ProV1

don't mean to start a troll -

'15 Genesis AWD 3.8 maxed out with every option $46.5k, $5.7k off msrp

'15 C300 sport 4matic P1, premium, leather interior pkg, multimedia pkg, metallic paint $43.4k, $7880 off msrp



both cars can be had well off MSRP. Genesis is roomier, has more toys & options, and 3.8L V6. Has a 10yr warranty. Drove surprisingly well & like a premium car. But it's a hyundai

BTW i dont really care about 0-60 or lateral g - let's get real I drive under speed limits 99% of the time and stuck in traffic.

I don't like the current styling of E-class, but C class looks really nice inside & out.

I'll have to test drive both again to decide - hmm

floridadriver

'15 Genesis is a neat concept, not much ingenuity into it, it kinda mimics what others have done. I am all for competition if it helps ramp up quality and reliability. That said, though it has more space than a luxury car in same price, it's a low VALUE. Priced up to it's ultimate package, IMO there's better options for candidates willing to leave the luxury brand/badging/experience/engineering out of the equation in quest for a bit more space.

I tested one with open mindset, there's too many glaring areas overlooked that are immensely cheap and plastic on the interior and mechanically that are directly out of the Hyundai Accent. Seemed they used a checklist to try and compete with the market but Genesis unfortunately misses out on the total package. It feels kinda like a NYC street bought "luxury" watch, that's not the real thing. THAT said, some may not notice the difference, and if you don't, why spend more $$?

When I test drove the Genesis, I could see this as the target buyer: A realtor who drives an Accord, needs the room for clients, is on a budget, doesn't really care about the mechanical precisions in a true luxury car, doesn't want to appear too brand conscious, wants to tell her friends how smart she was to get the Genesis and saved a few thousand dollars. She probably also wears a knock off perfume that to her is just as good as the 'real stuff'.

In generations to come, if the Koreans stop copying and put together their own cohesive niche with their Lotus hired designer, it could get interesting, and benefit all of us.

PeterUbers

Wow.... You put some thought into this!! Damn realtors and their cheap perfume!!!

floridadriver

Hahaha, I know Pete.

I think I really wanted to like the Genesis more at some level. NO offense meant to realtors, nor the olfactory enabled....and no animals were harmed in the typing of my post.

PeterUbers

Lol... Funny thing is that I agree with you about the genesis...

It's like the Mazda 6 for me... The new one... When I see it or the new genesis i immediately think something really expensive like Maserati or audi... But no... It's a Hyundai or Mazda lol

StanNH

There is something about a German designed car that is just different. Of all the cars I've owned, and there have been many, the most satisfying to drive and own have been the German ones. BMW, Audi, or Mercedes, there is some intangible quality that just sets them apart from the rest.

I've owned some very good American and Japanese cars, but the ones I always remember most fondly are the German ones. If you can feel that when you test drive them, that's the choice. If not, and a car is just a car, it really doesn't matter.

c4004matic

The Genesis is a torpid clone of a Lexus which is itself torpid to begin with. All you have to do to see where Hyundai is lacking is simply take a look under the car and see all the components made of pig iron worthy of an F150. You can put lipstick on a pig but it will still be a pig. Hyundai is still a generation behind on engines, suspension and chassis development, not to mention electronic engine management systems, from the Japanese and Europeans. In electronic engine and systems controls, no one beats the Japanese. That explains a lot of the difference in reliability between Japanese and European brands. In an age where everything is controlled by electronics, they become a crucial component of reliability of all subsystems. This is my first ever owned German car except for a junkyard Passat I had when stationed in Germany many moons ago, which dissuaded me from buying a German car for 30 years, lets hope its not the last

Jinzen

I wouldn't touch a Hyundai with a 10 foot stick. The $10 Grand you save is $15 grand you lost in engineering, materials, and build quality.

Buy a used car instead if you want the space and size. How about a used Panamera or S-Class for $50k?

bzliteyear

prov1...what did you decide?
i'll do my own write up shortly as we just picked up car last night.
bottom line, tough to beat leasing a brand new 2015 4wd $43.6k MB for $330/mo + tax - or $11/day
heck, i don't think you can that deal even on a $30k bmw, acura, lexus, or audi...probably only possible on $25k passat.
PL

Glyn M Ruck

I think that companies like Toyota need to be worried by the Koreans. Since Peter Schreyer from Audi joined KIA & was subsequently made the first non Korean President on the team I think most would accept that KIA's styling has moved ahead in leaps & bounds. The Chaebol has now let him loose on the Hyundai range.

