Does 27hp really make that big of a difference?
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: GA
2016 Chevrolet SS, 2006 Cadillac STS-V
Does 27hp really make that big of a difference?
We got a used 2006 C280 traded in and I got the used car inspection on it today. While I was driving it, I noticed it seems to be much faster than my C230 with only 27 less horsepower. Now by much faster, I don't mean the difference between a standard Corvette and a ZR-1 but I mean it feels like it has enough power where you could pass someone without worry. It also seemed like it had better throttle response than my car. Is there something different about the C280 other than the extra 27hp that I don't know about? It just seems odd to me that the Luxury Sedan seems to drive much better than the Sport Sedan (but that doesn't include the suspension setup).
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
The M272 cars are sllloooowwww. I picked up a 2007 C230 in white with Bi-X for a relative in May from MB of Buckhead. I drove it 100 miles back to her place and I was surprised at how much slower it was than my 2005 with the M271.
It was much smoother than my 2005, though - in ride, drive, and engine. But, again, significantly slower. The C300 (same engine as the C280) seems much quicker than both my C230K and much faster than the 2.5 C230.
It was much smoother than my 2005, though - in ride, drive, and engine. But, again, significantly slower. The C300 (same engine as the C280) seems much quicker than both my C230K and much faster than the 2.5 C230.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
It's how the 3 litre V6 develops it's power & torque & it's relationship to transmission & diff ratios. It also revs freely. It will knock the crap out of the smaller models. Looking at numbers is not the answer to how a vehicle performs in reality. The I4's run out of wind at high RPM while the V6 engines just go on spinning. This is reflected in their top speed.
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From: GA
2016 Chevrolet SS, 2006 Cadillac STS-V
My C230 is also a 2006 though, so I have the 2.5L M272. I'm talking about the comparison between the 2.5L and the 3.0L, not with a M271. It only has 27 more horsepower, though it does have 40 more lb ft of torque, but that's still not a huge difference. The main thing I noticed though was the throttle response seemed to be better, I noticed that more than just that it was faster overall. I wish I could a C350 Sport, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Yep - It's torque & good gear ratio matching. The little 2.5 is a great engine but you need to rev it with determination to make it go & ratio matching to the 7G box could be better.
We have a 350 W204 & it pulls like a train. Not quite as smooth as the smaller engines though.
We have a 350 W204 & it pulls like a train. Not quite as smooth as the smaller engines though.
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From: GA
2016 Chevrolet SS, 2006 Cadillac STS-V
I think I tune makes a great difference in driveability more than a power increase. I love the tune I bought for my Trailblazer, but it also cost $150 and not $500. I think if I could make this car drive like it had a throttle cable, I wouldn't have a problem at all with the power it makes. That's what bugs me about my car. It only has 200hp and when I put the pedal to the floor, by the time the car decides to give me the power I want, its too late.
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
40lb-ft of torque is signficant, as is 30hp. Think about the mods people do their cars to acheive 5 or 10 HP here and there.
The 2.5 M272 is a smooth operator, that's for sure. It's just slow, unfortunately. To add insult to injury the 2.5L M272 seems to be less fuel efficient than the 3.5L M272. I was able to get 30mpg on the interstate in a loaner W204 C350 whereas the 2007 C230 I drove would barely get 22mpg in the same conditions. Neither, however, match the 33-35mpg I can get with my car.
Oh, and +1 on the C350 Sport being the best pick!
The 2.5 M272 is a smooth operator, that's for sure. It's just slow, unfortunately. To add insult to injury the 2.5L M272 seems to be less fuel efficient than the 3.5L M272. I was able to get 30mpg on the interstate in a loaner W204 C350 whereas the 2007 C230 I drove would barely get 22mpg in the same conditions. Neither, however, match the 33-35mpg I can get with my car.
Oh, and +1 on the C350 Sport being the best pick!
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From: Nor Cal
A Car
So how bad is MB's 5 speed tranny?
Ive been hearing the gearings suck, and from my experience, they do.
It lags, its slow, its unresponsive, the power isnt placed within gears so well to the point a 193hp 328i can beat a car like mine.
Ive been hearing the gearings suck, and from my experience, they do.
It lags, its slow, its unresponsive, the power isnt placed within gears so well to the point a 193hp 328i can beat a car like mine.
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From: The blue white rock, third out.
2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
It's how the 3 litre V6 develops it's power & torque & it's relationship to transmission & diff ratios. It also revs freely. It will knock the crap out of the smaller models. Looking at numbers is not the answer to how a vehicle performs in reality. The I4's run out of wind at high RPM while the V6 engines just go on spinning. This is reflected in their top speed.
Smaller engines generally enjoy the revs more than larger ones...its called reciprocating mass. Its why the small bike engines rev to 15,000 RPM, and a big *** V8 tanks at 5500. There's also so many more factors related to how an engine performs at higher RPM like the valvespring rates, pushrods vs. overhead cams, the #of valves, the flow rates on the head, etc...
I know on my car, the only reason the car falls off the powerband around 6300 is that MB told it too. It pulls hard right past the redline, and then you can feel the ECU taking over- retarding the ignition. IIRC, the system also begins bleeding boost shortly before redline. Its all about the model ranges...you can't your entry level cars outperforming the more expensive six cylinder cars.
