v6killa

Has anyone ever thought about porting there supercharger or do you know anyone who has. i was looking at stiegemeier which they specialize in porting eatons but they only talk about svt cobras and lightenings on there website. if im correct the c230 comes with a eaton M45 or something like that do you think that they would still be able to port it and if so how much horse power do you like you could gain or would it be hazards to the car?

Outland

There's a good chance it won't do anything, or could cause a loss of power if its not done right. If youre going to port it, get it done by someone who actually has done it, and can point to a dyno to prove it. Otherwise, stick with what currently works.

HoustonC230

You're going into uncharted waters here. There's been someone with an SLK on another board (not sure if he's on here) that had his TB done - that gave him improvements. He was considering getting the S/C done as well, but not sure if he did or not.

Other cars w/eatons have shown decent increases with the ported S/C. I don't know of anyone who's done it on the M271 or M111 though. If you do it, go to a shop that does the eatons on a regular basis - and understands what needs to be done. It may or may not make gains.

I say find someone who knows the ins and outs of porting the S/C - and talk to them. If they think it would be worth a shot - go for it, and get before/after dyno's.

Outland says "stick with what currently works," but I think it'd be worth looking in to this more. Take a chance, be the guinea pig! We're not going to get any more upgrades if no one is willing to "be the first one."

Sauceboy01

DO IT, DO IT!

w203

I remember awhile back, someone was selling their ported stock supercharger on ebay. They claim they got 10 extra horsepower, and the only reason why he is selling it, is cause is a lease car. But than again that's on ebay. Everyone claim their product can make your car faster; just like the chip upgrade on ebay. hehe

Outland

I'm all for having someone else be the test subject. Ive just never seen a ported M45. I think there's still headroom beyond the current solutions, just not sure porting the s/c is really cost effective. If someone's got a ported M45, or knows a company that can point to a dyno, lets talk. Otherwise... I'd take a pass.

ClayJ

DITTO!

c230 o5

what is this > porting eatons

hobie

match porting can't hurt, but how much benefit there is on a m111 motor: I have no idea. what is it?....old school hot rod s. any body with a dremel and ***** can do it. just pull the parts and match the shape of the air passage between parts. "polish" is smoothing the air tracts. I once fu a set of '69 351W heads (only 69 and 70 did not have egr teats...a good part to ruin) by going through the casting. I'm guessing that a M111 would not benefit much unless all other paramaters have been maxed out first, as it is we're pushing as much air as the stock fuel system can handle already. the guy in florida who turbo'd his m111 had all kinds of trouble getting the fuel to catch up with the air.

HoustonC230

I'd be careful doing a DIY with a dremel. There was a guy who did it himself, and left some shavings in the S/C... well I'm sure we all know what wonderful things that did.

Outland

Port matching is shaving the gaskets, and aligning the edges of the openings so there is no disruption in the air flow. Its comepletely different from porting the S/C. But it has been known to show noticeable gains, depending on the amount of mismatch that existed from the factory

hobie

my bad outland, I assumed it meant matching the air passage transition between the sc and the in/outs. what is it exactly?

Outland

What he's talking about, is enlarging and sculpting passages and openings in the S/C itself. The theory is that Eaton has designed in some hinderences to air flow in the name of noise reduction...or lackluster design...take your pick. Some have found extra HP by doing so, especially in the larger M62.

Frankly, once youve got the M45 out...why put it back in? Replace it with something more effiecient.

Sauceboy01

What shall he replace it with!?

hobie

Try Cabo Wabo tequilia, and excellent way to pass (out) the time to and from the show in Detroit yesterday. (driver stuck to h2o).

Outland

A few would have been nice to today...watching big Ben kick sand into the face of the Broncos.

Outland

Several options exist...the larger M62 unit, an autorotor conversion, a Lysholm twin screw(similar to the autorotor), or even a turbocharger.

Sauceboy01

great, so who is going to do this!?

Outland

I think it should be one of you M271 guys...

v6killa

so the m62 could be custom fab to fit on but does anyone know if there will be any long term effects and do you think the engine could handle that much horsepower. well i take that back i dont think it will be that much hp but do you think i could take it. and if you were to rebuild the m45 do you think there would be any hp gains there.

hobie

I believe that the primary benefit of a more efficient supercharger on a m111 (that is already pullied) would be throttle response. Some increase in rwhp at rpm max would likely be derived from reduced parasitic power loss. Forcing even more air into the stock motor (from a larger supercharger) seems risky. High boost at high volume has been known to cause fuel delivery issues-which may still be unresolved. Generally speaking, anything over 100 hp/liter on a motor with stock internals is pushing the envelope (especially one that is only twisting 6k). Look at an S2000 at 6k or even a Modena, all the clever engineering and expense to get them to twist to 8k with ease does not open a window to more torque at low/mid rpm (even with variable valve timing). If one were to build a M111 with titanium rods, some high rpm cams and had the ecu spanked for 7k rpm then maybe more air would be a good idea. As it is, I'm pleased that this motor takes the the tweaks it does and never fills the board with threads about gaskets and bearings etc.

Outland

The M111 and M271 were designed as F/I motors. The internals are beefier than the NA motors. The M111 should be fine up to 300HP, assuming fuel and detonation issues are handled.

Outland

No, you'd get real HP gains. The electronic throttle limits throttle response. Its built in delay, saves gas I'm told.

Well, here's where it gets really interesting... a more effiecient supercharger, such as the lysholm, produces far less heat per pound of boost, than does say a Roots type blower like the M45. So, if you have less heat getting transfered to the intake charge, all kinds of cool(pun intended) effects follow...you get more oxygen in the engine, you get more fuel, you reduce the risk of detonation, allowing you to advance the ignition. All of this makes more HP at the same boost level. 10psi pullied M45 like in the M111 is generating 230-240 crank HP. Now, replace that M45 with the twinscrew, and that same ten pounds of boost will make more hp.

Its should be able to handle more. Fuel issues can be resolved several ways. Chipping, larger injectors, adjusting the FPR, etc. Yes, fuel delivery in a forced induction motor is very important. No fuel, you go boom.

Its no secret that the high specific outputs of many of the Honda motors is due to the high rpms they wind up to. These engines have low torque, they don't make more HP by pulling harder, they make it by pulling longer. Spinning them high also has its probems.

Torque is largely a function of displacement and stroke. When youre speaking of naturally aspirated motors, and torque, its hard to get around the old adage of there's no replacment for displacement. Forced induction however, is a different story

I would have no qualms running 15 psi on this motor. It doesn't balk at all at the pullied levels...that tells you there's some headroom remaining. IIRC, the M271 is making over 15psi in pullied and K-boxed form.

Capt Nemo o2

Outland, if it wasnt for the fact that I dont have the money, you would be a huge trouble maker! Everytime we get into a discussion about trying new methods (those not tried on the M271 yet) of adding HP, I agree with you 100%, and everytime it makes me wish I had a spare M271 to play with and bench test. Since the SC doesnt bolt right to the block, it can probably be done by a midnight mechanic! If some people want to fund this, I would put in the time! Then would just need some one to tune the ECU (no place on LI or near by that can do this!).

hobie

This is getting interesting, Outland. I guess somebody needs to approach a supercharger shop, Jeg's (speed shop-NHRA titles-big mail order business) is local and they have at least 1 MB (wife's wagon), maybe they can suggest somebody. I'm in for a more efficient blower. You can be the guinea pig for the rest. Sorry to learn about the throttle response issue.