m272 c230 performance camshafts/heads...?
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
m272 c230 performance camshafts/heads...?
Anyone here done any cam or head work? Does anyone even offer a performance grind for the chamshafts for the c230? (i think I saw kleeman makes one for the c350?)
Anyone looked into having some camshafts custom ground?
How about machine work done on the heads? (at the least port/polish... better yet machine work to increase compression or better yet custom valves?)
Anyone know who I would want to approach to have any of this done? I graduate dental school in may of 12 and instead of spending more money on a new car, when i absoloutely love my c230, would totally consider spending 3-5K+ in getting some custom valvetrain work done to pony it up.
Anyone looked into having some camshafts custom ground?
How about machine work done on the heads? (at the least port/polish... better yet machine work to increase compression or better yet custom valves?)
Anyone know who I would want to approach to have any of this done? I graduate dental school in may of 12 and instead of spending more money on a new car, when i absoloutely love my c230, would totally consider spending 3-5K+ in getting some custom valvetrain work done to pony it up.
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
And another question...
does anyone know the cam specs for not only this car, but the c350 engine?
how about the valve sizes for each the two heads?
I ask because Im going to assume that the cams and heads are probably interchangeable, and if the specs happen to be more aggressive, an inexpensive swap could be in order for a performance upgrade.
edit: same question regarding the valvetrain off the c280 swapping into a c230
does anyone know the cam specs for not only this car, but the c350 engine?
how about the valve sizes for each the two heads?
I ask because Im going to assume that the cams and heads are probably interchangeable, and if the specs happen to be more aggressive, an inexpensive swap could be in order for a performance upgrade.
edit: same question regarding the valvetrain off the c280 swapping into a c230
Last edited by cpbeasley; Sep 19, 2010 at 06:04 AM.
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If you put a aggressive grind of cams in this engine if there is even such anthing this car would sound menacing. It's probably possible to do the valvetrain swap, but where are you going to find that?
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
A custom ground cam setup could potentially sound very, very mean. Id also give it enough lobe separation to get a little old school muscle car lope out of it too 
I'm an LS1 guy recently converted to my c230... so I don't know who would be an expert in DOHC grinds... I may start by calling Lunati and see what they have to say. I had them grind my LS1 cam, maybe they'll at least point me in the right direction.
Does anyone know the stock compression? I ask b/c could at least do some clearancing of the deck to increase compression... I could also at least port/polish/angle valve job
But can anyone chime in on cam and/or head specs for the c230 vs c280 vs c350 engines?
Before I got crazy with custom stuff, if the bigger motors have more aggressive cams/heads, could at least buy the valvetrain off of a salvaged 06-07 c350 (for instance) and do the swap. Im going to assume the bolt pattern is all the same as they've all surely got to be the same block?
And dont they make headers for the 3.5L? So at that rate could invest in a set of those to top it off.
I'm an LS1 guy recently converted to my c230... so I don't know who would be an expert in DOHC grinds... I may start by calling Lunati and see what they have to say. I had them grind my LS1 cam, maybe they'll at least point me in the right direction.
Does anyone know the stock compression? I ask b/c could at least do some clearancing of the deck to increase compression... I could also at least port/polish/angle valve job
But can anyone chime in on cam and/or head specs for the c230 vs c280 vs c350 engines?
Before I got crazy with custom stuff, if the bigger motors have more aggressive cams/heads, could at least buy the valvetrain off of a salvaged 06-07 c350 (for instance) and do the swap. Im going to assume the bolt pattern is all the same as they've all surely got to be the same block?
And dont they make headers for the 3.5L? So at that rate could invest in a set of those to top it off.
Last edited by cpbeasley; Sep 19, 2010 at 11:09 AM.
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to be honest i think it would probably cheaper just to swap in a ls1 with custom mounts to then try to frankstein these parts. I doubt the c350 head would be that compatible with your c230 since the c350 is direct injection and the rest of the m272's are port injection. You might be able to reuse the cam though.
Here's some more info about the c350 engine, but it talks mostly about the direct injection.
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Feb06/2...sCLS30CGI.html
Here's some more info about the c350 engine, but it talks mostly about the direct injection.
