Ashe

Hi Guys,

I have a quick question with an upcoming Service B I am going to perform on my newly purchased 2006 C280 4MATIC. I have been reading the forums like a mad man and think I am pretty well coached as to what I am required to do and how to go about the various maintenance items (thanks to Service B sheet found on this forum and # of DYI threads). The only issue leaving me stumped is whether I can use Valvoline SynPower 5w-30 or 5w-40. At the moment Schucks (aka PartsAmerica) has 1QT of the above oil(s) for .99 AR. Unfortunately Schucks does not carry the MST version as prescribed by Mercedes -- Found Here. From what I can see the Synpower MST has a 11.7 visc@100C versus the regular Synpower has 10.7 visc@100C.

What adds to my confusion, according to Valvoline's product info page ((Found Here), the SynPower 5W-40 is pending OEM approval for MB 229.51 which has closer specs to Mobil 1 0W-40 such as 14.5 visc@100C versus 14 visc@100C and 89 visc@40C versus 78.3 visc@40C, respectively. Mobil 1 details Found Here. So that makes me think the 5w-40 is a better choice.

I live in Anchorage Alaska where the temps range from ~80s in the summer to -20 in the winter. I do not want to ultimately do harm to my engine nor void my warranty. What do you guys advise?

Thanks in advance!

p_gill

Ashe,

The spec that you want to focus on is 229.5 because your car runs on gasoline.

If you have a diesel then 229.51 is the correct specification.

Why not just use Mobil 1 0W-40 that's what I use on my C230 03'

Are you changing the oil every 10,000 to 13,000 miles or every 3,000?

If you are going with the extended drain interval then sludge becomes a concern. On the previous generation C class mercedes had problems with people using conventional oil for 10,000 and the engine failed due to sludge.

Search for "mercedes sludge warranty" in google to see what I am talking about.

To solve the problem mercedes created the MB229.3 and then later the 229.5 specification.

If you choose an oil that they didn't specify then I wouldn't expect mercedes to cover sludge or wear damage to the engine.

But at the end of the day its your car and you can do whatever you want.

The link that you posted with the approved oils is a good reference. I would just select an oil from the list.

As I said I am using Mobil 1 0w-40 and I am quite happy with the choice.

For the the -20 startup in the winter you should run a full synthetic you can check the pour point and you will find that the synthetic oils are much lower then the dino oils. (again Mobil 1 0W-40 is a full synthetic with a very low pour point)

One last note when I was researching what oil to use I found that the spec that most manufacturers focus on is HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) and not viscosity. Just something to consider.


For what it's worth, once my car goes over 100,000 miles (and I am done with my extended waranty) I am switching to Mobil 1 15W-50, because it never gets below 40 degrees inside my garage. So I don't need 0W- oil.

Good luck

Paul

wingless

Very nice post!

The usage of MB229.51 oil has been authorized by MBUSA in vehicles specified by MB for oils requiring MB229.5 oil.

My impression is that permission was created to make life easier for dealerships, so they didn't need one 55 gallon barrel for gasoline vehicles (MB229.5) and a different barrel for diesel vehicles (MB229.51). Diesel must use MB229.51 oil.

It is probably okay to use either. I've remained with MB229.5 for my gas vehicle, per the factory specification.

C230 Sport Coup

Ashe.
Take a peek in the packet with the owners manual on lubricants.
You may find the various viscosities listed, with the temp ranges they cover.

I've been using the 10w-40 which is not approved, but I'm not waiting
15K miles like before either. I'm going to send out a sample for analyses next time, and compare it with Mobil 1 0-40 tests previously posted.
(which when ran the full length of time per the FSS was pretty much toast)

I see the only approved viscosity for 229.5 that they have on sale is the
20-50, which may not appropriate for your climate.

For me, with 229.3 I have a few choices!
(Valvoline SynPower 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40, 20W-50 )
I think they have the 5w-30 and the 20-50 but not the other ones on sale.
But the 229.3 standard was part of the FSS thing, which
I really pay no attention to now that I'm doing stuff myself.

I know it can cost bucks to go the dealer, but while you're under warranty,
it can really be beneficial to do so if your dealer is good about
doing updates and whatnot.

