car that sat around a lot at the port, maybe that has something to do with the issue. It's a black sticker with white lettering and says passenger car at the top. Just looked at mine, 09/17
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 810
Likes: 182
From: Laguna Niguel
'94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,'09SL600 all sold, ‘15 S65,‘18 E63S,'17 SL65, '17S65Cab
Ours had these issues with misfires etc, etc. It usually ran fine. I drove it around for a couple of weeks then took it to the dealer. It took the techs about a day to find the problem. It was a crack along the seam of the left hand intake manifold. It was apparently not bonded correctly during manufacture. The crack is not visible, the tech found it by doing a smoke test on the intake system.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
Likes: 13
2007 S65 AMG
Ours had these issues with misfires etc, etc. It usually ran fine. I drove it around for a couple of weeks then took it to the dealer. It took the techs about a day to find the problem. It was a crack along the seam of the left hand intake manifold. It was apparently not bonded correctly during manufacture. The crack is not visible, the tech found it by doing a smoke test on the intake system.
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 810
Likes: 182
From: Laguna Niguel
'94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,'09SL600 all sold, ‘15 S65,‘18 E63S,'17 SL65, '17S65Cab
The actual repair time was 3 days. The book was supposedly 2 days but the dealer spent time documenting the process and training some additional techs on how to do the manifold replacement. The car was at the dealer about 8 days for several reasons, the main constraint was there were no replacement manifolds in the US. This was 3 months ago, no further issues with the car. The dealer took good care of us.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
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2007 S65 AMG
The actual repair time was 3 days. The book was supposedly 2 days but the dealer spent time documenting the process and training some additional techs on how to do the manifold replacement. The car was at the dealer about 8 days for several reasons, the main constraint was there were no replacement manifolds in the US. This was 3 months ago, no further issues with the car. The dealer took good care of us.
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 810
Likes: 182
From: Laguna Niguel
'94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,'09SL600 all sold, ‘15 S65,‘18 E63S,'17 SL65, '17S65Cab
2018 E63S, I think the build date was in July. When I took this in for repair in early March MB said this was the first time they had seen this failure. I wanted the old manifold for a souveneer but it was sent back to Germany for analysis. It was interesting how much the ECM could compensate for the additional air in leakage during moderate driving. Full throttle put it immediately into limp mode, but it took a week for the CEL to come on. As the crack widenened it affected idle and part throttle performance and quality.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 282
Likes: 56
From: Brampton, Canada
2015 Toyota Corolla LE
I have a buddy with a 2017 C63 AMG - been to the dealer three times for the same issue : cylinders 5 and 6 misfire.
First time they changed the coil packs, second time changed the spark plugs, and third time they changed the injectors.
I dont know if this helps, but perhaps have them change all three things in 1 shot, rather than going back and forth.
First time they changed the coil packs, second time changed the spark plugs, and third time they changed the injectors.
I dont know if this helps, but perhaps have them change all three things in 1 shot, rather than going back and forth.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
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2007 S65 AMG
I personally don’t have much to add yet. My dealership wanted the car for 3 weeks to run diagnostics, forward data to Mercedes and wait to see what they suggested. I literally had a car full of video equipment on my way to a shoot so they said they could clear the code and see how long until it came back. Almost 2 weeks, still hasnt come back. It will, I’m sure it’s just a matter of time. When it does, I’ll be dropping off the car. Driving normally in the meantime.
Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 97
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2017 E63S (due in May), 2013 GTR, 2013 Exige S
Electronic rear axle differential lock incoporateive
active brake assist functions limited
traction control off + inoperative
engine light comes on
I have had the above messages came on 4 to 5 times, usually during aggressive driving, it was like the electronics couldn't keep up with what was going on or something and these lights came on, then u couldn't even accelerate and was forced to roll to a complete stop. Switched off and re-started engine at once, then engine light was still on but u could drive it like normal. Then the next day, started engine and no more lights came on, everything was back to normal.
active brake assist functions limited
traction control off + inoperative
engine light comes on
I have had the above messages came on 4 to 5 times, usually during aggressive driving, it was like the electronics couldn't keep up with what was going on or something and these lights came on, then u couldn't even accelerate and was forced to roll to a complete stop. Switched off and re-started engine at once, then engine light was still on but u could drive it like normal. Then the next day, started engine and no more lights came on, everything was back to normal.