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Feb06/2...sCLS30CGI.html
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All us spec m272's are port injected. Mercedes refuses to bring over the direct injection because US fuel cannot support it. (this is why other manufactures are having engine problems with their Di engines at moderate mileage)
Moving on, my reading tells me the c230 and c280 share the same head. The C350 head should interchange with no problem and is mainly the same. I'm not sure what the difference is aside from the part number. I'm banking on it having less combustion chamber volume to raise the compression (note: guessing). If you have an M272 C230 why not just swap the internals for a 350 and call it a day, the blocks are almost identical. These cars use cylinder liners so its an even easier swap. (thats my plan at least, strip to bare block swap internals and tune as a 350) Almost forgot the intake manifold, grab that too.
You gotta love these Germans for interchangeable parts.
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No.
All us spec m272's are port injected. Mercedes refuses to bring over the direct injection because US fuel cannot support it. (this is why other manufactures are having engine problems with their Di engines at moderate mileage)
Moving on, my reading tells me the c230 and c280 share the same head. The C350 head should interchange with no problem and is mainly the same. I'm not sure what the difference is aside from the part number. I'm banking on it having less combustion chamber volume to raise the compression (note: guessing). If you have an M272 C230 why not just swap the internals for a 350 and call it a day, the blocks are almost identical. These cars use cylinder liners so its an even easier swap. (thats my plan at least, strip to bare block swap internals and tune as a 350) Almost forgot the intake manifold, grab that too.
You gotta love these Germans for interchangeable parts.
All us spec m272's are port injected. Mercedes refuses to bring over the direct injection because US fuel cannot support it. (this is why other manufactures are having engine problems with their Di engines at moderate mileage)
Moving on, my reading tells me the c230 and c280 share the same head. The C350 head should interchange with no problem and is mainly the same. I'm not sure what the difference is aside from the part number. I'm banking on it having less combustion chamber volume to raise the compression (note: guessing). If you have an M272 C230 why not just swap the internals for a 350 and call it a day, the blocks are almost identical. These cars use cylinder liners so its an even easier swap. (thats my plan at least, strip to bare block swap internals and tune as a 350) Almost forgot the intake manifold, grab that too.
You gotta love these Germans for interchangeable parts.
There a bunch of other cars currently in the US using DI. All the vw and audi 2.0T's, 335i's, and even the new turbo sonata uses DI and 87 gas.
The main reason mercedes didn't bring it over is because the CGI technology requires a more costly cat.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...ncy-auto_shows
Last edited by TemjinX2; Sep 20, 2010 at 09:58 AM.
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From: KC, MO
"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
thanks for the input!
im not an engineer by any means, but i do love gettin greasy and tearing motors apart. cant tell you how many times i had my LS1 down to the internals. having access to a lift and more tools than id ever need is also a plus.
do you have any sources for all the tehcnical info on each of these motors? id like to investigate further cam specs and heads specs. id love it if i could just do a head/cam swap and get something out of that for starters. then play with the idea of switching cranks for the longer stroke, and going with the larger bore.
im not an engineer by any means, but i do love gettin greasy and tearing motors apart. cant tell you how many times i had my LS1 down to the internals. having access to a lift and more tools than id ever need is also a plus.
do you have any sources for all the tehcnical info on each of these motors? id like to investigate further cam specs and heads specs. id love it if i could just do a head/cam swap and get something out of that for starters. then play with the idea of switching cranks for the longer stroke, and going with the larger bore.
No.
All us spec m272's are port injected. Mercedes refuses to bring over the direct injection because US fuel cannot support it. (this is why other manufactures are having engine problems with their Di engines at moderate mileage)
Moving on, my reading tells me the c230 and c280 share the same head. The C350 head should interchange with no problem and is mainly the same. I'm not sure what the difference is aside from the part number. I'm banking on it having less combustion chamber volume to raise the compression (note: guessing). If you have an M272 C230 why not just swap the internals for a 350 and call it a day, the blocks are almost identical. These cars use cylinder liners so its an even easier swap. (thats my plan at least, strip to bare block swap internals and tune as a 350) Almost forgot the intake manifold, grab that too.
You gotta love these Germans for interchangeable parts.