But yeh, my last oil change cost me less than $20 !

Here's the service sheet for your particular year!

PS You didn't pick your screen name for Bruce Campbell's character did you ? (in army of darkness)
I love the line...."Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun".

Ashe

My thanks to both of you for the feedback.

P_Gill

I am doing the extended drain interval but wanted to see if the Valvoline SynPower, a fully synthetic oil, would be acceptable since it is currently on sale and far cheaper then Mobil 1 0w-40. I appreciate the tidbit on HTHS that helps me pinpoint what metric to compare the oils against.

Just to recap, as Wingless mentioned, it is permissible for MB229.5 to use motor oil that is prescribed for MB229.51 but not the other way around.

If you look further down on that list of approved oils (Here Again) you will see the following --

MB sheet 229.5 approved oils; "MB Longlife Service Oils"
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain intervals beyond 229.3 oils, to 30,000 km, min 1.8% fuel saving, first oils introduced summer 2002. ACEA A3 B4. For gas engines of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with Euro 4 diesel particle filters).
229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils.

AGIP Formula LL DC 5W-30 (I)
Aral SuperTronic G 0W-30 (D)
Castrol DCO TOPUP 0W-30 (D)
Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30 (USA)
Elf Excellium 229.5 5W-30 (F)
FormulaShell Ultra AB 5W-30 (GB)
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB 5W-30 (D)
Labo MB 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech 5W-30 (D)
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 (USA)
Mobil 1 Turbodiesel 0W-40
Mobil SHC Formula MB 5W-30
Motorex Profil M-XL 5W-30 (CH)
OMV full syn MB 5W-30 (A)
Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Premium Synthetik Motorenöl 5W-30 (DaimlerChrysler, D)
Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Shell Helix Ultra AB 5W-30 (Mercedes-Benz) (GB)
Shell Helix Ultra DC 229.5 (GB)
Total Quartz 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Valvoline SynPower MB 5W-30 (NL)
Valvoline SynPower 5W-40
Valvoline SynPower 20W-50

I failed to notice this the first time around but it seems the Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 is approved by MB as indicated from the list above. So I suppose the best Valvoline oil to use would be SynPower 5w-40 over the SynPower 5w-30 when comparing the two.

To those DYI you may want to hit up one of the many PartsAmerica stores (Schucks, Checkers, Kragen) and pick-up (or stock-up on) the Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 on-sale at $.99 a QT after-rebate. If you are former customer, fill out this survey and receive a 25% Printable Coupon (Found Here) to make your purchase Free After Rebate (!).

C230 Sport Coup

Assuming they have that grade.
Last time it was limited to the less popular viscosities.

Ashe

C230

Matter of fact I did - I am a huge AOD and Sam Raimi fan. One of my favorite lines:

Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand things with alloys and compositions and things with... molecular structures.

Thanks for that service sheet that will come very handy.

I would go to my dealership if they didn't charge an arm and leg for the Service B. The running price was $450 and upwards depending on what additional maintenance issues they discover. I would rather pocket the money and mod my ride. I can always bring my vehicle to the dealership for diagnostic check which they do not charge for.

You were right, PartsAmerica does not carry the 5w-40 in my area only the 5w-30, 10w-30 and 20w-50. Hmm..since the temperatures in Anchorage can get quite cold (-20F or -28.99C) what value should I pay particular importance to? If you compare the Mobil 1 0w-40 and the Valvoline SynPower 20W-50 viscosity 78.3 visc@40C versus 145 visc@40C, respectively, there is a dramatic spread between the two values. I will pull out my owner's manual when I get home for additional guidance.

C230 Sport Coup

Ha, my g'friend always likes to look at me and say

"I may be bad.....but I FEEL good!"

We're both rabid BC fans, and Sam Rami I suppose too.
Love those Cameo's in the Spiderman movies.

Can't wait for the new episodes of Burn Notice.

I seem to recall that 20-50 was for 26F and above. Mostly for hotter climes.
We'll test my memory.

My feeling is, if you do it every 7K or so miles instead of waiting, I mean, how can it hurt? We'll know when I do my next oil change if I'm full of crap or not. I'll post the test result. For me the Mobil 1 0-40 tends to burn a lot. I have to top off between oil changes with about 2 quarts.
Now when it tells me I'm low on oil, I just change it using the drill operated pump I got from boatersworld.com
Takes about 15 minutes start to finish including clean up!

