squid23

Since it seems to be the same cylinders (1 and 6) for several people I suspect that this might have to do with an electrostatic issue with the wiring to those cylinders. If you lay down wires inside metal casings you always end up with an interesting set of physical properties that modify the shape of impulses on those wires.

As far as the injectors go, following BMW's previous mess with the N63 I learned that there can be a dozen variants of the same injectors that are just so slightly different (and as ItalianJoe1 said above, you tell the computer which variant you have). In the N63 case BMW threw out the entire injection architecture with the N63TU, which is incompatible parts-wise. I bet that Mercedes uses different injectors in Europe and North America.

In turbo cars you could assume that the heat distribution could mess up specific cylinders, but this happens on cold engine, so no.

Which physical position do cylinders 1 and 6 sit in wrt front/back/left/right?

squid23

Re the BMWs: I think the point about this thread is that MB can't fix the issue. A few day-1 bad cars are a different thing. The Panamera above is a hybrid.

squid23

Say what? What do they expect leasers to do when they have to get out, e.g. moving to a different country or losing their job?

HBerman

The CEL was reset several days ago, but came back on within 48 hours. Occasionally the engine will startup vibrating with limited power, but restarting the engine always seems to "fix" the issue for that start. I've contacted MBUSA and expressed my displeasure at the lack of a "fix" (software or otherwise) for a problem that has been reported by various people since July, 2018. The dealer, of course, wants the car into the shop for diagnostic purposes (for at least 1 week), but can offer no solution at this time. I don't think that this is a wiring issue. More likely it is a pressure issue with the injector pumps on either side of the engine (cylinders 1 and 6 are on opposite sides). I'm hoping that there might be an experimental software correction in the near future. Otherwise, this car is heading to the "buy back ranch". Disappointing for certain.

ItalianJoe1

No, the entry point on the rails doesn't put #6 at the end from the pump, if it was the case you'd have it on both front cyls. Besides, fluid dynamics don't agree with only one cyl not receiving enough flow/pressure in such a small space with such a high pressure. All the fault codes do not show dropping fuel pressure, that's a well known issue on the 271 engine but has been largely absent on the 276/28 and 274, or the new engines.

HBerman

OK, so what is the latest theory?

V70cat

HBerman

Interesting. What was the mileage on your vehicle when the CEL first happened?

V70cat

HBerman

Thanks. My issue started at 7699 miles and continues. I've seen other postings with mileage around the number or exceeding that. I would assume that a CEL issue at 700 miles would be an initial parts failure. Something that shows up at 7000+ miles might be a design flaw in which case numerous failures could be expected as the cars age in use. I'm still in the camp of a software issue because when the car is restarted, the engine runs normally. That doesn't sound like a parts issue to me.

V70cat

Wolfman

I think the point is that owners are frustrated because of slow timing and lack of feedback from MB. Without sufficient information, everything else is conjecture. Neither you or I have enough information to make these statements.

Unless somebody starts a list with VIN numbers and build dates, these threads doesn't deliver any indication of a broader issue. Does it impact 50 cars? 500? Nobody knows.

This is nothing like BMW's engine issues with carbon build-up and stretched timing chains. It seems more like the F90 early recall that required a software update where engines would shut down anywhere between the day of delivery to 1000 miles.
At Bimmerpost forum, people reported their car information and it was easy to see just how pervasive the issue was in terms of volume. BMW was on the ball and addressed the issue quickly but I think it was likely easier to fix if every car fails than just a certain percentage...

ItalianJoe1

Strictly my personal opinion here:

I think it's a software logic issue that makes misfire detection too sensitive. When the car sees a cylinder not firing properly it shuts it down to prevent catalyst damage and triggers the light. This is why some people feel shaking and rough running that goes away after a restart, others don't feel it just get a CEL, it's all about frequency of the misfire faults. You can watch the misfire counter of a running engine and see them pop up randomly around the engine, mostly during very light throttle, slow speed, parking lot style driving. I believe they have the injection pulses so small at those times, in some situations the cyl barely fires and the M/E registers it as a misfire even though it's not. The fact that most of the cars that have had injectors replaced got "better" makes me think it's a stack up of tolerances, as each injector has a coding # on it and we have to perform programming for injector quantity adjustment whenever we replace one, they are supposedly very accurate. They can be activated for just a couple mS, multiple times per piston stroke and DI motors only inject during the late intake/compression stroke, so you have a very small window. I feel, if they could back down the misfire detection logic to be slightly less sensitive, or at least in the conditions when it seems to happen (haven't seen any issues at full throttle or during aggressive driving that would indicate a mechanical problem), it would be fixed.

The engineering TIPS document I posted and some of the other tech topics I've seen make it seem as if every car with misfires has an air leak somewhere. I just can't believe, especially on a system with no MAF using only a SD based tuning logic, that the car can't handle the tiniest leak at a V band clamp or something and it sets misfire codes and acts up like that. Until they revise the docs and tell us what they've decided to do to fix all the cars, I don't know what else to say. As techs, we are limited in our ability to even see the data, much less understand it. We just want to fix the cars and keep the customers happy. Daimler and AMG aren't making it easy at the moment.

HBerman

My E63S is less than 1 year old and is exhibiting a CEL. Fortunately, the technician was able to clear the CEL before he ran the NC inspection test and the car passed. The CEL went on again the next day. I'm assuming that AMG and MB are working on a permanent fix, but my SA has not informed me that there is a specific solution for correction. Until then, I drive around with the CEL.

V70cat

HBerman

What he did was to clear the codes in the ME. The light went off when I restarted the engine before I got to the dealer. NC law is the same as NYS for the CEL to he off for at least 24 hours.

HBerman

Has anyone with the CEL issue received further information regarding a "fix"? My SA reset the CEL again with the OBD2 Scanner and told me to keep the ECO-Start disabled. Thus far, the CEL has not come on in the past week. Is there a connection?

V70cat

E634Me

V70cat

So has MB solved the issue by changing the fuel injectors?

Audiodog

Mine has been fine since it was "fixed" with 3 new injectors (not all of them). Fingers crossed.

HBerman

Which injectors? Cylinders 1, 6 and another.? Most of the CEL reports have cylinders 1and 6 as the reported misfires. I had my CEL reset a week ago, not using Eco--start, and thus far it's been ok. I am still convinced that it is a software glitch.

V70cat

2012 merc amg

PeterUbers