All us spec m272's are port injected. Mercedes refuses to bring over the direct injection because US fuel cannot support it. (this is why other manufactures are having engine problems with their Di engines at moderate mileage)
Moving on, my reading tells me the c230 and c280 share the same head. The C350 head should interchange with no problem and is mainly the same. I'm not sure what the difference is aside from the part number. I'm banking on it having less combustion chamber volume to raise the compression (note: guessing). If you have an M272 C230 why not just swap the internals for a 350 and call it a day, the blocks are almost identical. These cars use cylinder liners so its an even easier swap. (thats my plan at least, strip to bare block swap internals and tune as a 350) Almost forgot the intake manifold, grab that too.
You gotta love these Germans for interchangeable parts.
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Mercedes pioneered direct injection, they are the experts, they know what it can do and its limitations.
Limitations being this.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=14
A Di gas engine will only last until its warranty runs out. Then terrible things start to happen. Mercedes has chosen not to sully its reputation (more), unlike other companies.
BMW has not offered Direct Injection on any naturally aspirated (non-turbo) motor in the US due to the sulfur content of US fuel and they do not plan on offering it on them in the future
Alas this is not the tread for DI speak. If you would like to take it out side we can always open a new thread on it.
____________________________________
And to OP:
The C350 headers off a W204 fit up just fine. Its been done across the entire M272 range. Kleeman makes a set and you can find ebay knockoffs of them (for cheap!!)
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Do you honestly consider Mercedes to be a value car company that cares about how much their parts cost? Because $600 for an nox catalytic converter is too much but power head rests are a necessity. Especially on say an S class
Mercedes pioneered direct injection, they are the experts, they know what it can do and its limitations.
Limitations being this.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=14
A Di gas engine will only last until its warranty runs out. Then terrible things start to happen. Mercedes has chosen not to sully its reputation (more), unlike other companies.
from:http://www.bimmerfile.com/2009/05/01...pth/#more-2920
Alas this is not the tread for DI speak. If you would like to take it out side we can always open a new thread on it.
____________________________________
And to OP:
The C350 headers off a W204 fit up just fine. Its been done across the entire M272 range. Kleeman makes a set and you can find ebay knockoffs of them (for cheap!!)
Mercedes pioneered direct injection, they are the experts, they know what it can do and its limitations.
Limitations being this.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=14
A Di gas engine will only last until its warranty runs out. Then terrible things start to happen. Mercedes has chosen not to sully its reputation (more), unlike other companies.
from:http://www.bimmerfile.com/2009/05/01...pth/#more-2920
Alas this is not the tread for DI speak. If you would like to take it out side we can always open a new thread on it.
____________________________________
And to OP:
The C350 headers off a W204 fit up just fine. Its been done across the entire M272 range. Kleeman makes a set and you can find ebay knockoffs of them (for cheap!!)
NOX is a smog regulated gas and our NOX levels are stricter then in europe. Same reason diesel cars tend to have more trouble passing smog and require more expensive smog devices to pass smog versus gasoline.
It has no relationship to the reliability of the engine, like your implying. The fact that they use the engine in Europe and VW and Audi mass produces the DI 2.0T in the United States should be proof enough that DI engines are reliable.
Mercedes concluded it wasn't cost effective for a 2.8mpg gain. Its probably less when you convert it to US standards since they use larger imperial gallons and we use standard gallons.
BMW uses DI in the 335i and they have no problems with the engine even when taken to 500whp + on a stock block. Only problem they have is with the fuel pumps which isn't related to the engine.
Last edited by TemjinX2; Sep 20, 2010 at 02:14 PM.
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to the op, the best person to ask for oem specs is probably glyn.
Also kleemann produces camshafts for the m272 3.5L. You can ask them if they would work with your car.
http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/Power/Camshafts.aspx
Also kleemann produces camshafts for the m272 3.5L. You can ask them if they would work with your car.
http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/Power/Camshafts.aspx
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
to the op, the best person to ask for oem specs is probably glyn.
Also kleemann produces camshafts for the m272 3.5L. You can ask them if they would work with your car.
http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/Power/Camshafts.aspx
Also kleemann produces camshafts for the m272 3.5L. You can ask them if they would work with your car.
http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/Power/Camshafts.aspx
yes, the m272 cam for 3.5 not only works, but theyve performed the mod ALOT in the middle east into the 2.3L.
this goes for their headers as well.
this isnt over
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
and btw, without explanation, they did say that a head swap from a 3.5 was not recommended.