In the case of my engine, the M111, is was around a long time before
the 229.3 sheet was released for the benefit of FSS, which has proven to be about as valid as the "lifetime" transmission fluid.

You could use the Valvoline in the summer, and something else in the winter.
You are the reason they invented 0-40w.

Thanks for the link of the survey thing!
Ha, I'm gonna try that!
FREE oil! Damn.

p_gill

Ashe

The valvoline oil that you found for $1 is too good to pass up.

I am also burning about 2 quarts of Mobil 1 0W-40 every 10,000 miles, I am going to look into the Valvoline Synpower further.

Good luck!!!!


C230 spot coup

Is this the pump that you are using???

http://www.boatersworld.com/product/367400017.htm


Wingless

My Bypass hose for the supercharger bit the dust shortly after switching to Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 (for MY07+ diesel), this is a 229.51 oil, so I am a bit superstitious. But the reality is that it was probably just a coincidence.

Thanks for the information you are absolutely right about the 229.51 it was the dealer that changed my oil at that time.

Now that the free maintainance period is over I am doing everything myself.


Thanks

Paul

datgai

I'm surprised Amsoil isn't on the list...

wingless

Amsoil European Car Formula Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil satisfies MB229.31 and MB229.51 specifications. If that is appropriate for the vehicle, then that oil should be acceptable.

Moviela

MBUSA has back peddeled on advice to use Sheet 229.51 oils in gasoline engines. If you burn gas, you should continue to use Sheet 229.5 oils only.

The sheet names at lot of familar names of oils that are not marketed in the US or Canada. The important information is on the bottle. It must say it meets Mercedes Sheet 229.5. Any other mention of Daimler or Mercedes is simply advertising and should be ignored.

If you have an older C class that specified 229.3 oils, you can use 229.5 oils with the mandatory fleece (polyester) oil filter and extend the change interval. Sorry AMG engine fellas, this does not apply to you.

The Mobil 1 0W-40 has about double the additive package of other synthetic oils in order to meet the spec's of 229.5. Amsoil cannot meet this spec. with their current product line.

For rattley Diesel engines, sheet 229.51 is a low ash oil, but does not need the additive package componets of the 229.5 oils. The products of combustion that reach the crankcase are quite different in Diesel v. Gasoline (petrol for our Brittish friends) engines.

If you want to keep sludge out of your gasoline engine, use the oil specified on Sheet 229.5.

Use an oil that is not specified, and a paper filter you will subject your motor to a "Black Death" from sludge. Go drive an early C class at a used car lot. If it has all the performance of a Briggs & Stratton powered yard tool, you know the owner saved big bucks using 99 cent oil and regular gas.

C230 Sport Coup

Yeh, thats the one, but with my battery operated drill I have to sit and hold the button down, no lock. That being said, a small price to pay for
15 minute oil changes once every 6 months, where for certain I"m getting 7 quarts out of the crankcase.
But it used to be less expensive.

I'm a bit curious about this model.
12v oil extraction pump.
http://www.amazon.com/Unified-Marine...9617625&sr=8-5
Perhaps you could spend the 25 bucks and give us a review.

One guy says it has no suction, but people say that about the Sureflo too.
You need for the oil to be warm, but not excessively hot for it to flow.
Once it starts to flow, it will go easily.

Somebody else said something about the hoses, but that's nothing you couldn't solve with 5 dollars at the local hardware store.
Give it a whirl, and let us know.

RWaggsC240

Hello there, I have a 2003 Mercedes C240, with 140,000 miles on it, I've owned it for 125,000 of those miles, I change my oil every 5 to 7 thousand miles, I have always used Valvoline 5W30 Synthetic, no problem, the car runs like it did when I 1st bought it, perfectly...

It's all about how you drive...and take care of your car, I use Fram or bosch filters, whatever is available at Kragen and have no sludge problems whatsover..

I do live in California and maybe the warm climate has something to do with it, but My car is going to run 4 ever, I know it every time I get in it...

I use the same oil in my wife's 2005 Jaguar X-Type 3.0, and same deal, no problems...