In a recent interview, Peter mentioned that he has now convinced the management that good looks are not enough. That quality, tactile feel of materials, refinement of ride & powertrain, durability are equally important. After sorting out Hyundai's styling that will be his next thrust. They are at present hiring the expertise.

Japanese auto makers beware.

The German big three have deserved brand strength & engineering that the Asians are unlikely to match.

floridadriver

Hyundai/Kia also took a Lotus engineer, who just came on recently and wasn't part of the new Genesis. I think the Koreans if they stopped trying to emulate other cars could design a car and give any current German car a run for the money. It's not happening yet, and as trite as it sounds, they need a luxury brand for more panache in this segment IMO and to drop ANY parts used in lower models. That said, I think their higher end models are used to just sell more lower ones...they're not really trying...yet.

Glyn M Ruck

My understanding is that Lotus has signed a long term agreement to aid Hyundai/KIA with suspension development.

floridadriver

Might be right on that, I thought that they contracted with Lotus to help tune the 2015 Genesis and this fall one of the Lotus designers joined them full time. Either way, IMO Genesis is not "there" yet, but it sure could be.

PeterUbers

What about the equus... Anyone ride in one? Is it worth it's price tag?

Never ever see them on the road

floridadriver

I drove it, and it's a bit dated compared to the 2015 Genesis or the 2015 Kia K900. Suffering all the same, too many snuck in cheap parts and imitation. Equus looks like great attempt at LS460...but isn't one.

Glyn M Ruck

floridadriver ~ having spent a large proportion of my career working in Southeast & East Asia I absolutely agree with you if the Koreans put their mind to it they will get it done. I have great respect for the capable people of that region. They are bright, determined, well educated with a "can do", "determined to achieve" attitude.

With their attitude & aptitude one ignores them at one's peril.

I would be more than happy to own a Benz assembled in Vietnam, Malaysia or China. Their attention to detail & pride in those plants is a pleasure to behold.

c4004matic

All you have to do is look under the hood and under the car. Old technology, crude components and materials. Hyundai can design and assemble a car but has technology that is a decade behind, for example they don't have the latest engine technology so to make more power, they simply make a bigger engine. Their suspensions are even further behind. One thing they have improved in is crafting of interiors, which are of fairly good quality but of derivative design. Their engineering is second rate and seems more attuned to meet a target rather than to produce the most refined result possible. Again if you want to know what Hyundai is all about you have to look further than the "frosting". They are not "bad" cars as they use to be a little more than a decade ago. But you get what you pay for, you are not really getting a "deal". Even traditionally strong engineering companies like Honda cannot build a decent luxury car (they cant break the chains of their original purpose, the best affordable car) so you cant really expect a company that simply makes cars as another profit sideline to make an excellent vehicle.
And yes I have seen an Equus and by golly Toyota should sue them for essentially copying the Lexus LS.
BTW I have yet to drive a Lexus I would buy, the most uninspiring, boring "transportation devices" in the universe (haven't driven an LFA, of course).

DerekACS

Made in China Mercedes ? IMO, they would never be accepted in North America or Europe !

How about Hondas made in China ? If you saw the premature rust on Honda Fits made in China and imported into Canada during the past 3 years, I don't think you would be admiring "their attention to detail & pride" !!! There is a well documented problem with rust appearing within months of delivery ! Either the steel is subpar or the rust prevention paint is missing. Either way, its a serious blow to Honda's reputation for quality products.

It may be one of the key reasons for Honda to shift MY2015 Fit production away from China to Mexico.

Eilers

I was about to write that i test drove the genesis, and found the materials too cheap and too much hard plastic. I had to look it up on google images though, so i did and decided that was the one i test drove a few months back.

Then I realised it was the Kia Optima i tested But not from the appearance of the cars, but because i remember the Kia sign for the dealer. (i pass it on my commute)

Anyway, no point to the story, other then these koreans are white goods..

