mig888

Nah, I actually never did, but think about it, it's a ram air scoop conversion - if this ends up developing into an entire airbox, it'll be damn good anyway, and less boring under the hood.

slammer111

I'm gonna be honest here. You'll probably sell more units if you or someone else tests out your intake.

mig888

You're probably right, lol.

slammer111

^ So can you please arrange for such a test if you have time and it's not too much trouble? I'm sure probably 50% of that list is waiting to see if there's an actual gain. Thanks in advance!

mig888

Well the entire system might change AND I can't test/dyno something I don't even have anymore (sold the only one in existence for more than what's on the list). Personally, you either want a ram air scoop expecting a few ponies and real high quality carbon or... not. Anything is better than the dust collector.

Remember a mold will probably have to be created.

TONYTIGER

not to be mean , but re-locating air coming in from the left side instead of right, might not even make 1 hp difference. Air is more available or more efficient on left side only if engine is needed. But scoop without a good air filter or air box will not make even 1 hp difference. Look at the bored throttle body for this car, it made around 2-3 hp. What do you think an air scoop would do in comparison. Look good though, If you are going to spend over 150.00 for a scoop, its better of getting your Throttle Body Bored Out First. Then a Good Air box , of air filter, Then last a Scoop

tazim

im going to try to create an airbox that would have the filter on the outside like the hks mushroom filter then see the results on the dyno, might not be cf but i will try since i have no experience with carbon fiber

slammer111

Obviously you'd be setting the price, but what I'm saying is that with mass production, you'd be able to turn a nice profit, even with a lower final price. Even if you only made half the profit per unit, selling 20x the numbers = 10x the cash in your pocket. One can also see if the guy who bought your unit is willing to dyno, to satisfy the curiosity of the members here.

Actually, in theory, eliminating 90 degree bends gets rid of much pressure loss. This advantage is proportional to the square of the speed of the car, if I remember my fluid mechanics correctly. The $64000 question is whether or not this intake is the bottleneck of the M271.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mi...ngs-d_208.html
hminor_loss = ξ v2/ 2 g (1)
where
hminor_loss = minor head loss (m, ft)
ξ = minor loss coefficient
v = flow velocity (m/s, ft/s)
g = acceleration of gravity (m/s2, ft/s2)
90o bend, rounded radius/diameter duct >1 0.25 <- closest case to our M271 intake. We have 2 bends.

Unfortunately I no longer have my old textbook, but this is the general formula. Keep in mind this is VERY general. For you geeks I'm not factoring in Reynolds number, surface roughness etc etc.

At 100km/h (27.8 m/s), the head loss is therefore 2 * 0.25 * 27.8^2 / (2 * 9.81) = 19.695m.

Air has a density ρ of 1.2kg/m^3 at Standard Temperature and Pressure.

Delta P = ρgh = 1.2 * 9.81 = 19.695 = 231.84Pa increase with eliminating the bends, which is.. 0.0336 psi, or not much at all.

However, the stock intake does look like one of those bendy straws, so the actual change may be even higher.

If the M111 gets a 50hp boost (if I remember correctly?) with a pulley that adds 5psi (from 6 to 11), then using the laws of proportionality, we'd get about a 0.3hp gain. Mind you, this is conservative. So actually I should say the gain is >0.3hp.

TONYTIGER

our cars are forced induction engines, super charged!. The only benefit for a ram air or scoop is to provide cold or colder air into engine.. If you look at this scoop its not solid to air intake piece on top of radiator. Hot air from the engine compartment is being sucked in all around this scoop. What kind a benefit is that? Also like I said before The thread on Throttle body bored out , benefited about 2-3 horsepower which allows more air into the engine. If a dyno is done and proved me wrong, I am sorry. until then , this is what I believe. Spend your money first on a Bored Out Throttle body for 180.00. for 2-3 horsepower vs. A scoop I am guessing 150.00 or more for 0=zero to 1 hp. which I even doubt will get

slammer111

For any supercharger or pump, higher pressure in = higher pressure out, I can see this resulting in gains.