Im waiting on a quote from Kleemann USA for the cam + ECU tune...
but it appears the cam swap alone would cost $1300 at the merc dealer. will be getting a quote from a good indy euro mechanic next.
Im waiting on a quote from Kleemann USA for the cam + ECU tune...
but it appears the cam swap alone would cost $1300 at the merc dealer. will be getting a quote from a good indy euro mechanic next.
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i thought i'd mention this because i'm sure other people will. Your car is worth about $13-14k, you can pick up 05 C55 AMG for $20k. So for $6k more you get stock 362hp, 5.4L v8, and better suspension.
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THE C350
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From: KC, MO
"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
better yet buy an 02 f-body for less than 10, put a $300 cam in it w/ a couple of sway bars for another $300 and out 1/4 mi and out corner the C55. but I'm not going for economics here, aside from that...
my graduation present to myself is going to be a C63
in the meantime i think id like to be the only retard on here with a cam'ed 2.3L
my graduation present to myself is going to be a C63
in the meantime i think id like to be the only retard on here with a cam'ed 2.3L
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Cams are totally a DIY. I thought you liked to work on things?
PS if you can "acquire" a copy of wis its useful for finding part numbers.
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
I was just thinking about that. It could be that the 350 has a different valve relief in its pistons to avoid interference. Which would make sense esp with different combustion chamber volume (and different compression). I'm going to look for detailed specs on that.
Cams are totally a DIY. I thought you liked to work on things?
PS if you can "acquire" a copy of wis its useful for finding part numbers.
Cams are totally a DIY. I thought you liked to work on things?
PS if you can "acquire" a copy of wis its useful for finding part numbers.
Plus, never worked on a DOHC. I spoke with a Merc service manager yesterday who actually designs custom supercharged applications for LS cars (camaros, corvettes), and he even said swapping cams on the DOHC was a bear. Im not afraid, as long as I knew I had all the tools and a better understanding of the physical components of the DOHC vs traditional. Other than picturing two cams sitting ontop of a cylinder head, I don't even know a thing about the mechanics of it. And this is my DD so I cant do anything to EFF it up come time for this. I need to find at the very very least a Chilton manual on replacing the cams.
Whats wis?
And you mentioned that all m272 w204 headers work on all m272 w203 applications? So thats def true? I saw ebay has a set called "OBX" for under $400, specifically stated to fit the w204.
Are there any modifications required that you know of for specifically fitting a set of these into my 06 2.5L?
Let me know what you find out about the cylinder headers. im more than interested.
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Whats wis?
And you mentioned that all m272 w204 headers work on all m272 w203 applications? So thats def true? I saw ebay has a set called "OBX" for under $400, specifically stated to fit the w204.
Are there any modifications required that you know of for specifically fitting a set of these into my 06 2.5L?
And you mentioned that all m272 w204 headers work on all m272 w203 applications? So thats def true? I saw ebay has a set called "OBX" for under $400, specifically stated to fit the w204.
Are there any modifications required that you know of for specifically fitting a set of these into my 06 2.5L?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...2-headers.html
Also karo has done it in his C350. It seems that the header comes very close to the steering shaft, in karo's case (and on some of the w204's) it hits under some conditions. The solution seems to be heat the headers up and bend them.
The OBX are kleemann knock offs, fitment is unknown but on other forums I've seem them make a pretty good product. I would go for it if it doesnt work out just return them. They seem pretty identical though.
Also wis is workshop-information-system its the mercedes service manual.
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2009 blk/blk C63 AMG, 2010 wht/blk c300 sport, 06 c280, 12 Triumph Daytona 675R wht/blk/red
so you guys are saying those OBX w204 headers would fit on my w203? its a 2006 c280 4matic m272. sorrry for starting this thread back up but im seriously interested.. and if they do fit, you better believe ill be buying them bright and early tmrw morning.
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2007 C280 4Matic
From the looks of it there should be no problems. As an M272 engine the flanges should bolt up with no problem. A proper exhaust shop (which you need anyway) can take care of any additional bending required.