One is as good as the other... I can see myself buying one, they are not bad,and good value, but blanbd as hell and shows the owner have no real taste or opinion what he drives.

I bet the convenience of dealer location decides many korean car sales. It did for me, I didn't bother go look at the Genesis, because there is no Hundaeee dealer around the corner.

c4004matic

In general where a car is assembled should have little to do with quality, IF, the company has the appropriate quality assurance to ensure that all their cars are built to specifications. New or retooled assembly facilities anywhere tend to have teething problems, however, if the company is worth its "global" salt should not lead to significant quality problems. On the other hand, it may lead to production delays since more cars will not pass QA muster after production. Traditionally Honda and Toyota have been very good at making good cars anywhere. For example I highly doubt that steel in china should vary from steel made anywhere since there is a very precise steel standard that does not vary from assembly site to site, moreover, I would bet you that most of the steel for any car is coming from China anyway since 50% of the largest steel producers are Chinese

Glyn M Ruck

Until you've been in those plants you can't comment. Then Honda has crap QC in China. They obviously have a body treatment or paint plant problem.

A Buick Regal made by Shanghai GM is a damn side better than a US built one. They've fixed all the badly finished plastic & ill fitting body parts etc.

All three of the plants mentioned do a better job than Tuscaloosa used to do of the ML. Tuscaloosa has only recently been sorted out & now has pretty good quality. For a long time SA took MLs from Austria because Tuscaloosa quality was so poor.

If I had to choose between the 3 Asian plants I would take a Benz from Vietnam. They are absolutely meticulous.

Anyway, you don't have to fear a Chinese built Benz. They can't keep up with local demand. SA is now buffering them. After we built the W204 for US & RHD markets. We switched to supply Middle East & AsiaPac with US W205 going to Tuscaloosa.

Bremen & Sindelfingen use mainly Turkish labour & have their own issues. All plants have issues. It's how they are managed that matters.

Glyn M Ruck

+1^. China does make some crap steel. But you will never see in the Caterpillar/Asiatrak plant in Tianjin as an example.

c4004matic

Absolutely, most of that crap steel goes into the rebar of all those buildings that seem to spring up from thin air! If any of those cities suffered an earthquake Id shudder at how many, if not the majority, of those buildings would flop like pancakes even if they theoretically "meet" code. Like everything in China codes are only as stringent as the bribe to ignore it.

Dr. Mike

I purchased my C300 on Sept 5, 2014. I ordered it 5 month before production. It was gotten with every option except V6 and Sunroof. The best that dealers do not talk about is the air suspension. This option actually allows the driver to set how the car handles. With out it, you have no chance. The dealers just like to push inventory. When I got the car 2 days later I had a flat. Run Flat tires were nowhere to be had for a month. In the first year I put on 23K. From Sept to May 2016 the car has lived in Service. In the last 9 months I have put on it 5800 miles. The car has been a nightmare to keep running. The major parts only come out of Germany so you wait for ever to get the car fixed. The Baumeister radio sounds great but has been replaced 3 times. The engine had one cylinder explode and half the engine was replaced. Mind you, this is just after the car had come out of the B service which goes over every system in the car and costs over $600.There is far too much electronics on the car. The distronic plus stops working enough so I don't trust the car anymore. If you take one off the lot with minimal options the car will run fine I think. If you are like me who wanted all the bells and whistles, look else ware. The ventilated leather seats in the MB are a disaster. The leather is the lowest quality ever. It does not ventilate enough to warrant $2800 extra. This was my third MB in last 11 years. I should have kept my 2009 C300 which never gave me an ounce of headaches. List price was 40,400. Mine was $56,025.00. I word to the wise. My friend at MB said that their car are depreciating 50% after 3 years because they have become a nightmare to maintain after the warranty is up.
When the car does what it is suppose to do, it's a fantastic car. I've been able to see 44 miles per gallon on the highway at 55MPH for 100 miles. The comfort is top notch. I just wish it wasn't a headache.

I have several friends that drove MB and are now in the Genesis with no complaints. Better warranty by far. Much less headaches too.

After having MB on and off since 1971, I'm cured from ever having another one.

Mike

Sma2c

I am on Merc #7 and have not seen issues like you have. Sorry you have had a bad experience, I will own another 7. As for KIA and/or Hyundai I can safely say "NEVER".