Anyways, this is the geeky engineer in me rambling, so don't mind me. All theoretical calculations aside, I agree that someone should just dyno the damn thing.

TONYTIGER

if you are talking about pressure or I am guessing more air allowed into engine. You would need a better air filter to allow that, or air box. In term to allow more CFM into engine.. Anyways I believe any scoop done to our super charged cars is to allow more cold air into engine, and to block out any hot air. This scoop still sucks in alot of enigne heat into air box, which hotter than outside air temp. Just lift up your hood after driving, it is way hotter inside engine bay , than outside of car. Please get real dyno result test, then maybe Ill buy one, if under 150.oo dollars and produce at least 2-5 horsepower. Good luck though.

TONYTIGER

here is a picture i found on this site. the ram air intake is completely sealed all around so NO hot air from engine compartment will affect air coming in from scoop or cause any Air Turbulence.

mig888

That just knocked you out anyway - real dry carbon fiber is as exotic as CF gets! I remember the throttle body bore was nearly 300 with core exchange too

mig888

Like I said, the design will most likely be changed too - of course I'll throw in as much input as I can, but it wouldn't be me making these.

TONYTIGER

I wouldnt put it on even If you gave it for FREE. lol Get a Dyno test , and laugh at yourself. 0=ZERO horsepower, more heat into intake equals a waste of money.. I know places boring out throttle bodies for 180.00 !!

mig888

Sigh, alright look homeslice, here's an example of a ram air intake system for S2Ks (yes, I know, S2K). One reason I have to believe they can even release a system like this for $899.99 is because there's just THAT much more in volume to sell to. Honda guys just naturally buy more aftermarket mods than Mercedes guys, right? Yes. Oh look it dyno'd nicely as well.

http://passwordjdm.com/PasswordJDM-D...P2406C393.aspx

Take a look at the construction - this organic-look dry CF airbox is something I'd love to develop for the M271, I just know not many people will jump in on it, and I have one! Shoot, even C32 owners would be proud to have something this sexy under the hood, no?

Yes, I'd ask Password/Password Industries to develop something cool for us, but honestly, am I wasting my time?

benzito911

nope.. lets move forward instead of backwards even if we have to go thru trial and error b4 get get a solid/decent products for our cars

im with u mig

SeaCoupe

Damn! I think I just sprouted a woodie!

I have no doubt this will make a power increase. Where in the rev band, and for how much of the band is the question.

People in SCCA, NASA and other racing circuits don't run ram setups for nothing.

FrankW

then go do your "bored" out throttle body already. stop talking.

for one, the direct scoop eliminates the long tube being heat soaked in "front" of the engine.

second, have you even opened up your M271 airbox and see how restricted it is? and how it is crushing the top of your cone filter?

third, there are at least 4 people that drove mig888's car before and after a simple change of front scoop. result was better throttle response and better pull on the highway/top end.

FrankW

I'd love a full CF airbox where all you need is to slide onto the TB on the M112K. that be sick.

nlpamg

these types of gains rarely show up on a dyno.

look at the RPi scoops for the M5. no matter how big a fan you put in front of it to simulate air entering the intake, you're not going to be able to simulate 70mph air going in. however, the scoops are proven at the track and many people love them.

like others have said, many people have tried this scoop and it does give a somewhat noticeable difference.

this is probably why there aren't many tuners for our car--everyone wants it on the cheap.

kOMPRESSEDc230

I'd still buy one, at least it looks a hell of a lot better than the worm tube.

hieracity

so where are we with this now

mig888

Hier - you can take point on this one if you want, I believe I PM'd you all you needed to know. Frosted Flakes up there might have just killed this project for me, but let me know if you need my help.

hieracity

Sigh!

I like your Frosted Flake reference though