Top speed of the M271 and M111 cars is 148 and 149 respectively- in markets where the limiter isn't turned on. Top speed is still about HP, drag and gearing.
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From: The blue white rock, third out.
2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
What I always hated about the mb 5 speed is how it would hang in a gear when you got off the gas. That's fine if your tap shifting, but in normal use its irritating as FFFF how the car slows immediately when you lift- the Honda does the same thing.. AUtomatics....Yuck.
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
The 2006-2007 C230s with the 2.5L and 7G are frustrating to drive for three reasons: The engine is too weak, the transmission is constantly shifting, and to top all of that off, the gas mileage blows.
No thanks. I'll take my C230K or I'll take a C350.
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From: Nor Cal
A Car
Have you driven the 7 speed? I can't stand it. It hunts for gears constantly. Even small blips in the throttle send it hurtling thru the gears.
What I always hated about the mb 5 speed is how it would hang in a gear when you got off the gas. That's fine if your tap shifting, but in normal use its irritating as FFFF how the car slows immediately when you lift- the Honda does the same thing.. AUtomatics....Yuck.
What I always hated about the mb 5 speed is how it would hang in a gear when you got off the gas. That's fine if your tap shifting, but in normal use its irritating as FFFF how the car slows immediately when you lift- the Honda does the same thing.. AUtomatics....Yuck.
It sounds terrible to have. I drive in stop and go city traffic in rush hour all the time, so the 5 speed auto suites my needs.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: VA
THE C350
yeah i love the 5 speed in my c320. holycaoamg i think your problem might be too much traffic. if i drive in too much traffic my car becomes really bad stoplight to stoplight. but then if i drive it like i stole it for like 10 minutes it becomes really smooth and fast shifting and will actually let you rev
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Have you driven the 7 speed? I can't stand it. It hunts for gears constantly. Even small blips in the throttle send it hurtling thru the gears.
What I always hated about the mb 5 speed is how it would hang in a gear when you got off the gas. That's fine if your tap shifting, but in normal use its irritating as FFFF how the car slows immediately when you lift- the Honda does the same thing.. AUtomatics....Yuck.
What I always hated about the mb 5 speed is how it would hang in a gear when you got off the gas. That's fine if your tap shifting, but in normal use its irritating as FFFF how the car slows immediately when you lift- the Honda does the same thing.. AUtomatics....Yuck.
btw to 91RS, 30hp and 40lb-ft of torque makes a world of differences.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Huh?
Smaller engines generally enjoy the revs more than larger ones...its called reciprocating mass. Its why the small bike engines rev to 15,000 RPM, and a big *** V8 tanks at 5500. There's also so many more factors related to how an engine performs at higher RPM like the valvespring rates, pushrods vs. overhead cams, the #of valves, the flow rates on the head, etc...
I know on my car, the only reason the car falls off the powerband around 6300 is that MB told it too. It pulls hard right past the redline, and then you can feel the ECU taking over- retarding the ignition. IIRC, the system also begins bleeding boost shortly before redline. Its all about the model ranges...you can't your entry level cars outperforming the more expensive six cylinder cars.
Top speed of the M271 and M111 cars is 148 and 149 respectively- in markets where the limiter isn't turned on. Top speed is still about HP, drag and gearing.
Smaller engines generally enjoy the revs more than larger ones...its called reciprocating mass. Its why the small bike engines rev to 15,000 RPM, and a big *** V8 tanks at 5500. There's also so many more factors related to how an engine performs at higher RPM like the valvespring rates, pushrods vs. overhead cams, the #of valves, the flow rates on the head, etc...
I know on my car, the only reason the car falls off the powerband around 6300 is that MB told it too. It pulls hard right past the redline, and then you can feel the ECU taking over- retarding the ignition. IIRC, the system also begins bleeding boost shortly before redline. Its all about the model ranges...you can't your entry level cars outperforming the more expensive six cylinder cars.
Top speed of the M271 and M111 cars is 148 and 149 respectively- in markets where the limiter isn't turned on. Top speed is still about HP, drag and gearing.
the NA M112 is very willing to rev even if the redline is considerably low vs BMWs.
your engine fells off the redline at 6200rpm not because MB tells it to. it's because without beefing up the pistons and upgrade the cams it simply cannot breath efficiently and make power and the small *** roots supercharger cannot cope with much higher speed without needing better cooling. adding 2-3 psi like most aftermarket pulley kit is about as MAX as you can go without tearing the engine down and rebuilt it for more power like the one you see on youtube featuring a M111 purpose built engine making around 300hp without supercharging in a race car.
there's a reason M271 now comes with a turbo instead of supercharger.
Last edited by FrankW; Sep 2, 2009 at 03:15 AM.
Thread Starter
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From: GA
2016 Chevrolet SS, 2006 Cadillac STS-V
That's what this thread was made to find out! I guess I've never really paid attention to how much of a difference even that much more power makes. Plus, I don't think I've driven two similar cars back to back before where I'd notice the difference either.