Just treat her right and she'll do you right...(Your wife & your automobiles.)

RWaggsC240

By the way, is Fram a paper filter or a fleece filter? Does anyone know. Or should I just stick with Bosch?

Glyn M Ruck

Fram is paper crap - ONLY use the Mann + Hummel fleece filter

Glyn M Ruck

You have done a lot of homework - I wish more people would. I'm not going to repeat myself or the good advice by Moviela. You can search my posts & threads in this regard.

Please stick strictly to the recommendations in my "Definitive" thread including viscometrics. We are talking Synthetics here. Cold weather is not an issue.

229.51 approved products are not suitable for Benz gasoline engines - they are for diesels

Stick with the Genuine Mann + Hummel fleece filter - available in Genuine silver MB packaging or M + H packaging. Ignore nonesense spoken about Bosch, Fram & all the others - NO GOOD

Be careful when purchasing products sold in the US to make sure they are 229.5 approved. When Benz says Euro formulation they mean just that. Many products sold under a similar name in the US fail HTHS including certain non approved Mobil 1s.

Good luck

LILBENZ230

I'd like to throw this out there:

I went into Advance Auto Parts to buy the Mobil 1 fully synthetic 0W-40 Euro formula for my last oil change and while I was there I looked at their oil filters. They had an in-store brand of oil filter for the Mercedes called Puralator for $12.99 or so. I was very skeptical, so I opened the box to it and pulled it out. Stamped on the filter were the words "MANN FILTER - MADE IN GERMANY"

So I'm going to assume that this is good to use? What do you guys think? I'm coming up for another one in about 2000 miles so I'll take a photo next time and get the Advance part number.

Glyn M Ruck

This is what the fleece filter looks like so if it's being repackaged by Puralator that's fine - just make sure

Bummyracer

Hey everyone,

I was trying to find something about oils and this post came up so ill just shoot my question here. I recently got my oil change at Firestone in So Cal (Was in a rush so couldn't go to my local MB guy), I didn't notice till after I left that they used a synthetic blend. How bad is this? Should I just have someone else re-do it? Is it ok to just drive on it for a while? Will this have an affect on my engine in the long run regardless of what I do?

Glyn M Ruck

What Product exactly was put in your car? Does it have 229.5 approval? What viscosity? You suggest that it is semi synthetic. Please answer.

If the product is not approved but of reasonable quality it's not a train smash for one change. Please don't try & do a full 13,000 mile drain on it. Reduce drain period to 9000 miles.

C230 Sport Coup

I'd just re-change it..or better yet take it back to Firestone and tell them they used the wrong oil and to please re-do it.
I wouldn't go 9K miles on a sythetic + plain old oil blend. I'd make sure to get back as soon as possible.
The manual states you can use plain oil in an emergency but you should change it ASAP when the correct oil becomes available.

ATL_MB

Bummy - I would make sure that the filter is fleece and that the oil used meets 229.5. When you find that it isn't and it doesn't, drain the oil immediately and replace it with the correct MB-approved oil and filter. I would not risk a $xx,000 repair bill (that will NOT be covered by warranty) by trying to save $60.

Glyn M Ruck

Bummy,
Don't fret - all these good people only have your interest at heart & I too like sticking to Benz approved products. The C240 is not a highly stressed engine. Does not have wild cams where HTHS (High Temp High Shear) is a major issue & is tough as nails. Any premium, API SL or SM semi synthetic product will protect the engine just fine but not for extended drain intervals. If you can't get Firestone to do a free change then just reduce the drain interval - you can go down to 7000 miles if you feel like a belt & bracers approach. You are not going to damage your engine doing this. The 240 M112 engine was available on world markets long before the 229.5 spec oils & did just fine on older formulations.

If you in any way feel uncomfortable - drain the product & refill with Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro formulation meeting 229.5 (not 229.51)

RWaggsC240

You're driving a Mercedes. It'll be fine. Do you think Hitler used Synthetic on his Benz'...I know the cars today are more sensitive, but one oil change with Synthetic blend will not hurt a "Mercedes" in the least. Try to use Full Syn, Valvoline, Mobil One, etc., but one change with Syn/Blend...your fine... From experience...